A Modular Approach To Cyborg Design

[jackfractal]

OK!

So last week I went and popped open a bunch of suggestions about various things that I’d noticed while playing as a cyborg. I realized after I’d done that, that I was probably taking the wrong approach.

I’ve written about four design rewrites for cyborgs. Most of them are elaborate and complex. I like elaborate and complex, but I also like finished. This one I’ve come up with recently is the least complicated, and probably the easiest to implement. It doesn’t require a whole lot of UI work. It should be fairly balanced, and it is the least intrusive. Cyborgs after this redesign will be familiar, but different.

What’s is the big picture?

• 
   
  
• The archetypal modules are replaced with hardpoints and module kits
• Each cyborg has several hardpoints. Round-start cyborgs get three, and they can have more attached to them by robotics after science has done some research into materials and engineering.
  
• You install module kits in hardpoints.
  
• Module kits are what give robots their tools and abilities.
  
• Module kits can be built in robotics and easily swapped out.

 

What does this do to the existing cyborg gameplay?

At a base level, not a lot. The cyborgs themselves wouldn’t be touched much. They will still have their existing strengths and weaknesses.

For round-start cyborgs, you’ll be able to pick from a list of module kits at round-start to customize your loadout. Your abilities at round-start will be similar to the ones you have now.

What does this mean for robotics?

Module reset boards would go away, and refitting a cyborg would be a more complicated task.

You will have to open the robot up, pop out their existing modules, and plug in their new ones. It shouldn’t take that long, but it will be more involved.

The existing robotic upgrades also go away, or are transformed into Kits.

Adding extra hardpoints will be more involved still. To install new hardpoints you’ll have to completely disassemble the robot (remove it’s brain) and rebuild it with a new chassis. This will take some time, but will probably make your robotic buddies very happy.

You’ll also have more opportunities for nefarious deeds if you’re an antag. If you’re thinking ‘customized assassin robot’, you’re on the right track. It may end up being possible to order very dangerous module kits using traitor up-links.

Do you have an overriding design goal for this version of cyborgs?

Yes. My design goals are:

 

• Cyborgs should be fun to play.
• Cyborgs should not ruin other people’s fun. They should be fun to play against.
  
• Cyborgs trade moment to moment versatility, and freedom of action, for the ability to be highly effective at the tasks they were designed to do.
  
• It should be possible to design a robot that is good at a given job (with the exception of Command).
  
• It should not be possible to design a robot that is good at every job.

 

Why do this? What’s the point?

The existing robotics modules are a mixed bag. Some are very strong. Some are very weak. Some are just confusing. As they’re directly associated with different departments and different tasks, its hard to talk about them individually, as they’re always compared to all the rest, and their capabilities are always attached to that of their department.

Should the security cyborg have a crowbar? I’ve seen this spawn dozen-page-long arguments. By making them modular, the kits can be assessed independently, and their balance compared holistically to how it affects all cyborgs. This should make it easier to add new abilities, and make balancing less politically fraught.

But I wouldn’t do this just to eliminate the forum arguments.

I’m interested in this because it would also give people the opportunity to mix and match their capabilities, and provide a more unique play experience for their cyborg. That's something that I'm really looking forward too

It also gives R&D and robotics more toys to play with. That’s never a bad thing.

[jackfractal]

There will be a few minor changes to basic cyborgs. They are:

 

• Rather than having lights as tools (like flashlights), cyborgs will all have ‘headlamps’ which will have their own button on the UI and will count as a robotic component (meaning they can be damaged or disabled).
  
• The robotics console will be upgraded to display health, location, and installed modules
  
• All robots will have a ‘clamp’ object, which is what lets them drag things. This clamp will open and close containers, as well as unpowered doors
• All robots will be equipped with a fire extinguisher
  
• Robots will be able to lock, unlock, open, and close their own internal compartments
  
• Robots will be significantly slowed on the asteroid. They are not designed for rough terrain.

 

The following is a list of possible modules. The design of these is extremely flexible. Feel free to propose modifications, or additions. This isn’t particularly well sorted right now, but assue that if there is no Tech Level listed then the module is available at round-start as one of the cyborgs three free modules.

Enormous list of Modules:

Available at the start of the round

Name: Standard Toolkit

Requires: None

Tools: screwdriver, wrench, crowbar, standard welder, wirecutters, multi-tool, glass storage, metal storage, engineering tape

Additional Functionality: This kit gives access to the engineering radio channel.

