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Staff Complaint - VikingPingvin


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BYOND Key: FFrances

Staff BYOND Key: VikingPingvin

Reason for complaint: Being overly confrontational, adopting an "Us vs. Them" mentality, and displaying overall poor judgement.


Evidence/logs/etc:


It's pretty hard to give file and categorize every incident I have under an exact tag, but I'll try my best to do so here.


I've tried to write this entire complaint as neutrally as possible; there is no intent to be patronizing, but do consider the events I present here are presented under a bad light because they are things I consider bad. I have no intent to belittle or ridicule anyone involved.


Exhibit A:

 

Over my latest stint on the server, I spent a few weeks playing chucklefuck/joke characters. I've had several run-ins with Viking over that time, during which he seemed to prove he didn't have a clear ability to explain exactly why he had issues with my actions. Rather than telling me my characters were too silly, he contacted me (along with another player, Halorocks22) over several "non-incidents" (basically situations which could've easily been established as permissible within the rules after a short explanation) and proceeded to fuel long, drawn-out arguments through a refusal to make any concessions or see any points presented.


The most salient of these conversations can be found below, through which Viking:

  • Contacts me because of issues he had, then drops the ahelp mid-conversation because he didn't feel like talking to me anymore (which he outright stated)
  • Refuses to explain himself when I ask him for clarifications on said issues
  • Demonstrates poor judgement by trying to argue the validity of an issue on the sole basis that a player got upset, rather than looking at the validity of the issue in relation to server rules & general game intent
  • Repeatedly starts new points then drops them on a whim when I attempt to reason back
  • Accuses me of causing an issue I wasn't responsible for
  • Vehemently refuses to apologize about having accused me of said issue, going out of his way to avoid having to do so

 

http://pastebin.com/Bd6Qzvhp

(pastebin link for now, might format later but this post is long enough as it is)

 

Exhibit B:

 

Viking does not seem to have an accurate understanding of the situations he is confronted with. On a previous complaint I made, a different user posted an explanation irrelevant to the complain, which Viking shortly thereafter deemed to be a perfect explanation, despite the target of the complaint himself stating said explanation was not relevant in this case.


At another point, when attempting to establish a portrait of my character to another user, Viking associated the aforementioned complaint with a completely unrelated issue - I have no idea how. (The complaint was about metacommunication, whereas the other incident - one I never made a complaint for - had to do with me and Halo chucklefucking as chemists.) Through this, I believe he demonstrated he was capable of passing a harsh judgement on my person based on information he could not remember properly and accurately, despite being involved in both incidents. (The whole thing might've simply been a misphrasing on his part, however - I have no way to confirm as I wasn't present during the conversation to correct him or ask for clarification.)


Although I don't have further evidence to provide for this, most of my recent conversations with Viking have been equally nebulous, and it has been extremely difficult to gauge what his official intent was as a member of staff. Also worthy of note (in the conversation posted above) is the inferred statement that Viking dislikes me for arguing back with him and making him consider viewpoints different from his own.

 

Exhibit C:

 

This conversation between Viking and Thundy, concerning Thundy's moderator application:

https://gyazo.com/d1c5b220e401a71c87e03be602a98e9f

https://gyazo.com/cd37a25f8b12f96b52f6a0aee1ffe87d

https://gyazo.com/967f345b5be23a052171b1baef9c8d18

https://gyazo.com/bade43fb109b3ad39b49b4cc6dc40b0c




From this, two points:

 

  • Viking seems to have developed a bias against another previous mod applicant for, among other things, making posts in a past complain of mine which could hardly be conceived as anything else than neutral. (Here are the posts from Garnascus Viking is referencing, for comparison.) This, combined with the fact that Viking seemed to be rather obviously expecting Thundy to react negatively to the behavior he presented in that discussion (essentially as some kind of test) makes it seem like he's very pressed to have staff applicants agree with the current administration at all costs. Also relating to my complaints against Viking's judgement, it is worth noting that in that conversation, he states he did not trust Thundy to handle problems he never gave her a chance to handle... because he's never seen her handle them. (Though it should also be noted the reason why it's brought up is because he's apologizing for it.)
     
