Hyper-Advanced Fluffy Space raptors

[Guest]

Carnivores don't need to be colored in various shades of brown and green. Humans are the most efficient apex predators in the history of our planet, and we wear camouflage to disguise ourselves. And you know raptors were actually extremely deadly chickens that we presume were a bit colorful.

Well, it's more complex than green = forests, white = snow, but having them brightly colored in a non-tropical environment makes little to no sense.

Also, people, just because we haven't seen them yet doesn't mean they have to be new spacefaring civilization. The galaxy is still vast enough to miss stuff. My suggestion is simply make them be recently found by humanity.

[Fire and Glory]

My suggestion is simply make them be recently found by humanity.

How about we make them find Humanity instead with a Russian Reversal, Humanity doesn't have to be the only great race of explorers out there.

[Guest]

My suggestion is simply make them be recently found by humanity.

How about we make them find Humanity instead with a Russian Reversal, Humanity doesn't have to be the only great race of explorers out there.

Well, we have Skrell for that, but yes, I like that. Have them enter human space instead.

[LordFowl]

Like the Vaurca and the Skrell? At this point it doesn't really matter if humanity had found them or not, if diversity is your game.

[swat43]

Seeing the six page thread.. i dont even feel like reading through everything... but what i want to ask something important is...

Why are we trying to add new races... who will (Most likely or possibly) removed (for a another period of times for who ever knows what) before we have even dealt with the main issues for the main problem. And main issue being getting the new map operational and other important code issues.

I may be out of the loop because i am a person who just comes here to play not interest what goes around here (except on forums for laughs and giggles on some threads) but... why add whistles and bells when we cannot just even deal with other TONS of ideas to get in the game?

Mind you. As much as i love to see new races.. i think people are a bit russhing on ideas than the team is able to even finalize their own major objectives. Oh.. another question i would like to ask.

If this new race will be added. How many people will play this since we mostly have around 40-50 people playing on Aurora? Will this new race be worth it? Or just another 'option' for people show off?

[jackfractal]

I think swat has a good point. These are not going to be cheap to port, and aside from them being cute (which they are) I don't really see the point.

We're not exactly drowning in developers.

[Guest]

I think we should take them. I haven't read past the first page of this thread, but I did see Jack's comment about 'why don't we stop porting and do things ourselves'

I'd like to point out that our Developer team seems to lack in the big features department, no offense to them as I'm sure they're competent, but most of our updates have just been little things here and there for the past year...

Even the Skrell update that Skull swore he would finish, has been slid onto the backburner to focus on other things that won't be as cool or fun. Perhaps this view merely comes from being uninformed on what the Dev team is working on, but, it just seems like we're incapable of making large-scale projects like this ourselves.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Mapping is a different aspect of coding than coding in races. They are two separate responsibilities. Skull isn't a mapper, he's a coder for the other stuff.

We already have other big items coming. A functioning, consistent economy. Skrell telepathy. Getting me host powers and banning people that disagree with me

This game is open source and just about everything has been borrowed or taken from everyone else. It's weird to have this "our code" attachment and snub your nose at importing anything. What is "our code"? Should we remove everything not originating from "our code"?

And arguing "what's the point of new aliens >:C" can be used against all current races. What, really, do Skrell bring us? They have no mechanics. Do we want to remove them? What's the point of Tajaran? Aren't the just used to show off?

These reservations are more a fear of change than anything. It's 2457 people, change is coming. And the consequences will never be the same.

[jackfractal]

Mapping and coding are different, but there's a lot of code work that needs to be done to support the ground map before the ground map will, like, work.

To be honest, I would remove the alien species we have now. As you say, they're not sufficiently different from humans to justify their existence.

I don't have a problem with porting stuff. Most of the things I've done has been ports from Paradise or elsewhere. I'm just saying that these guys are going to be a big port, because they rely on a bunch of ancillary mechanics that Bay has that we don't. To port them you have to port all of those mechanics in addition to porting the Resomi themselves, which would be a comparatively large job. Of course, as a side benefit, we'd finally be able to pick up and hug Ian, which may justify the whole project all on its own.