Name: Construction Toolkit

Requires: Standard Toolkit

Tools: magnetic gripper, cable storage, floor panel storage, rod storage, reinforced glass storage

Additional Functionality: This kit gives access to mason vision (as a UI clickable)

Name: Advanced Construction Toolkit

Requires: Construction Toolkit

Tools: plasteel storage, rapid construction device

Additional Functionality: None

Name: Breech Kit

Requires: None

Tools: metal foam spray, plastic walls, plastic doors

Additional Functionality: None

Name: Internal Storage Expansion

Requires: Any module that contains some kind of storage

Tools: None

Additional Functionality: Increases the amount of stored material.

Note: May be installed more than once.

Name: V-Tech Module

Requires: None

Tools: None

Additional Functionality: Increases speed

Note: May be installed more than once

Name: Crime Prevention Kit

Requires: None

Tools: security tpe, evidence bags, evidence storage (can hold objects in evidence bags)

Additional Functionality: This module provides security hud overlays and provides access to the security radio channel.

Name: Prisoner Processing Unit

Requires: Crime Prevention Kit

Tech Level: Engineering 4, Materials 2

Tools: criminal processing apparatus (this rapidly strips a handcuffed person of their equipment and gives them an orange jumpsuit, it bags their equipment in evidence bags, labels it, and puts it in a cardboard box)

Additional Functionality: None

Name: Detainment Kit

Requires: None

Tools: standard stun baton, standard taser, zipties

Additional Functionality: This module provides remote access to security records.

Name: Advanced Detainment Kit

Requires: Detainment Kit

Tools: recharging taser (recharges off internal battery), recharging stun baton, reinforced zipties (break like zipties, but last as long as regular handcuffs)

Additional Functionality: None

Name: Weapon Mount

Tech Level: Combat 3, Materials 3, Engineering 3

Requires: None

Tools: weapon mount (a gripper that can hold and use guns)

Additional Functionality: None

Name: Energy Emitter

Tech Level: Combat 4, Materials 3, Engineering 3, Power Storage 3

Requires: None

Tools: energy gun

Additional Functionality: None

Name: Heavy Armor

Requires: None

Tools: None

Additional Functionality: Significantly increases the amount of damage that the Armor component can take before breaking.

Name: Faraday Cage

Tech Level: Materials 4, Engineering 4, Power Storage 5

Requires: None

Tools: None

Additional Functionality: Provides immunity to EMP

Name: Rapid Light Compensation Circuit

Requires: None

Tools: None

Additional Functionality: Provides immunity to Flash weapons

Name: Maneuvering Thrusters

Tech Level: Engineering 3, Materials 2

Requires: None

Tools: gas siphon (click on a tank to transfer gas to an internal gas tank)

Additional Functionality: provides jetpack-like space maneuvreing

Name: Basic Hygiene Kit

Requires: None

Tools: soap, trash bag, light replacer

Additional Functionality: None

Name: Advanced Cleaning Kit

Requires: Basic Hygiene Kit

Tools: sign emitter, tank syphon (click on a water tank to fill internal reservoir)

Additional Functionality: provides a clickable option to clean as you walk, cleaned surfaces are made wet

Name: Spray Nozzle

Requires: None

Tools: spray nozzle (allows you to spray from an internal reservoir), tank syphon (click on a water tank to fill internal reservoir)

Additional Functionality: The spray nozzle can spray fluids from other reservoirs if the cyborg has some, such as from the Chemical Manipulation module.

Name: First Aid Kit

Requires: None

Tools: splints, ointment, bruise pack, health analyser, roller-bed rack, 3 x syringe, medical gripper (can hold blood packs, chemical bottles, pill bottles, and pills)

Additional Functionality: This module provides access to the medical radio channel and the health HUD vision overlay.

