Staff Complain: Garnascus

[Dreamix]

BYOND Key: Dreamixpl

Staff BYOND Key: Garnascus

Reason for complaint: Inappropriate assessment of the situation. I am displeased with Garnascus not giving me a permission to suicide. As I earlier said, "it could be a great RP opportunity for them to understand what they did wrong, and for the HoS to understand that they were really incompetent".

Evidence/logs/etc: In a spoiler, only logs from my PM's with Garnascus. I highlighted underlined the most importants PM's. For some reason, I cannot underline/bold-text only a part of these logs, when I try, everything bolds/underlines. My comments written after the round are double bracketed.

 

• HELP: Dreamixpl/(Vexillarius): Permission to kill myself? IC events, I was really doing everything I could, ranging from setting up records, to checking cameras, and when I only asked other officers to do something, they started insulting me. I already complained to the HoS. My character cannot stand that much incompetence, and lack of communication over security channel was the worst. - heard by 5 non-AFK admins.
• Garnascus/() called dibs on Dreamixpl/(Vexillarius)'s adminhelp!
  
• PM: Garnascus/()->Dreamixpl/(Vexillarius): can you give me a bit more details on the insults? your character would kill themselves simply being surrounded by incomptency?
  
• PM: Dreamixpl/(Vexillarius)->Garnascus/(): "Winston Carton [security] asks, "Seriously. The two of us are doing all the arrest, all the processing and most of the brigging. You can't fucking change a record when I tell you the crimes but you can yell at us from your offices to do it?"# "How about you go out and get stabbed with a screwdriver next call. Asshole." "Vex. I hope you get scrapped." "Vex. I hope you get scrapped."
  
• PM: Dreamixpl/(Vexillarius)->Garnascus/(): Except, I asked them to change these records, like 5-10 minutes before they finally answered to me.
  
• PM: Dreamixpl/(Vexillarius)->Garnascus/(): And, yes. My character is an IPC warden. It would kill itself, after being surrounded by incompetency.
  
• PM: Garnascus/()->Dreamixpl/(Vexillarius): i mean, this is absolutely some heavy IC conflict but i just dont see it as a reason for suicide man... it also looks like security was being ovewhelemed at the time
  
• PM: Dreamixpl/(Vexillarius)->Garnascus/(): No. It was not overwhelmed. There was only one permabrigged prisoner, and another one. During the whole round.
  
• PM: Garnascus/()->Dreamixpl/(Vexillarius): i see, well im sorry man but i see reason for your character to be frustrated and perhaps elevate a situation if you desired but suicide? no i dont think this is a good reason. if you are truly frustrated with the round you could always cryo instead
  
• PM: Dreamixpl/(Vexillarius)->Garnascus/(): I am not frustrated. My character is. Really frustrated. Carton started to insult me, and the HoS. For no reason.
  
• PM: Garnascus/()->Dreamixpl/(Vexillarius): i understand that but its not a good enough reason im sorry
  
• PM: Dreamixpl/(Vexillarius)->Garnascus/(): My character was created to be "the most efficient warden". That is some major incompetence.
  
• PM: Dreamixpl/(Vexillarius)->Garnascus/(): ... I disagree...
  
• PM: Garnascus/()->Dreamixpl/(Vexillarius): i mean... i just cant see it man, efficient warden or not you cant make up a backstory like that and then kill yourself when others dont meet your standards
  
• PM: Dreamixpl/(Vexillarius)->Garnascus/(): "kill yourself when others dont meet your standards#" Did you even heard what I said? My character was forced to work around these incompetent officers. And when my character complained, others started insulting it, even telling him to die.
  
• PM: Garnascus/()->Dreamixpl/(Vexillarius): wouldnt a truly efficient warden attempt to fix the issues? i dont know if suicide is very efficient
  
• PM: Dreamixpl/(Vexillarius)->Garnascus/(): No. That is a warden, not a leader or a commander. When he tried to "fix" these issues, it was met with insults.
  
• PM: Garnascus/()->Dreamixpl/(Vexillarius): ive been shown you may have had the conflict coming due to barking orders and lack of communication? this seems pretty IC to me
  
• PM: Dreamixpl/(Vexillarius)->Garnascus/(): It is IC, I wanted to IC-ly suicide, with last letter, and stuff. And it could be a great RP opportunity for them to understand what they did wrong, and for the HoS to understand that they were really incompetent. Now it is too late, anyway. Now, please don't tell me that suicide is permitted only if you have a reason, after you denied my reasons. "Suicide is generally a NO, unless you have a believable reason for it and do it in a realistic way"
  
• PM: Garnascus/()->Dreamixpl/(Vexillarius): suicide is permissable with good reason when you arent an antag yes and after investigating the issue i found your reason to be lacking,
  
• PM: Dreamixpl/(Vexillarius)->Garnascus/(): And I disagreed, and tried to reason with you. you still disagreed.
  
• PM: Garnascus/()->Dreamixpl/(Vexillarius): because i still disagree with it, im sorry but its my call to asses it
  
• PM: Dreamixpl/(Vexillarius)->Garnascus/(): That's all.
  
• HELP: Dreamixpl/(Vexillarius): Would it be possible to get some help with extracting logs from this round? I need only my logs of PM'ing with an admin, without IC and OOC. - heard by 6 non-AFK admins.

 

Additional remarks: Also, if "Suicide is generally a NO, unless you have a believable reason for it and do it in a realistic way" what would be a good reason to kill my character? A SSL-class drama?

Keep in mind that it is not a complaint about Josh or Jennale, who were playing Carton and Reanne, respectively.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

. . . You're serious?

lol!

This isn't even the worst stuff you're faced with. This is every day IC verbal shitposting. Suicide isn't justified by frustration.