  • I am under the strong impression Viking holds a grudge against me, which would serve as a justification to his actions. He appears to describe me as some "blight upon the server", which needs to be removed or managed. Rather than attempting to engage in constructive dialogue with me, Viking seems content with trying to alienate me while ignoring my own attempts to reach out to him.

 

Additional remarks:


The incidents between me and Viking aren't the target of this complaint; rather, his general demeanor is. I personally have no opinion of Viking whatsoever (negative or positive, save for the fact that I think what he has done is the mark of a poor admin). I'm not mad at him, I don't really care what he thinks of me, and I haven't even had to interact with him in the past month (but I was waiting for the mod trials to end before bringing this up as mod applications have a history of being denied for being involved in drama).


My issue relates more to a kind of moderating where I feel like people don't really think about what they're doing. They develop grudges against users because they feel like that's the right thing to do, they get mad at people when they should be trying to solve problems with them, and so on. As a mod, I was essentially taught by the admins to rule with an iron fist and it's what I see a lot of people continue to do to this day. There's honestly a problem when your default stance is to assume your users are against you and that you need to either scare or beat people into following the rules. I'm not saying all staff are like this but some of them are.

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BYOND Key: FFrances

Staff BYOND Key: VikingPingvin

Reason for complaint: Being overly confrontational, adopting an "Us vs. Them" mentality, and displaying overall poor judgement.


Evidence/logs/etc:


It's pretty hard to give file and categorize every incident I have under an exact tag, but I'll try my best to do so here.


I've tried to write this entire complaint as neutrally as possible; there is no intent to be patronizing, but do consider the events I present here are presented under a bad light because they are things I consider bad. I have no intent to belittle or ridicule anyone involved.


Exhibit A:

 

Over my latest stint on the server, I spent a few weeks playing chucklefuck/joke characters. I've had several run-ins with Viking over that time, during which he seemed to prove he didn't have a clear ability to explain exactly why he had issues with my actions. Rather than telling me my characters were too silly, he contacted me (along with another player, Halorocks22) over several "non-incidents" (basically situations which could've easily been established as permissible within the rules after a short explanation) and proceeded to fuel long, drawn-out arguments through a refusal to make any concessions or see any points presented.


The most salient of these conversations can be found below, through which Viking:

  • Contacts me because of issues he had, then drops the ahelp mid-conversation because he didn't feel like talking to me anymore (which he outright stated)
  • Refuses to explain himself when I ask him for clarifications on said issues
  • Demonstrates poor judgement by trying to argue the validity of an issue on the sole basis that a player got upset, rather than looking at the validity of the issue in relation to server rules & general game intent
  • Repeatedly starts new points then drops them on a whim when I attempt to reason back
  • Accuses me of causing an issue I wasn't responsible for
  • Vehemently refuses to apologize about having accused me of said issue, going out of his way to avoid having to do so

 

http://pastebin.com/Bd6Qzvhp

(pastebin link for now, might format later but this post is long enough as it is)

 

Exhibit B:

 

Viking does not seem to have an accurate understanding of the situations he is confronted with. On a previous complaint I made, a different user posted an explanation irrelevant to the complain, which Viking shortly thereafter deemed to be a perfect explanation, despite the target of the complaint himself stating said explanation was not relevant in this case.


At another point, when attempting to establish a portrait of my character to another user, Viking associated the aforementioned complaint with a completely unrelated issue - I have no idea how. (The complaint was about metacommunication, whereas the other incident - one I never made a complaint for - had to do with me and Halo chucklefucking as chemists.) Through this, I believe he demonstrated he was capable of passing a harsh judgement on my person based on information he could not remember properly and accurately, despite being involved in both incidents. (The whole thing might've simply been a misphrasing on his part, however - I have no way to confirm as I wasn't present during the conversation to correct him or ask for clarification.)


Although I don't have further evidence to provide for this, most of my recent conversations with Viking have been equally nebulous, and it has been extremely difficult to gauge what his official intent was as a member of staff. Also worthy of note (in the conversation posted above) is the inferred statement that Viking dislikes me for arguing back with him and making him consider viewpoints different from his own.