Name: Surgical Kit

Requires: None

Tools: cautery, surgical drill, fix-o-vein, hemostat, scalpel, bone-gel, retractor, bone setter, circular saw, surgical gripper (can hold bodyparts)

Additional Functionality: None

Name: Advanced Trauma Kit

Requires: First Aid Kit

Tools: advanced burn pack, advanced bruise pack, topical antitoxin, spaceacillon incubator

Additional Functionality: Replaces ointment and bruise pack

Name: Chemical Manipulation Module

Tech Level: Materials 3, Engineering 3

Requires: None

Tools: chemistry gripper (can hold beakers and other containers), internal chemical storage (can hold various chemicals, can distribute them to connected items like the syringe, held beakers, or the Spray Nozzle, chemicals do not react internally)

Additional Functionality: None

Name: Portable Cryo Preservation Chamber

Tech Level: Materials 3, Biology 3, Power storage 3, Engineering 3

Requires: First Aid Kit

Tools: portable cryo container (click to pick up a prone or willing person and store them inside you in suspension like a cryobag)

Additional Functionality: None

Name: Portable Sleeper

Tech Level: Materials 4, Biology 4, Power storage 4, Engineering 4

Requires: First Aid Kit

Tools: portable sleeper (click to pick up a prone or willing person and store them inside you as though you were a sleeper)

Additional Functionality: None

Name: Advanced Sport Multifunction Tool Arm

Tech Level: Materials 3, Engineering 3

Requires: None

Tools: advanced sport multifunction tool arm (allows you to hold, dribble, and throw a basketball)

Additional Functionality: None

Name: Synthetics Assembly Toolkit

Requires: None

Tools: robotics gripper (can hold robotics and mech parts), material feeder (can hold individual material sheets, mainly useful for feeding the fabricators), magnetic gripper

Additional Functionality: None

Name: Research and Development Toolkit

Requires: None

Tools: science gripper (can hold any object with a tech origin, HOWEVER you cannot use these items on anything other than the destructive analyzer), material feeder (can hold individual material sheets, mainly useful for feeding the fabricators), rapid part replacer, screwdriver

Additional Functionality: None

Name: Clerical Development Kit

Requires: None

Tools: pen, paperwork gripper (can hold paperwork), form printer, document sorter (acts like a folder)

Additional Functionality: None

Name: Alcohol Dispenser Kit

Requires: None

Tools: bar gripper (holds glasses, bottles of booze, and drink making supplies), lighter, drinks tray

Additional Functionality: This module provides access to the drinks dispensers.

Name: Food Preparation Kit

Requires: None

Tools: food gripper (holds food), knife, food tray

Additional Functionality: None

Name: Secondary Linguistics Circuit

Requires: None

Tools: None

Additional Functionality: Allows the cyborg to speak all languages (that’s speak, all cyborgs will retain their universal comprehension)

Name: Rock Crushing Kit

Requires: None

Tools: ore feeder (works like an ore satchel, but deposits ore into an internal compartment (or ore crate if the cyborg has a Crate Holder)), mining tool mount (allows you to hold and use a mining tool)

Additional Functionality: This module provides access to the supply radio channel and mason vision overlay.

Name: Wide Treads

Requires: None

Tools: None

Additional Functionality: Allows the robot to travel at full speed on uneven terrain.

Name: Crate Holder

Requires: None

Tools: crate loader

Additional Functionality: This module allows the robot to hold a crate inside itself.

Name: Compressed Gas Task

Requires: None

Tools: gas syphon (click on tanks to syphon gas into the internal gas tank, also works like a powered air-can for pumping air in and out from the atmosphere)

Additional Functionality: This provides a medium sized internal gas tank. The robot can clamp onto output atmos vents to fill as well as syphon gas using the syphon.

Name: PACMan Generator

Requires: None

Tools: plasma fuel intake (can click on either refined plasma or plasma ore to fill plasma storage, using refined plasma is much more efficient)

Additional Functionality: When activated, burns plasma like a PACMAN generator to recharge the cyborg’s power cell. It is not terribly efficient.

Name: S.U.P.E.R.P.A.C.M.A.N Generator

Tech Level: Programing 3, Power Storage 4, Engineering 4, Materials 4

Requires: None

Tools: uranium fuel intake (can click on either uranium plasma or uranium ore to fill uranium storage, using uranium plasma is much more efficient)

Additional Functionality: When activated, burns uranium like a S.U.P.E.R.P.A.C.M.A.N generator to recharge the cyborg’s power cell. It is not moderately efficient.

Name: M.S.P.A.C.M.A.N. Generator

Tech Level: Programing 3, Power Storage 5, Engineering 5, Materials 4

Requires: None

Tools: diamond fuel intake (can click on either diamonds or diamond ore to fill diamond storage, using refined diamonds is much more efficient)

Additional Functionality: When activated, burns diamond like a M.S.P.A.C.M.A.N. generator to recharge the cyborg’s power cell. It is extremely efficient.