[Jakers457]

I would enjoy having another race to the mixture. We are taking about a large scale SciFi universe, with space fish and wizards, surely having more species that are sentient wouldn't be that much of a stretch.

[Guest]

Honestly, this is here because people who are tasked with implementing the code said that lore should be discussed here. We are doing that, discussing the lore.

To be honest, I would remove the alien species we have now. As you say, they're not sufficiently different from humans to justify their existence.

I think this is faulty reasoning. Variety is a good thing and taking things away is a bad thing, unless the things are outright damaging.

[jackfractal]

Err... this wasn't originally a really a thread specifically to talk about the lore for these critters, it's a suggestion thread, so it's actually about whether or not including them is a good idea.

I don't say yay or nay for that, I'm just pointing out that they're going to be expensive to port in terms of time, due to their associated mechanics not existing on Aurora.

They're also going to be an ongoing drain of resources, as they can't share clothing without additional sprite work.

While I know that I'm probably alone on this one, I found Jackboots assertion that removing the existing species was so out there that nobody would ever suggest it to be kinda funny as that's basically become my opinion over the last few months.

The existing alien races cause problems. They don't work very well with all of the systems that pre-date them, and most of the core systems pre-date them.

For example, they muck up the targeting system and surgery. Tails, for instance, do not physically exist in SS13, and neither do Skrell head tentacles. Dionaea don't work properly either, as you can't interact with the individual nymph's that make up their bodies.

Aside from their poor integration with legacy systems, the alien species tend to cause interpersonal issues. Just look at all of the long, emotionally heated, threads full of angry people yelling about Tajaran. The attempt to fix the consistency issues using white-lists has created an ongoing management overhead to only questionable effect.

They cause all these issues while not (with the exception of Vox) mixing up the game very much.

As a feature, I feel that the alien species cause more problems then they provide value. Their return on investment is not very good.

That being said, I am well aware that removing them would never fly here and would actually be a terrible idea. People are already invested in characters of those species, and even if that weren't the case, nobody likes having things taken away from them.

Regardless of the issues I see with the aliens, I'd never really suggest getting rid of them.

[Killerhurtz]

Jack, that's the thing though. Lore must be discussed so that they are easier to implement. For instance, the clothing may be a moot point - as we either say they can only wear them rolled down, or say that unless it's especially important we don't create a sprite for them (as they don't really mind being borderline naked). And even then? I'm not an OFFICIAL spriter - but I've already done a fair share of spritework for the server (IPC organs, lifesupport surgery table, a vast majority of the pending custom items). And I'd be down for working double-time to make this happen.

As for removing species - it doesn't have to be mechanical differences. Lore differences are also a big motive here - remember, we ARE a Heavy RP server.

As for surgery - it's all good and well, since in the game you can't hurt. And that's more a problem of "there's a bigger backlog of more important things than adding tails and diona anatomy" than it can't be done. And if we're going to disqualify ideas on that grounds, we might as well close down the suggestions board because we DO have a large backlog.

And for the integration? OOC it's a community issue. IC it's actually lore, to some extent. And people are going to be butthurt about shit anyways.

And they don't mix up the game very much? That's also a community issue, because with the lore that all of the races have, it SHOULD bring some interesting things (and sometimes it does). But most of the players treat the aliens as human+, going very very mild in their mannerisms.

[jackfractal]

I think we should probably shelve the 'Why does Jack think removing aliens would be good?' part of this conversation. It's off topic, and like I said, I don't think it is either possible or advisable on this server.

[Guest]

And they don't mix up the game very much? That's also a community issue, because with the lore that all of the races have, it SHOULD bring some interesting things (and sometimes it does). But most of the players treat the aliens as human+, going very very mild in their mannerisms.

It's an issue that will never get solved. So, yes, outright removal is the only confirmed solution. I kinda see it.

But to close the discussion, this is a chance to implement a species that can actually add enough to justify it's existence, just because we have a chance to start from scratch. This is an opportunity to make the game more interesting, as opposed to adding more meaningless fluff.