 

Exhibit C:

 

This conversation between Viking and Thundy, concerning Thundy's moderator application:

https://gyazo.com/d1c5b220e401a71c87e03be602a98e9f

https://gyazo.com/cd37a25f8b12f96b52f6a0aee1ffe87d

https://gyazo.com/967f345b5be23a052171b1baef9c8d18

https://gyazo.com/bade43fb109b3ad39b49b4cc6dc40b0c




From this, two points:

 

  • Viking seems to have developed a bias against another previous mod applicant for, among other things, making posts in a past complain of mine which could hardly be conceived as anything else than neutral. (Here are the posts from Garnascus Viking is referencing, for comparison.) This, combined with the fact that Viking seemed to be rather obviously expecting Thundy to react negatively to the behavior he presented in that discussion (essentially as some kind of test) makes it seem like he's very pressed to have staff applicants agree with the current administration at all costs. Also relating to my complaints against Viking's judgement, it is worth noting that in that conversation, he states he did not trust Thundy to handle problems he never gave her a chance to handle... because he's never seen her handle them. (Though it should also be noted the reason why it's brought up is because he's apologizing for it.)
     
  • I am under the strong impression Viking holds a grudge against me, which would serve as a justification to his actions. He appears to describe me as some "blight upon the server", which needs to be removed or managed. Rather than attempting to engage in constructive dialogue with me, Viking seems content with trying to alienate me while ignoring my own attempts to reach out to him.

 

Additional remarks:


The incidents between me and Viking aren't the target of this complaint; rather, his general demeanor is. I personally have no opinion of Viking whatsoever (negative or positive, save for the fact that I think what he has done is the mark of a poor admin). I'm not mad at him, I don't really care what he thinks of me, and I haven't even had to interact with him in the past month (but I was waiting for the mod trials to end before bringing this up as mod applications have a history of being denied for being involved in drama).


My issue relates more to a kind of moderating where I feel like people don't really think about what they're doing. They develop grudges against users because they feel like that's the right thing to do, they get mad at people when they should be trying to solve problems with them, and so on. As a mod, I was essentially taught by the admins to rule with an iron fist and it's what I see a lot of people continue to do to this day. There's honestly a problem when your default stance is to assume your users are against you and that you need to either scare or beat people into following the rules. I'm not saying all staff are like this but some of them are.

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"Garnascus agreed with Frances, this is not healthy for a trial mod." - Apparently Viking sees Frances as, like, heroin that can talk. Or Satan. Watch out, Garn.

"Frances makes you rethink your opinion and that is bad." - No. Clearly, the real Satan here is thinking twice about your own opinion. Damn all people persuaded of different points of view in the past! WITCHCRAFT!!(!)


Thundy wasn't demanding anything, but suddenly CAPS DON'T DEMAND ANYTHING OMGGG, just because she bothered to press Viking a bit more. I don't get it. Is he just lazy? No wonder he hates Frances, I can agree she is a rather tenacious debater.


I've just skimmed this complaint, but from the byond messenger convo alone I'm ready to agree with Frances. But nobody listen to me - I'm suffering from agreeing-with-Frances-itis

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"Garnascus agreed with Frances, this is not healthy for a trial mod." - Apparently Viking sees Frances as, like, heroin that can talk. Or Satan. Watch out, Garn.

"Frances makes you rethink your opinion and that is bad." - No. Clearly, the real Satan here is thinking twice about your own opinion. Damn all people persuaded of different points of view in the past! WITCHCRAFT!!(!)


Thundy wasn't demanding anything, but suddenly CAPS DON'T DEMAND ANYTHING OMGGG, just because she bothered to press Viking a bit more. I don't get it. Is he just lazy? No wonder he hates Frances, I can agree she is a rather tenacious debater.


I've just skimmed this complaint, but from the byond messenger convo alone I'm ready to agree with Frances. But nobody listen to me - I'm suffering from agreeing-with-Frances-itis

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"Garnascus agreed with Frances, this is not healthy for a trial mod." - Apparently Viking sees Frances as, like, heroin that can talk. Or Satan. Watch out, Garn.