Name: Backup Power Supply

Requires: None

Tools: None

Additional Functionality: Lets you have two power cells.

Name: Tesla Capacitors

Tech Level: Power Storage 5, Engineering 5, Materials 4

Requires: None

Tools: None

Additional Functionality: Allows you recharge your cell from an APC

Name: Prototype Bluespace Slingshot

Tech Level: Power Storage 3, Engineering 3, Bluespace 3

Requires: None

Tools: Imperfect bluespace slingshot (click to return to the bluespace anchor for the cost of 2000 power)

Additional Functionality: When created, this module comes with a Bluespace Anchor object (small, light). When the Bluespace slingshot is used, the cyborg is teleported back to the anchor, at which point both the anchor and the module break.

Name: Bluespace Slingshot

Tech Level: Power Storage 5, Engineering 5, Bluespace 4

Requires: None

Tools: Bluespace slingshot (click to return to the bluespace anchor for the cost of 2000 power)

Additional Functionality: When created, this module comes with a Bluespace Anchor object (small, light). When the Bluespace slingshot is used, the cyborg is teleported back to the anchor.

Name: Bluespace Manipulator

Tech Level: Power Storage 6, Engineering 6, Bluespace 6

Requires: Bluespace Slingshot

Tools: None

Additional Functionality: This module modifies the bluespace slingshot to be able to target any teleport beacon as well as their own anchor.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Guest

[LordFowl]

Would there be any visual indication of what module kits a cyborg has installed? Currently its pretty easy to tell what cyborg does what because they're neatly colour coded, however this idea seems to refute the outright idea of departmental usefulness, preferring role specialization. Since this seems to be an entire overhaul of the cyborg system, a potential idea is to have player select from one or a list of base models, and each module addition applies a graphical change to the base model, depending on the module.

Lacking any information on module specifics however, I can't really say much about this idea. To me the cyborg system has always been too simple, and adding some complexity and potential tact could be refreshing for the role. However, the danger is of course adding modules that are too useless, or too globally useful.

[jackfractal]

I haven't really figured out how to do the visuals yet. I might have a way where your modules would affect your colours, but there's no easy way to colour-ramp things in byond, so making it work could be a little tricky.

I hear what you're saying though. You're going to be able to identify modules by Examine, and I'm really going to try to make their sprites at least indicate their department. Or, at least, they should indicate their department, I think I'll make them re-paintable using the IPC spraycans (assuming I can get the icon stuff to work, it might be too fiddly).

[jackfractal]

Hokay! All the modules are up. That took longer than expected...

[Dreamix]

This looks awesome, but it may broke custom synthetic sprites. Aren't you taking too much on your shoulders? I mean, you already said that you will do This and This and other stuff. And don't you still need to write a coder/developer application?

[Xelnagahunter]

Jack, I love your motivation and your idea is amazing. I really do think this overhaul is something useful and refreshing and would get me to set my android job preference a bit higher. But like Dreamix said, you should slow down. I know you are excited about your new position as Synthetic Lore Person, I am too, but don't let yourself get burned out in just a few months. Also, I'd love to see you pop out a coder app, Scopes can probably use the assistance and we've already seen that you can make code acceptable for the server with very few conflicts.

As for some critique on this idea in general:

It has a lot going for it. It's going to require more selections at creation and all that. I almost want to say that various chassis types should somewhat limit what kits a unit can have, this prevents someone from picking a medical bot chassis and playing an mineborg. Essentially give them the ability to chose their chassis and color and make an expendable device that grants them a chassis change if they want to change kits, or make certain kits force a chassis change and they look like a default borg when they have no kits. They still chose their chassis form the list, but they can't roll around looking wrong for the parts that they have.

It's just an idea, probably under thought and whatnot, but in my head it seems clear to me.

[jackfractal]

@Dreamix. Eeeeh. I'm not too worried.

The first link is... well it's done. I mean, I haven't made a pull request with it yet because I honestly haven't seen MALF being played much recently and I kinda forgot about it. Sorry. I know it was your idea. I'll run it by Scopes today.

The second link is a list of possible ideas, not firm project designs. I was trying to gauge interest to see what I should work on next, and nobody seemed particularly interested in anything on that list (except you, and you expressed no particular preference), so I stuck all those things on the back-burner.

I might get back to them. I might not.