[Guest]

if I might make a somewhat humorous comparison, the phrase "remove kebab from the premises" in hindsight may not be the best way to go about it. while, yes, removing tajarans/unathi/every other race from the game would remove their problems from the server since they no longer exist, you run the risk of people who are very invested in their alien characters of leaving the community altogether.

i personally wouldn't mind if the problem aliens were to 'go', but it would be a shame to see people who actually roleplay the races correctly or at the very least, in an interesting and fun manner, to leave. I think, ultimately, we have more to lose from removing catbeasts/lizards.

so, it would appear the only solution (imo) is taking a moderate or a neutral approach to it. I would also argue it would be more fun, since the moderation/administration team gets to dunk on individuals that are causing trouble. case-by-case analysis is more fun anyway.

[EvilBrage]

I, for one, think a mass exodus of other species would be a welcome change. Maybe Moghes wants to nuke humans instead of themselves this time and we can get rid of those damn lizards. Maybe we can even throw them into nuke/heist rounds or something, but get them off the station.

In any case, the last time we tried to just take a section of Bay's code, a bunch of things broke and so I'm vehemently against the introduction of the copypasta method until we test absolutely everything to know it all does (or does not) work. Even then, I'd like it very much if it weren't a completely new race. Throw them in there with the vox and give the collective heist team a 50/50 chance to be either race and I'd like it, though - but beyond that, we have enough cuddly beast races to satisfy the furries, thanks.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

We're not removing the current races. Our alliance with the furry fandom is what keeps this server strong. Our forefathers didn't die in the Great Meme War to see us lose the foundation of Aurora. Also I'm not going through another major reboot of the lore. We've been through four, the last one being mine. Settle down.

I actually haven't given my opinion on the race being implemented, just discussing ramifications and how lore should go. I enjoy the creativity behind the race and support additional avenues of players to explore their creativity and contribute to an enjoyable race. It's up to the coders to determine if the benefits are worth their expense of time and effort.

However, I have reservations that I can't really articulate right now, since they're a vague "ehhhh something about cutiepie whimsy and this not being the place for it"

I'll have to ghost and watch how they're played on Bay to actually get an idea of how their whole aesthetic is.

[Guest]

However, I have reservations that I can't really articulate right now, since they're a vague "ehhhh something about cutiepie whimsy and this not being the place for it"

Which is why I'm up for a more serious direction, making them social, yet intelligent and developed alien species. I mean, only thing similar are Skrell, which are basically Vulkans with none of the appeal.

[EvilBrage]

Which is why I'm up for a more serious direction, making them social, yet intelligent and developed alien species. I mean, only thing similar are Skrell, which are basically Vulkans with none of the appeal.

But is this the fault of the race and lore, or the players? If we're unable to make skrell interesting without some obtuse mechanic, who's to say that a new race will be any different?

[Damarik]

Totally down for this idea. Not only do we have (what I presume to be) the first real xenophobic race of xenos (due to their isolationistic tendencies), but we have one that has the potential to be more significantly advanced in technology than any present that we've already got. It would give them many different dynamic angles to use when interacting with the current crew and races. Such examples:

Hive-Mind mentality? Do they operate as individuals, or do they operate on a collective conscious? Telepathy is not the only means of creating this kind of bond. Some species operate through pheromone trails (insects) while others deliver direct communication (Humans, to some limited extent in the commercial/industrial complex)

Thoughts on other races:

Humans: Oh, those poor pitiful creatures. Would be inclined to assist them further advance their society if they weren't such disgusting creatuers. We work with them, but not for them. We inhabit their stations because while we don't really have anything to gain...we have nothing to lose by making another allied race.

Tajara: Fluffy, like us. But sadly no where near as intelligent. Oh well, you win and lose. They are fun to irritate, none the less. Just don't let them get their filthy paws on us.

Unathi: Brothers, Sisters and Cousins alike. While not as advanced as us, we must find a way to help advance our more scaly kin without actually doing anything. Learning isn't learning if it is spoon-fed.

Skrell: Not even sure what these things are...but as long as they stay away from the nest-space, we won't hurt them too badly.