"Frances makes you rethink your opinion and that is bad." - No. Clearly, the real Satan here is thinking twice about your own opinion. Damn all people persuaded of different points of view in the past! WITCHCRAFT!!(!)


Thundy wasn't demanding anything, but suddenly CAPS DON'T DEMAND ANYTHING OMGGG, just because she bothered to press Viking a bit more. I don't get it. Is he just lazy? No wonder he hates Frances, I can agree she is a rather tenacious debater.


I've just skimmed this complaint, but from the byond messenger convo alone I'm ready to agree with Frances. But nobody listen to me - I'm suffering from agreeing-with-Frances-itis

 

Only post if involved. If you are not a moderator or administrator and were not involved in the incident(s) referred to, you may not post or reply to a staff complaint regarding said incident(s). It is permissible, however, to provide testimony regarding a staff member's behavior backed by proof, in the form of screenshots or logs.

 

Have a cordial reminder.


Anyway, we'll be waiting for Viking to post before moving on.

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"Garnascus agreed with Frances, this is not healthy for a trial mod." - Apparently Viking sees Frances as, like, heroin that can talk. Or Satan. Watch out, Garn.

"Frances makes you rethink your opinion and that is bad." - No. Clearly, the real Satan here is thinking twice about your own opinion. Damn all people persuaded of different points of view in the past! WITCHCRAFT!!(!)


Thundy wasn't demanding anything, but suddenly CAPS DON'T DEMAND ANYTHING OMGGG, just because she bothered to press Viking a bit more. I don't get it. Is he just lazy? No wonder he hates Frances, I can agree she is a rather tenacious debater.


I've just skimmed this complaint, but from the byond messenger convo alone I'm ready to agree with Frances. But nobody listen to me - I'm suffering from agreeing-with-Frances-itis

 

Only post if involved. If you are not a moderator or administrator and were not involved in the incident(s) referred to, you may not post or reply to a staff complaint regarding said incident(s). It is permissible, however, to provide testimony regarding a staff member's behavior backed by proof, in the form of screenshots or logs.

 

Have a cordial reminder.


Anyway, we'll be waiting for Viking to post before moving on.

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First of all, i don't know and don't care why you had access to a private conversation between me and Thundy. But the issue here, it was on unafficial terms, i wanted to explain the situation to her as "non-staff", failing in the process it seems.


And to clarify things, i didn't develop bias against certain people. I developed a bias against certain behaviors i think is harmful or deemed toxic to the server and/or the playerbase. In my experience you fell into that area. I would be more than happy not to act against you, but i am not going to overlook actions i think is bad.

 

Contacts me because of issues he had, then drops the ahelp mid-conversation because he didn't feel like talking to me anymore (which he outright stated)

After the conversation in question took 30+ minutes and you arguin in circles i got fed up. Yes i ended it, i explained everything multiple times but you ignored them and argued around them.

 

Refuses to explain himself when I ask him for clarifications on said issues

Refuses to accept explanations numerous times, "demanding"( i am cautious with this word) more explanations until i get tired enough and say something that fits her opinion.

 

Demonstrates poor judgement by trying to argue the validity of an issue on the sole basis that a player got upset, rather than looking at the validity of the issue in relation to server rules & general game intent

 

If other proper and casual players complain about borderline shenanigans, i am going to take action in trying to end that.

 

Repeatedly starts new points then drops them on a whim when I attempt to reason back

I think you meant this for yourself and not me, no?

 

Vehemently refuses to apologize about having accused me of said issue, going out of his way to avoid having to do so

I am not apologizing for doing something i think is reasonable and helps the server. So far only you( the suffering party) thought this was unjust? And i don't think other players and the staff is biased towards me in any way. If i fuck up, i take the responsibility happily, but that needs agreement on both sides.

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After the conversation in question took 30+ minutes and you arguin in circles i got fed up. Yes i ended it, i explained everything multiple times but you ignored them and argued around them.

Well, my initial problem was that you contacted me over what seemed like a serious issue to you, and then just stopped messaging (this happened after thirteen messages in the log I posted). I had to message you again to get you to keep talking to me, and I don't understand why an admin would drop their own adminPM against someone. I had no idea what you were going to do at that point, mind you - the only thing I understood was that an admin was mad at me, then stopped messaging me mid-conversation, so this was a little worrisome.