@Xelnagahunter

I've been on vacation, and I'm going back to work tomorrow () so I wanted to use some of my free time this week to actually write this idea down. Like I said, I've actually written similar ideas for redesigning robots about three other times, but I never posted them anywhere because I always ended up deciding that the end product would be too complicated.

This one isn't that complicated. I'm not going to argue that it wont be time consuming, but the end product isn't any more elaborate then what we have now.

Regarding the sprites:

This is going to be a challenge. I think at first we might see a significantly reduced set of sprites, but with the ability to change their colors. I have to do some testing, but I think it's possible to separate sprites into chunks, and then apply a ramp to each chunk, so each sprite might have a primary, secondary, and tertiary color ramp, which would be determined by your paint.

It would be possible to do this to the custom sprites as well, if I'm right in how I think this will work. It would just mean desaturating them and then going in and doing masks for the different sections.

One thing to remember is that there is a subtle conceptual shift here from how cyborgs have worked before. There wouldn't be 'medibots' or 'mineborgs' anymore. Not as strict categories. There would just be 'robots' with a variety of different tools.

For example, you might have a first-response robot who specializes in getting people out of dangerous areas. They'd have a breach kit (to prevent depressurization), a vtec module (so they can move fast), and a cryo container (so they can rescue people).

That's sort of a medical robot, but it has no tools to treat injuries. All it does is rescue people. What department does it go in? It has some engineering style tools, is it an engineering robot?

Or how about a more advanced robot, one with four hardpoints, designed to explore space. It might have a jetpack (so it can fly), a weapon mount (so it can defend itself), a crate holder (so it can retrieve interesting things it finds) and a bluespace slingshot (so it can be recovered in the case of accident). Which department does it fit in?

See? While I designed the list of modules to allow for people to easily replicate their experience of playing with one of the old modules, you can also make some rather esoteric robots that don't easily fit into existing categories.

[Reyjakai]

I'm a huge fan of this especially because it will make robotics more interesting and useful throughout the round. Once you've made a few mechs (which you can do really quickly) and a few androids, there's not really /that/ much that you can do. Occasionally people come in with damaged robotic limbs, but most of the time that's a lesser issue. Other than that, I think customization like this would be ideal. No kit seems overpowered, and they seem like they can be designed to do a specific kit. Additionally, we could cater cyborgs to more specific jobs. This also could differentiate the good roboticists from the bad ones.

[I_speak_money]

Do it. Just do it! I've always felt that Robotics was too simple and that it was this here and that there. This added complexity will make it fun for both the cyborgs trying different combinations as well as the robotics operating on them. As for the indicating visuals, I'd recommend the complete re-sprite of the cyborg. Instead of whole colors, they are different blocks : yellow block (engineering), red block (Security), blue block (Medical), et cetera. And each piece, depending on how big the chassis is to fit all the modules, can be big or small. So rather than a whole red or whole blue cyborg, it would be like: Oh, I see a cyborg that's mainly yellow and grey. That one won't be useful. There's another one over there that looks like a rainbow. Should probably ask him for help.

In regards to the modules, I'd only like to suggest the generators not only being useful to the cyborg, but to the players. Have the tinbox turn on its generator, and plug him right into the APC. In times where the station is all black and there's no power, you can find a cyborg and have him or her plug itself right into the APC. It would basically be a special type of power cell, but instead of a power cell, it's the cyborg's extended power plug inside.

Keep up the good work. Love the ideas you're pushing forward.

[LordFowl]

There is one thematic issue that applies to both lore and gameplay mechanics that I've noticed in your module kits, and that is the existence of lethal modules. According to what I know of general synthetic lore across most sci-fi universes, robots (especially in the early years of their existence) are not afforded much trust by the general populace and in some cases even corporations themselves. Allowing them to have lethal weapons outright should probably be a concern. So for your module kits I would have their special energy gun be unable to go into lethal mode. This of course provides more value to emagged cyborgs, or malf cyborgs, as their energy guns could then be hacked into lethality. You should also take into account the usefulness of each module if a cyborg is emagged. Modules like tool kits or RCD's probably don't need to be changed, but modules like service or clerical modules should probably gain a darker edge if a cyborg is emagged/malf.

[jackfractal]

@LordFowl

So! I had a good think about this, very good comments, made me evaluate some stuff.

First, the question of the weaponry modules. While you're right that in a lot of science fiction universes that tell stories about robots, robots are not given lethal weaponry. Usually, in such cases, there's the three laws of robotics thing, or something similar. There are a lot of universes where they are given guns though. Star Wars and Star Trek for example.