[Jennalele]

I am going to be very, very blunt. In my honest opinion? Your character brought this upon themselves by demanding the rest of security hyperaccelerate to your demands, instead of you understanding that every person has their own limitations and faults. Efficiency is not about what is best and fastest for you: It's about what makes the unit as a whole ( In this case, Security ) work best. Shouting at people to work faster, get things done, and otherwise shouting from the top of the sled shouting 'MUSH!' is a terrible way to assert authority and be respected in the workplace. Likewise, Vex was not without his passive aggressive complaints. He wanted every little detail done 'just so,' and because he didn't get things exactly his way, he threw a tantrum. So yes, he was thusly insulted by exasperted officers that were tired of dealing with his childishness. Perhaps these insults were rash, but they were not entirely unwarranted. What IS unwarranted is the fact that your character would have wished to terminate itself on the simple grounds of being insulted over their tantrum.

[Garnascus]

In the interest of transparency this post is gonna be a bit long as i want to fully explain my reasoning here. So lets start at the top then. you wanted to commit suicide, you wanted to destroy your character due to IC reasons. The official server stance on this is that its ALMOST always a bad idea for a non-antag to commit suicide and that you should always ahelp before you do. You followed the rules correctly and did indeed ahelp about it.

So why do we have this rule? and why does it appear to be so vague about when you CAN kill yourself? Well lets examine the average IC individual as stated in the rules. You are an employee of nanotrasen and are of sound mind and reasonable disposition and relatively free of mental deficiencies. we would not for example allow a character with a large PTSD backstory come onto the station and then commit suicide after hearing some gun shots. We might however allow a suicide during an antag round after a character witnessed two of their friends being murdered/linged and had to deal with some tramatic situations such as hostages/blackmailing. The long and short of it is it takes an incredible amount to push any character over the edge, while your backstory can have a little influence perhaps it cannot be one of the major reasons i feel.

So lets examine what you had happen IC, you played the warden and told me you were the most efficient warden ever designed and as such wanted to commit suicide because you felt wronged, and insulted by the officers who you were trying to help. In reality it looked like to me from my investigation you also had a hand in this conflict. You barked orders at them and answered the insults given to you. having a reason to commit suicide be "show them what they did wrong" is simply not reasonable. nor does this conflict warrant a suicide.

[Dreamix]

I am going to be very, very blunt. In my honest opinion? Your character brought this upon themselves by demanding the rest of security hyperaccelerate to your demands, instead of you understanding that every person has their own limitations and faults. Efficiency is not about what is best and fastest for you: It's about what makes the unit as a whole ( In this case, Security ) work best. Shouting at people to work faster, get things done, and otherwise shouting from the top of the sled shouting 'MUSH!' is a terrible way to assert authority and be respected in the workplace. Likewise, Vex was not without his passive aggressive complaints. He wanted every little detail done 'just so,' and because he didn't get things exactly his way, he threw a tantrum. So yes, he was thusly insulted by exasperted officers that were tired of dealing with his childishness. Perhaps these insults were rash, but they were not entirely unwarranted. What IS unwarranted is the fact that your character would have wished to terminate itself on the simple grounds of being insulted over their tantrum.

I just tried to play a good warden, with shouting over comms how prisoners are doing (when releasing and incarcerating them), properly processing and brigging them, updating records, keeping track of evidence, prisoners, weapons from the armoury, officers's locations, and generally being "professional". I now understand that I may have been too overzealous as Vex. Thank you for your opinion, honesty is never unwanted. And yes, these insults were a bit too rough.

 

In the interest of transparency this post is gonna be a bit long as i want to fully explain my reasoning here. So lets start at the top then. you wanted to commit suicide, you wanted to destroy your character due to IC reasons. The official server stance on this is that its ALMOST always a bad idea for a non-antag to commit suicide and that you should always ahelp before you do. You followed the rules correctly and did indeed ahelp about it.

Indeed.

 

So why do we have this rule? and why does it appear to be so vague about when you CAN kill yourself? Well lets examine the average IC individual as stated in the rules. You are an employee of nanotrasen and are of sound mind and reasonable disposition and relatively free of mental deficiencies. we would not for example allow a character with a large PTSD backstory come onto the station and then commit suicide after hearing some gun shots. We might however allow a suicide during an antag round after a character witnessed two of their friends being murdered/linged and had to deal with some tramatic situations such as hostages/blackmailing. The long and short of it is it takes an incredible amount to push any character over the edge, while your backstory can have a little influence perhaps it cannot be one of the major reasons i feel.

That is a good explanation. Thank you.

 

So lets examine what you had happen IC, you played the warden and told me you were the most efficient warden ever designed and as such wanted to commit suicide because you felt wronged, and insulted by the officers who you were trying to help. In reality it looked like to me from my investigation you also had a hand in this conflict. You barked orders at them and answered the insults given to you. having a reason to commit suicide be "show them what they did wrong" is simply not reasonable. nor does this conflict warrant a suicide.

Alright. That is a good explanation and reasoning, much, much better than "i understand that but its not a good enough reason im sorry".

After reconsideration, I now know that I did not provided Garnascus with good reasoning, and that a mix of overreaction and knowledge of only one side of the conflict seized me. I will try to improve my character. An admin/forum moderator may now "leave it open for some time, and then lock and archive it".

[Guest]

An admin/forum moderator may now "leave it open for some time, and then lock and archive it".

Good to hear, erm... leaving the topic open for some time(24hours) and then locking and archiving.

[Garnascus]

Ill try to communicate things a bit better in the future, Pm's can be kinda inefficient to explain vague concepts like this one. regardless thats my job as a moderator. Hopefully there are no hard feelings.

[Doomberg]

Will be locking & archiving since it seems this is settled.