Let me add that I feel like I tried to answer your points pretty directly. You also stated that you disliked me for "trying to make you reconsider what you thought", though. :(


 

Refuses to accept explanations numerous times, "demanding"( i am cautious with this word) more explanations until i get tired enough and say something that fits her opinion.

I believe I provided a reasonable explanation for the actions you were berating me for. I would expect you to further explain why you disagreed in full knowledge of the additional information I provided. The reason why I refused to accept your explanation (of my character's behavior being inappropriate) is because I believed you were in the wrong. Anyway, this seems like a pretty simple case of a user and an admin disagreeing.

 

If other proper and casual players complain about borderline shenanigans, i am going to take action in trying to end that.

I was (and still am) under the impression that you attempted to punish us simply to pander to other players. A person was upset because they were held in surgery for 30 minutes as we attempted to save them - you berated me and Halo for causing this situation, although I have no idea how exactly we were responsible for this person having a bad time (feel free to explain here, though, if you want.) The Skrell surgeon was upset because we were making (verbal) jokes in the OR, instead of conforming to her idea of 100% serious hospital RP.

 

Repeatedly starts new points then drops them on a whim when I attempt to reason back

I think you meant this for yourself and not me, no?

No, I didn't drop anything. Several times I attempted to further my point on an issue, only to be met with a reply of "I'm tired and don't want to argue this". I wouldn't mind if this was a terribly long and circular conversation heading nowhere, but most of our exchanges can be summed up to "What you're doing is bad" / "Here's why I think what I'm doing isn't bad" / "I'm tired of arguing this".

 

I am not apologizing for doing something i think is reasonable and helps the server. So far only you( the suffering party) thought this was unjust? And i don't think other players and the staff is biased towards me in any way. If i fuck up, i take the responsibility happily, but that needs agreement on both sides.
Okay, that's just... come on. I don't think you were being a douche on purpose but I don't really understand what you had in mind at that time. Halo and I (as doctors) tried to fix the toxin levels of a bugged character, trying out various things such as liver transplants and amputation of infected limbs. At the end, we realize that there's just no saving the guy and ask for him to be rejuvenated (as at this point it's an obvious bug). At that point you PM us both, accuse us of "fucking around" and basically sum up that person being pissed off as being our fault because we're useless. (I also find it funny that you claim the one surgeon that did literally nothing but sit around as both Halo and I tried various treatments "tried whereas we did not, thus annoying her".)


I just don't understand why you still want to hold this against us - and when informed that the incidents happened due to a bug, you clearly stated you wouldn't apologize to me because you had no reason to believe me. Like... I don't get it. Is it really so hard to admit when you've made a mistake?


Here are the relevant logs for discussion.

 

PM to-VikingPingvin: On a semi-related note, I'm really not saying this to be an ass but more because I'm actually mildly bothered, but can we at least get an apology or an aknowledgement about the guy that died from the infection bug?


Primary Admin PM from-VikingPingvin: Infection bug? No. ALso, you gave the skrell 237 liver demage while removing the appendix. You should be the one apologising.


PM to-VikingPingvin: So you basically won't apologize for accusing us of causing an issue we weren't at fault for, and your justification for that is that my surgeon performed poorly when treating someone else?


Primary Admin PM from-VikingPingvin: I say that i don't know any bug regarding this. I asked Scopes just to be sure.


PM to-VikingPingvin: But one of the things you blamed us for was taking thirty minutes to treat a patient when they were obviously bugged...


Primary Admin PM from-VikingPingvin: You have been succesful of extending this argument when i said i am done 10-15 minutes ago. So yeah, i am not willing to continue this.


PM to-VikingPingvin: I don't want to argue, I just wanted an apology for accusing us of something we didn't do. Like, you could just say "my bad about that", or idk, and that'd be it.


Primary Admin PM from-VikingPingvin: Until i get a confirmation on the existance of such a bug, i will not.