Ghost in the Shell, Terminator, Robocop, The Matrix, and Mass Effect as well. Though in most of those examples, robots having guns goes rather poorly for everyone involved.

In our case, in the Aurora canon (both the one that I wrote and the one that it replaced), cyborgs have existed for hundreds of years. People have not only grown used to them, they've grown bored with them.

AI is more recent, and for some (notably the Skrell) more worrying, but even there, we have in-game examples of robots with lethal weapons, those pesky laser wielding drones that keep escaping and menacing the hard-working crew of the Aurora.

So I think robots and cyborgs should be able to have lethal weapons mounted on them. If you look though, neither the Weapon Mount or the Energy Projector are available from round-start. They need Research, which means they'll need to be installed during the round.

That takes me to your second concern, hacking.

I'm kind of opposed to the idea of emags creating matter. It doesn't make much sense, so my tentative plan for emags if for them to not provide robots with additional tools, or for it to alter existing tools in any significant way. A hacked robot in that case is still useful, but it's not necessarily useful for killing. Remember, even a hacked bartender still gives you universal access, status alert's, and the ability to lock down rooms.

If you want them to be useful for killing, then I'm going to put a few violence-based modules for purchase in the traitor uplinks. Probably an energy sword, a laser, and maybe some other things (if you have any ideas, please post 'em) and they'll be relatively cheap, as you need to hack and modify a robot to be able to use them.

Robots built for nefarious deeds will be another matter entirely. If you have access to a subverted robot, a mech lab, and a little imagination, you can make some veeeery nasty robots indeed if you put your mind too it.

[LordFowl]

But the emag shouldn't create matter, it should disable the safeties on a tool altogether. Regardless of what your lore says, people in-game typically trend to contempt to outright distrust of the borg and AI. I won't comment further about the lore-making process, but it should model itself off the opinions of the staff on station, because that's the only real window we have into the universe. Trying to dictate new opinions probably won't work out, not smoothly at least.

As long as this new system still provides versatility and use to the traitors, and makes borgs tempting targets, I'm okay though.

[jackfractal]

But the emag shouldn't create matter, it should disable the safeties on a tool altogether. Regardless of what your lore says, people in-game typically trend to contempt to outright distrust of the borg and AI. I won't comment further about the lore-making process, but it should model itself off the opinions of the staff on station, because that's the only real window we have into the universe. Trying to dictate new opinions probably won't work out, not smoothly at least.

As long as this new system still provides versatility and use to the traitors, and makes borgs tempting targets, I'm okay though.

 

The reason I brought up the whole 'emags create matter' thing is that historically, they have. The laser gun that the security cyborgs get is created whole cloth. The laser sword that the Standard cyborgs get is likewise. The rubber stamp that the clerical cyborgs get, ditto (that one is my personal favorite).

It might be interesting if individual modules had emag effects, but I'm not sure which ones it would apply too. Do you have any suggestions?

Regarding the whole 'robots aren't trusted' thing. That hasn't been my experience, but then again I play a ridiculous character, so maybe I just don't notice it.

Here are my reasons for why this isn't an issue:

 

• we have a concrete and long extant example, in-game, of robots with lethal weapons (the drone event enemies)
• there is no compelling in-fiction reason why it should be impossible to install weaponry on a robot given the level of technology available on SS13
  
• robots hacked by the syndicate have always had lethal weaponry (except those adorable clerical cyborgs I mentioned before)
  
• robots are already issued lethal weapons as a matter of course (IPC security guards during crisis situations)

 

So, I don't think the possibility of adding weaponry to a robot during a round is that big a deal from an immersion standpoint.

[swat43]

I dont feel like crushing this idea, which does seem interesting, but... why make to much complexity on cyborgs, whenthe lsit you gave us could be rather.. halved or reduces, as to why? Because, even if i do like the idea of cyborgs treating wounded, and do surgery at thesame time is cool and all, than may as well replace medical with just cybrogs. Now of course that was just small salty comment, but on the modules wise also, it would take tons of resources to even make one, and what fears me most that, incase the unit is damaged completelty that needs immidiate repairs, it's another slap on resources.

Okay the those issues can be dealt with.... but... has any one wondered on how to improve/fix mechs?