Diona: Good for climbing and sharpening claws on. Not so good for consumption, unlike the other races. Their young are adorable, however.\

Communication Modes:

Verbal - clicks, trills

Physical - bobs, ducks, color changes, tail flips

Subtle - head cock, eyeridge raising, scents

Technological - Specially designed headsets for verbal communication over distance. Despised, as at least half of their language is conveyed through physical and subtle communications, and loses much of its meaning without these signals.

Positions on the station: Can only be maintained if they have crewmates in similar positions, or are the Head of a Department with crewmen below them. If they are the only participant in that department, they must immediately seek reassignment to a department inline with their relative skills that has staff members. Due to their pack/herd mentality, they must be around others, or the solitude will drive them mad.

Sub-Command (HoP, Chiefs of Staff)

Engineering (With special tools, and only in teams of two or more)

Science

Medical (With special tools)

Civilian (Can't use the Bartender's shotgun)

Security Not Advised - While being highly advanced, getting into any kind of physical conflict triggers a killer instinct that makes them lose all reason and become slavering beasts. It takes them many days to come down from this, and as such should be left out of physical conflict. Non-Physical Conflict (from behind the barrel of a gun) is frowned upon, but is moderately safer as it is slower to trigger the instinct. Because of this, they have maintained a several millenium lasting peace on their planet...else they might have killed each other off long ago.

Supply - All jobs except mining (Even in teams, the isolation of space that far from any other large group of people is too unsettling to think of)

Good lord, I Could go on forever designing this particular race...XD They present many opportunities to flex the old imagination.

Seriously guys...my suggestions have been blocked and torn apart time and again. If there is one thing I could do for this forum and Aurora in general as a game-server, let it be this. At least lemme try and write for these guys...and receive a full critique from any and all in power before there is a yea-nay vote. If these guys were to become implemented, I would be happy to never ask for anything else again.

[Guest]

Which is why I'm up for a more serious direction, making them social, yet intelligent and developed alien species. I mean, only thing similar are Skrell, which are basically Vulkans with none of the appeal.

But is this the fault of the race and lore, or the players? If we're unable to make skrell interesting without some obtuse mechanic, who's to say that a new race will be any different?

Depends on who you ask. I have little interest in playing anything other than humans, as ironically as it sounds. That's more from my love of humanity than anything else. I'll probably pick up this guys if they are ever implemented.

Skrell, Tajaran and Unathi are kinda hard to change at this point, anything you do goes against already established knowledge. You either like what lore makes them to be, or you don't. Either way, only thing really left is to enforce the rules for species.

In this case, we have a chance to design from the start, make lore and the species feel and play interesting. It's why everyone is encouraged to bring their ideas to the table.

[Zuhayr]

WrongEnd is IMPATIENT so I'm necroposting with a text he wanted to put here.

 

Hi, WrongEnd here posting with Zuh's account because of the admin activation thing. I'm the loremaster on Bay for the Resomi, and I wanted to explain the lore. There's a lot of misconceptions here.

They're not hyper-advanced. They've got a step up in nanorobotics (Which the - yes, quite shittily named, give me a better one please - temporary skill shots make use of.) and biology. But they refuse to develop AI and haven't even considered touching bluespace, and they travel with Alcubierre style drives instead of bluespace ones. The dyson rings may seem advanced, but in reality we could probably make them without even leaving our solar system. It's just something that requires a lot of effort we wouldn't be able to put forth without major societal and political upheaval. The Resomi are centralized enough that they can. Next, they've in general got a lot better medicine and diagnostics equipment then the other species, including a life extension treatment I won't go into detail here, but I encourage you read the wiki on them, and the aforementioned skill shots. Also, they're not so much isolated as extremely protectionist and mercantile, with trade being their lifeblood. They would collapse without trade.

[Killerhurtz]

That's... pretty much exactly the opposite of what I suggested, lmfao.

But I like this new idea. Differently-advanced species with protectionist tendencies.

[Guest]

I'm guessing that was the original lore, it would still need to be hammered down to fit the lore, more exactly, who they were trading with to begin with and their similarity to Vox.

Another AI-phobic race... yay.