Regarding issues with the DO Corp

[Jboy2000000]

That sounds easy, but it feels like its just going to go in a loop. Admins want DO's to prove that they can be trusted. But people either don't trust the DO's or don't feel like reports even matter because the admins monitoring them makes punishment next to impossible, so people don't make IR reports, so DO's can't prove themselves to the admins, so admins keep sitting on them, so punishments don't go through, so people don't make reports, so DO's can't prove themselves, and you see where Im doing here.

[Skull132]

I think Doom is like, busy with life for this week and the next (possibly one more, I forget). But this matter should have Scopes' attention, who is passed out right meow.

*Sigh* And no, JBoy, that's not how it's done. You don't create a unit and then have it "prove" itself. You create a unit, provide it with tools and instruction, and make it fit for purpose. If necessary, provide guidance, otherwise observe and enable. (And enabling is the thing we're sorely lacking in here.) There is no loop, and there is no need to prove shit to anyone -- it's a linear path, with a clear end goal.

[Jboy2000000]

If thats not how it is, is it so important that the admins need to trust the DO corp? Whats stopping the DO's from spreading their wings and flying, as you put it? As the DO's themselves make it seem, the biggest thing holding them back is the admins.

[Skull132]

Because the head admin and the admins are ultimately responsible for the management of the server. This includes the DOs. If the DOs mess up hardcore, then it falls on the admins to clean it up.

[Witt]

Hi, before I begin, I want to be clear. I am not actively on any investigation currently due to being occupied with life/Dev things. but I feel its important that I speak my peace anyways. Ok, the real problem with our current DO system (or the one I see the most) is a three fold problem.

First: We have a fair amount of reports about random character or about characters that vanished after the reports. it is kinda hard to do an interview on people that don't come around.

Two: Our DOs (and honestly most of our staff) seem to group towards the prime hours. there have been a few times when I see people who need an interview on and they don't get it because the case DO is not on during American mornings.

Three: for log reasons (and I fully support this by the way) we are forced to talk in game and on station. And obviously we wont go on during nuke/Mutiny/if we know shits about to explode

Also, I don't understand where everyone gets the Ideas that the mins/mods are trying to stop/inhibited DO actions. The only mods who directly speak to us are Jenn and Tish (scopes does too, but only cause he likes to escort us); and I have never once see them put a stop to a DO action unless our presence would affect a round like nuke/Mutiny/ shit hitting fan tator things.

Like I said, communication (which we are working on, and it seems to be working) seems to be what is slowing us and our reports down, but I wouldn't say no to another dead hour DO.

[Jboy2000000]

No one thinks the admins are purposefully try to inhibit DO's, but they do, and they know they do. Its not their fault because they're trying, it just seems to be their fault through inaction.

[Baka]

Now I don't understand where you are getting that admins interfere with DOs, their decisions, ect. But it's certainly not true from what I seen.

If they have to go on station, we arrange to have people spawn in to be their ERT escort. We tell them if the round type is good to board. Because DOs on a nuke ops round would be absolutely difficult to do a report considering the nature of how we apparently play nuke.

That's the jist of what we do. That's the extent of administration help they receive. Moderators have no way to go onto DOsay. Jennalele and Tishiniastalker are more closely involved with the duty officers, but that's it.

If you have any proof in any form that there's something a muck, I implore you to post it to Gollee or Doomberg, or hell, in this thread ASAP. Because you can say "admins are purposefully try to inhibit duty officers" until you're blue in the face, but unless you got some sort of evidence suggesting it, you're blowing nothing but smoke.

[Reyjakai]

Strangely, I think the DO's actions have been overall OK, with the glaring exception to my personal issue with them. As Tainavaa said earlier (especially being they're the only person I talk to outside of playing the game) is that I feel you guys massively overstepped your authority, as well as exacerbating my IC issue way, way far into OOC to the point of trying to change my character to the way that you guys wanted her to be played. I didn't see or notice people complaining about the DO corps prior to my action taking place, (This may be me just being more aware of it because it pertains to me specifically) and talking it out with several of you guys for hours has done exactly nothing. I agree with what you guys are doing in theory, and perhaps have more hope for the system in general than a lot of other people here.

Clearly trying to keep it off the forums hasn't done me a lot of good, and it may be reflecting badly on the duty officers as a whole.