PM to-VikingPingvin: Wow, it doesn't have to be formal like that. I mean, I don't even know how to say this, but it's not like we kept him around with rising toxin damage for 30 minutes for fun haha

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I asked Scopes and Skulls at that time if they were aware of such a bug. They were unaware of such a thing you mentioned as phantom pain. You acted ICly on a /supposed/ bug, that after all did not exist. Why didn't you ahelp this /bug/ in the first place?


And please, i am a person who is really, i mean really keen on apologizing when making a mistake in life...I do not believe this was a mistake.


By other players i did not mean the guy in surgery, but the other medical staff. They were highly annoyed by your behavior.

 

Anyway, this seems like a pretty simple case of a user and an admin disagreeing.

This will sound harsh, but in such situations usually staff has the final say. Which you never seem to accept.

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I asked Scopes and Skulls at that time if they were aware of such a bug. They were unaware of such a thing you mentioned as phantom pain. You acted ICly on a /supposed/ bug, that after all did not exist. Why didn't you ahelp this /bug/ in the first place?


And please, i am a person who is really, i mean really keen on apologizing when making a mistake in life...I do not believe this was a mistake.


By other players i did not mean the guy in surgery, but the other medical staff. They were highly annoyed by your behavior.

Let's recap from the very beginning. A person comes into medbay with a burn on their hand. We treat the burn. They return later with an infection. We treat the infection, give them spaceacillin, and send them on their way.


They come back later with still an infection. We give them more spaceacillin, anti-tox. Keep them under observation for a while. The infection's still there.


At this point, it's clear that the person is going to die if we don't get rid of the infection. And since regular treatment doesn't work, we choose, as doctors bent on preserving life, to take whatever measures we can to save the life of our patient (this is reasonable, yes?) Two things come from this - a liver transplant, and amputation of the infected limb, both of which had reasonable chances to halt the progress of the infection both in-universe and gameplay-wise. Yes, we were testing stuff (within reason), but if you're saying Aurora isn't a place to test things (within reason) you'd be making a pretty poor SS13 server.


The bug was a phantom infection bug, which I've never encountered before but Halo claims to (and he plays in medical a lot). Once we both realized this and having exhausted our other options, we sent an ahelp to get some help from the admins.


If you have any other suggestions as to why a mob could experience toxin damage from an infection after being fed copious amounts of spaceacillin, having their infected limb removed, and having their liver taken out and replaced, be my guest.

 

This will sound harsh, but in such situations usually staff has the final say. Which you never seem to accept.

I find it disheartening that you've been dismissing most of my arguments without as much as considering them. This is why I have an issue with your authority being final, because in the conversations we've had you don't seem to be willing to hear me out, which you've further proven judging by how you speak of me to others.


As for refusing to accept staff judgements, I had a later conversation with Tenenza, who was able to provide a much better and clearer (as well as less confrontational) explanation as to why he had issues with me playing chucklefuck characters (which isn't fully related to this complaint). I ended up agreeing with him when seeing his point, which tbh was much better and convincing than the administration saying "you should know why this is bad because it's obvious, so I'm not going to explain it further". Saying I never agree with the staff is false. Saying I've had many run-ins and confrontations is not, though I think context does matter because I'm not blindly opposing you guys.

 



So far only you( the suffering party) thought this was unjust?

Also not saying this to be cheeky, but it's a bit difficult for other people to express their views when a rule explicitly prevents them from posting in staff complaints.

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I'm going to be blunt.


The admins and mods are NOT required to argue with people on issues. They have the final say. When we usually let something be argued, its because we feel there may be valid reason, or want to give them another chance to explain themselves.


Therefore, when you exhaust one's time, by pointlessly ignoring information to perpetuate an argument further, cherry-picking points and key terms to twist or turn against the staff, etc... We have absolutely no reason to continue arguing. The staff member holds the final say at the end of the day, and a lot of us don't think an afternoon of fun is composed of arguing for upwards of 30, 40 minutes for something simple.


This is a heavy RP server. Heavy RP will be enforced as we see necessary. Lightheartedness and silly things are fine, in small doses, but you need to remember the kind of server you're on.