Not to get off topic, but i feel now that robotics will soon have to leave 'mechs aside and just leave them in the list, because reasons and NO ON NEEDS THEM LATELY (except rarely one miner or medical asks for one or if there's going to be some on in the first place to use one). I lately as a roboticist player feel useless after i am done with maintnance on units and making few JOHN CENA cleany bots....

And right now, the problem with units is, that half modules have less usefulness than the ones who can do something. What i suggest is, dont make to much complexity not only for our short coder staff and to our roboticist, and combine/tweak their purpose and their own tools.

[Reyjakai]

I dont feel like crushing this idea, which does seem interesting, but... why make to much complexity on cyborgs, whenthe lsit you gave us could be rather.. halved or reduces, as to why? Because, even if i do like the idea of cyborgs treating wounded, and do surgery at thesame time is cool and all, than may as well replace medical with just cybrogs. Now of course that was just small salty comment, but on the modules wise also, it would take tons of resources to even make one, and what fears me most that, incase the unit is damaged completelty that needs immidiate repairs, it's another slap on resources.

Okay the those issues can be dealt with.... but... has any one wondered on how to improve/fix mechs?

Not to get off topic, but i feel now that robotics will soon have to leave 'mechs aside and just leave them in the list, because reasons and NO ON NEEDS THEM LATELY (except rarely one miner or medical asks for one or if there's going to be some on in the first place to use one). I lately as a roboticist player feel useless after i am done with maintnance on units and making few JOHN CENA cleany bots....

And right now, the problem with units is, that half modules have less usefulness than the ones who can do something. What i suggest is, dont make to much complexity not only for our short coder staff and to our roboticist, and combine/tweak their purpose and their own tools.

 

Mechs have always been a bit of a problem, as 2/5 of the mechs we have can't be built without permission from the HoS/Captain, the firefighter can't be built at round start and is never used by Engineering/Atmos, especially since it's useless without an RCD, Ripleys have become irrelevant with the large mining drills, and nobody used the odysseus to begin with. These mechs are all very useful, but they aren't efficient /enough/ to be worth making. If mechs were buffed, the might become overpowered, but they also might actually be built again.

With that in mind, buffing cyborgs in this manner would be huge thing that you could do to make robotics relevant again, and, in general, make one part of research better. There's no reason to complain about one element of the game being improved for the better simply because it would take some rebalancing to get everything to mesh well together again. Also, I agree that the list could be shortened, but maybe more customization options would be ideal for robotics and cyborgs in general.

Another point is the balancing of these kits. In an ideal world, all kits would be equally useful, and therefore equally picked. I don't see a problem making a large number of kits, and revisiting the ones that aren't picked as often or not at all. Just my opinions on the matter, and I don't even play cyborg.

[swat43]

I agree rey. The problems with mechs is, they do not have the 'complexity' as cyborgs do. Or in short, no real modifications. I did propose this sort of idea but now its in the sea of suggestions that is now long forgotten.(idea on making them more or less modifiable)

And yes, cyborgs were always big part of the robotics, but even though if we do have such change implemented, all that is going to change is the time wasted longer just to build and equip one unit. But hey, those are only thoughts on this idea.

Balance wise.. it's a tough call. You either have to make every kit perfect and it will already be most used and powerfull for units agaisnt crew if malf, or make it semi decent and still have people ask for more. I am not bothered really by balance yet. I just shut up and repair and maintain

[Xelnagahunter]

A huge thing for me is that the robotics team can easily make everything withing the first 30 minutes, provided a fast research team or a solid cargo team. This means there is a lot of downtime afterwards where they are waiting for robots to want repairs or upgrades or people with injured prosthetics and the like. Making robotics take a bit longer provides that extra boost. As far a resources, robotics should use a lot and should be something people want to get stocked up. Want a mech? Stock robotics. Want a cyborg? Stock robotics. Want to make a friend? Stock robotics. Then it comes down to things being ordered. Robotics currently makes mechs because they are bored, not because the mech is needed/wanted. IF they have other things to do, there won't be 12 ripleys on station anymore.

[swat43]

Robotics currently makes mechs because they are bored, not because the mech is needed/wanted. IF they have other things to do, there won't be 12 ripleys on station anymore.

 

And you've stated nicely the reason why robotics is even than, if the cyborg modular approach suggestion does come in play and is implemted, and even if the time will be longer to maintain everything, the robotics will still either be bored to death in waiting, or they won't be preety much functional with out the resources, due to high cost to make said cyborg. Besides, what's funny is, a small cyborg chasis now takes nearly the same ammount of metal as a standart ripley, atleast it doesn't eat glass, which is good.