This also relates to a lot of the sentiment that players are dissatisfied with the lack of transparency. I thought it was just me that was feeling this, but clearly I'm not the only one that thinks things are getting a bit out of hand overall.

[EvilBrage]

My only gripe is that when someone sends a fax about something super serious, we usually get a super snarky "improper format lol" back. Even if that's true - really?

That's followed by "we're fining everyone with access to a fax machine" if it happens again, which makes absolutely zero sense, business-wise (not to mention cheapening an already oft-unused credit system, as people will simply ignore the fines next round, and probably even that same round.)

Focus more on individuals. I'd much prefer to see "XYZ, please report to HR for a performance review" rather than "we're taking money from you now because you've mildly annoyed us."

[Killerhurtz]

...Am I the only one who has never ever gotten an "improper format" note?

[Guest]

My main issue, which varries from circumstance to circumstance, is that DOs on the station can at times hamper round progression. Notable examples are when certain members are taken out of their needed position to talk with them on station, backseat managing the command staff and locking down half of command. Again, it depends on the situation and would just ask that it's taken into account during investigations onboard Aurora.

[Gollee]

My main issue, which varries from circumstance to circumstance, is that DOs on the station can at times hamper round progression. Notable examples are when certain members are taken out of their needed position to talk with them on station, backseat managing the command staff and locking down half of command. Again, it depends on the situation and would just ask that it's taken into account during investigations onboard Aurora.

 

DO's shouldn't be on station during dangerous events. They should also only be using the command channel is extreme circumstances, that's currently on trial. As for taking people out of the round, we can only perform interviews on server, and they can last up to an hour, I have had several arguements with people about that, but the point of proof still stands, if it's done on server, we can get definitive logs, and proof that they are unaltered.

[Nogo3]

Wouldn't a suitable replacement to speaking directly on the round to be to try an take it off to a third party client to discuss, such as roleplaying it out over Skype or some viable alternative? This was a practice we did on another server with a group that is essentially the DO's equivalent. That would allow for the round to not go disturbed and it would better fit in the the schedule of people who might not be around to play another round or are not frequently on. Usually definitive evidence of unaltered logs isn't really a thing that becomes a massive issue when doing those kinds of reports. If you're worried of edits or deletion on someone's part, there's plenty of options that don't allow those small changes so you can get raw-cut. Even BYOND messenger works for it. Not a major point into the issues of the DO's, but I thought this might be a relevant suggestion to conducting interviews.

[SierraKomodo]

Wouldn't a suitable replacement to speaking directly on the round to be to try an take it off to a third party client to discuss, such as roleplaying it out over Skype or some viable alternative? This was a practice we did on another server with a group that is essentially the DO's equivalent. That would allow for the round to not go disturbed and it would better fit in the the schedule of people who might not be around to play another round or are not frequently on. Usually definitive evidence of unaltered logs isn't really a thing that becomes a massive issue when doing those kinds of reports. If you're worried of edits or deletion on someone's part, there's plenty of options that don't allow those small changes so you can get raw-cut. Even BYOND messenger works for it. Not a major point into the issues of the DO's, but I thought this might be a relevant suggestion to conducting interviews.

 

As for taking people out of the round, we can only perform interviews on server, and they can last up to an hour, I have had several arguements with people about that, but the point of proof still stands, if it's done on server, we can get definitive logs, and proof that they are unaltered.

 

It's an issue of accountability, so that a DO can't say person X said/did Y or person X can't say DO said/did Y; There's absolute proof in logs (The DO recorder saves a hard file to the server, that any DO can access read-only once the recorder is shut off in game).

As for Reyjakai's issue, I feel like a good part of the 'People started complaining after I had actions against me' was because you took a 'Suspended from robotics and RD, and not allowed to use weapons' and turned it into 'They lobotimized me, now I can't talk or do anything because my combat module is actually a part of my brain and I'm gonna go to IAA for pity points and get them to start sending angry faxxes to the Duty Officers'. The original punishment had absolutely nothing to do with what you were saying was done to your character, to the best of my knowledge. (I wasn't involved in making the decision, as I was involved as the AI in that investigation).

And finally, to everyone in general regarding transparency and nobody being informed, I've already poked Gollee about an issue that arose from that. Assuming everyone cooperates, I'll be keeping a thread up to date with current injunctions/suspensions/other actions in the heads of staff forum: http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=2934

DISCLAIMER: I am still not a duty officer, nor am I a contact to get through to a duty officer. I'm just trying to help resolve some of these issues.