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Hi. I know you guys hate when people jump into the fray like this, but the bug FFrances was dealing with is very, very real. It's from Bay's germ code. Basically, germs are killed by spaceacillin, and don't count as infections--but, they come from them. So if an infection occurs, that person will slowly gain germs, which will themselves gradually increase in number on their own until it snowballs out of control with exponentially rising toxins levels.


Once germs get out of control, there is no saving the patient. The problem is not localized to any one portion of the body, cannot be amputated, and is not affected by any organs. The best you can do is put them on life support and pray that a crew transfer comes in time before the damage outstrips the healing you can do. This damage can skyrocket as high as, I've seen on my own patient, ~60 damage per tick toxins. The code is so bugged, that sometimes even rejuvenations will not fix it. Sometimes they have to be rejuvenated several times.


All of the treatments I've caught wind of in this thread for that incident were legitimate and viable for the situation at hand. It is unfortunate that the admin involved was so terribly biased against the player that no investigation was conducted, as even a cursory one would have revealed the issue.


Source: Wesley Jesse, chemist extraordinaire

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Therefore, when you exhaust one's time, by pointlessly ignoring information to perpetuate an argument further, cherry-picking points and key terms to twist or turn against the staff, etc... We have absolutely no reason to continue arguing.

Please tell me which information I have ignored and which points I have cherry-picked.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Alright, since Jen can't handle this due to real life things, I'll be taking over.


Point A has been discussed with the respective staff member and addressed, and will not occur again, since he understands the issue as explained. Point B refers to the staff member's opinion regarding matters he has no executive authority over, and C pertains to his own reasons for abstaining from supporting a trial moderator's promotion. Neither of these pose an issue. Considering I know of no prior misconduct on this staff member's record, I see no reason to take further action at this time.


Is there anything else you'd like to mention, or may we proceed?

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I dunno, I sorta would've preferred to have a honest conversation with Viking but if it's already been dealt and done a while ago I can see him not wanting to come back to this for basically little reason. So things are cool on that.


That's for point A.


As for points B and C, saying "this issue doesn't bear addressing because the person's opinion bears no effect" isn't a call I agree with. You can't look at that alone, like, I think it's worth thinking about what was said and why it was said, rather than saying "well, it's just opinions, doesn't really matter what they are". Example: You're a manager of a Pizza Hut. If one of your cooks suddenly started to profess their admiration for Hitler, you'd probably feel a little concerned even if it had nothing to do with their ability to make pizzas, right?


I'm not equating Viking to Nazis (lmao), but if anything what happened here is even more relevant to his position as an admin, because even if he wasn't in the position to make the final call on moderator applications he is an authority figure passing judgments on people he's working with, and thus these judgments deserve to be considered, especially if they're hastily made or inaccurate.


Plus I'm pretty sure admins get listened to when they say things about other users, no?


At the very least I'd like to see some discussion happening around this, because I feel like somebody caught flak simply for posting a comment in a thread involving me (when said comment wasn't even supporting me, which is something Viking seemed to strongly imply), and somebody else (who was at the time a mod applicant) was given a semi-interrogation to see if they disliked me. I am about 95% certain Viking does not have a personal vendetta against me, and that he was operating in the way he judged was best to deal with issues I was involved with, but I seriously want to question these methods of problem-solving.

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Things.

 

The underlying problem of the staff member's conduct towards you as someone he may see as an "issue" was conveniently addressed while discussing point A, which is part of why the rest of it requires no further prodding at this time - it would be pretty redundant. If this conduct sees no adjustment in future cases, it will be dealt with accordingly, but it is presently (correct me if I'm wrong) the first incident of the sort and has not been a recurring problem, nor severe enough on its own to warrant anything further than what was already done.

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The underlying problem of the staff member's conduct towards you as someone he may see as an "issue" was conveniently addressed while discussing point A, which is part of why the rest of it requires no further prodding at this time - it would be pretty redundant. If this conduct sees no adjustment in future cases, it will be dealt with accordingly, but it is presently (correct me if I'm wrong) the first incident of the sort and has not been a recurring problem, nor severe enough on its own to warrant anything further than what was already done.

Fair enough, then. Thanks for the help, and best of luck to Viking. Sorry we couldn't settle this by talking here.


Complaint resolved on my end, I guess?

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