[jackfractal]

has any one wondered on how to improve/fix mechs?

 

Hmmmm....

Name: Cockpit

Tech Required: Biological 3

Requires: None

Tools: None

Additional Functionality: Allows a regular crewmember to enter the robot and drive it around. Provides a small air-tank and isolated atmosphere. Does not cost a module slot. Cannot be installed in robots with brains. Does not grant all access.

Name: Bipedal Locomotion Adaptation

Tech Required: Engineering 4

Requires: Cockpit

Tools: None

Additional Functionality: Allows the driver to access their hands and their backpack from inside the robot suit.

 

A huge thing for me is that the robotics team can easily make everything within the first 30 minutes, provided a fast research team or a solid cargo team. This means there is a lot of downtime afterwards where they are waiting for robots to want repairs or upgrades or people with injured prosthetics and the like.

 

Hmmmmmmm!

Name: Drone Remote

Tech Required: Data 4, Bluespace 2

Requires: None

Tools: None

Additional Functionality: Allows the user of a drone control computer to control the robot remotely. Cannot be installed in robots with brains.

[Xelnagahunter]

Name: Drone Remote

Tech Required: Data 4, Bluespace 2

Requires: None

Tools: None

Additional Functionality: Allows the user of a drone control computer to control the robot remotely. Cannot be installed in robots with brains.

I'm down for this. I really like the idea of giving robotics the ability to remotely use a ripley to mine some minerals for science.

[Dreamix]

I would love this, especially the mech-thing. And balance is not a problem with only three mounts, and this really shows how borgs are designed to do one/two/three particular things, not much more.

I like how "Advanced Trauma Kit" makes medical borgs less useless than they are now. "Chemical Manipulation Module" - when you need a chemist borg to give you some acid for boards (and can't access the outpost for some reason).

I also like how a medical borg can change from a "constantly-moving-field-EMT" to "medbay-never-leaving-nurse" with just one module changed.

Or how you can make an assassin droid, with only a emagg, "Faraday Cage", "Rapid Light Compensation Circuit" and a "Weapon Mount" (with some researching).

Want a Odysseus with just three modules? "Portable Sleeper", "Chemical Manipulation Module" (for the syringe gun, don't forget to ask RnD for one) and a "Cockpit".

Want a Ripley? "Rock Crushing Kit", "Crate Holder" and a "Cockpit". Add a "PACMan Generator" so you can recharge it with things you mine. Just don't forget to ask RnD for a drill, because you need to attach one to your mining tool mount.

Maybe, at the start of the round there's no roboticists, nor scientists? Why not sacrifice one borg and make him select "Synthetics Assembly Toolkit", "Research and Development Toolkit" and "Advanced Sport Multifunction Tool Arm", because why not?

You remember that suggestion about making a mech that could handle explosives? Maybe, you need a bomb-defusing robot? " Standard Toolkit" (to defuse), "Crate Holder" (to transport to a safe place) and a "Drone Remote" (so no one will get hurt)? You can even construct a drone remote control console in warden's office, so he can defuse bombs from his own office.

Engineers need some help, because someone is making lots of breaches and exploding the station? Doable.

Need a synthetic warden? Doable. Chief? Bartender? A fecking basketball player? Doable.

Maybe you want to build an independent outpost filled with only-borgs? One robotics-research borg, one miner-engineer borg, one security borg, and you can make them build even more posibrains with RnD. And that was just with three starting mount points. Imagine the possibilities!

[Guest]

These hardpoint modules are incredibly in-depth, it reminds me a lot of the Powered Power Armor mod from Fallout 3/NV.

I look forward to seeing the PR, this is really interesting, cyborgs sorely need more gameplay depth.

[Fire and Glory]

As someone who plays both Roboticist and Cyborg a lot, I am very interested in this, and give it my support.

[Gallic]

At first I was skeptical. But this seems like another really cool idea. Maybe we should work another amazing feat here.

My main concerns are for people who are familiar with other servers coming here. We've already got the shell/borg construction making some new roboticists a little peeved, and now we'd have people getting all mad cause they didn't read the borg memo.

Also, how would icons be picked?

And if someone's in a robot suit, do they get access to the robot's tools, or does the robot need to do that for them?... Can they even use them?