P.S.: I think we need some kind of list of who is a Duty Officer, for the purpose of players knowing who to contact/bug (And so people don't keep coming to me).

[Reyjakai]

As for Reyjakai's issue, I feel like a good part of the 'People started complaining after I had actions against me' was because you took a 'Suspended from robotics and RD, and not allowed to use weapons' and turned it into 'They lobotimized me, now I can't talk or do anything because my combat module is actually a part of my brain and I'm gonna go to IAA for pity points and get them to start sending angry faxxes to the Duty Officers'. The original punishment had absolutely nothing to do with what you were saying was done to your character, to the best of my knowledge. (I wasn't involved in making the decision, as I was involved as the AI in that investigation).

 

This actually managed to get resolved yesterday after some discussion with everybody about a variety of things. And for the record, IC I did everything because I thought it was the most reasonable thing for my character to do. All the contact the IA made was initiated by them and suggested by them, not by me, either IC or OOC. Additionally, I never read the faxes and the response from the duty officers was to immediately order the IA brigged. My problem at the time was that the action was done without talking to me, and I felt it stemmed from something that was OOC (which ultimately it did, but that part should also be resolved as well). And again, for the record, I stated that it was effectively a lobotomy once in LOOC, because that seemed like an OK explanation at the time. I qualified it and changed it later as I managed to get ahold of people. ANYWAY.

[Guest]

P.S.: I think we need some kind of list of who is a Duty Officer, for the purpose of players knowing who to contact/bug (And so people don't keep coming to me).

I asked for a list of official Duty Officers through Doom and I have yet to receive this list, once I have this list I will be able to point you to somewhere where you will be able to see who is a DO.

because at the moment the list is inaccurate and people are listed who shouldn't be (Due to not being around or leaving without saying a word)

[Gollee]

Apparently this needs to be said again.

IF YOU HAVE ISSUES WITH THE DO CORPS.

MESSAGE ME.

I WILL NOT MURDER YOU AND MAKE YOUR BONES INTO A STEW.

[Blingx3]

Apparently this needs to be said again.

IF YOU HAVE ISSUES WITH THE DO CORPS.

MESSAGE ME.

I WILL NOT MURDER YOU AND MAKE YOUR BONES INTO A STEW.

 

AHHHHH ! WE HAVE A KILLER HERE, HIDE YO KIDS !

[Gollee]

Seeing as this seems to need saying again.

I cannot act on shit I do not know. I can't effectively manage and control a team if I am not told about incidents that occur.

 

I'm being told recently that a good few people have little to no faith in the DO team, or they think a member is biased against them, or other such things.

I'm rather annoyed right now, because this is all going on in private channels, and just getting worse and worse and worse, without anyone coming to me.

I would like to state that:

• I am not a monster.
  
  I am not going to ignore issues.
  
  I would not say I am biased against any player, given how long I have sat out of the game.
  
  I am not going to play metafriends and allow things to happen because I like the person doing it.

I'm sad, and rather upset that people aren't willing to talk to me about issues they are having, I really do try to build up a good relation with players where possible, and I am one of the people who end up feeling very guilty after doing something that may have upset someone accidentally ((If it's a legitimate thing, like a valid complaint/ban request/Incident report, no such qualms, before anyone brings that up.))

I've been with the community for years, I have seen most of you join, people I knew from Apollo leave, if you have an issue with the DO team, or even with me, about other things, tell me, and they can be sorted out, I, just now, had a discussion with a player over the Byond pager, who I had wronged, and it got sorted out, issues were dealt with, problems were hashed out, and things are on the mend.

I do not want anyone here to think that I am some sort of biased idiot who is just going to laugh at your problems, I'm here to help, so let me.

[SierraKomodo]

To touch on this briefly, we are aware that there's confusion about what DOs can and cant do, when you can and cannot file an IR, etc etc. I was wanting to address this last week but Skull's been busy; We're HOPEFULLY going to get this addressed, sorted out, organized, blah blah blah this week.

[Gollee]

If you feel uncertain on whether an IR is valid or not; post it. If it isn't valid, it'll be closed, and we will tell you why. You aren't going to get in trouble for posting an invalid IR.