Regulations Changes

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Now that we have our own regulations page, I've been wanting to do a low-key overhaul to it.

• Change "additional penalties" to "Repeat Offense".
• Remove insulting an officer on duty.
  
• Expand "Illegal detention" to have the officer demoted to cadet as the initial punishment.
  
• Add "Illegal search" for searches on green alert without probable cause or a warrant, including warrants for PDA message history. The punishment would be demotion to cadet for a time determined by the HoS.
  
  Probable cause will be defined as: Security (detective or CSI count) directly witnessing a crime in progress, or strongly suspecting that a crime is currently in progress. It's up to the HoS to determine if the warrantless search was necessary, and they must report each allowed search without warrant on green to IAA, or if a lack of one, CC..
  
• Change "excessive use of force in detainment" to a medium-level infraction.
  
• Add optional tracking implants to more of the medium and high level infractions that involve violence or being where you're not supposed to be.
  
• Define wtf parole is: and define it as being released early with a tracking implant, and parole is available for all non-serious infractions and can be decided by the HoS.
  
• Add the fact that the time spent in processing (interrogation, searching; the moment you step in the brig) subtracts from the eventual brig time.
  
  IE if you are being processed and questioned for 5 minutes, that 5 minutes is subtracted from your eventual brig time. Being held in processing for over 20 minutes makes the Warden and/or detaining officer punishable under "illegal detention"

 

Details on that last point:

Appeal for Indefinite holding

If someone commits a medium or major infraction, and the Warden/HoS feels someone needs to be held indefinitely over the processing time of 20 minutes, they can appeal for indefinite holding from the Captain, who makes the judgement and is held responsible for it. If there is no Captain, security has to appeal to IAA, who can make a temporary decision of indefinite holding or release until they fax CC for final judgement. (They have to fax CC. There is no loophole "waiting around to do it intentionally")

If there is no Captain or functioning IAA, it comes to a majority vote of all Command.

Minor Infractions

You cannot hold someone for more than 20 minutes for a minor infraction. None of the crimes are even briggable for more than 10 minutes except for the repeat offense.

What to do when rejected

If IAA's temporary decision is nulled by CC, or CC (or a late-join Captain, just to catch that loophole) otherwise says "stop that", the HoS has a grace period of 5 minutes to get everything in order and either release the individual or brig them for any proven charges. If a rejection of indefinite holding is given right away, they have to release the person after initial 20 minutes are up irregardless.

The HoS' loyalty implant does not allow him to break these rules. It becomes an admin issue if they circumvent these.

RED ALERT!!!!

The regulation on indefinite holding is suspended on red alert. All individuals can be held indefinitely, but security officers is still held responsible for his decision at the end of red alert.

Mercenaries and Other Intruders

People attacking the station are protected only under the excessive use of force in detainment regulation, are entitled to medical care, and cannot be executed unless they present an immediate clear and present danger. Otherwise, hold them until transfer! Keep them in solitary! Do whatever you think is necessary that doesn't kill them unless they really need to be dead. This sounds unfair to captured mercs but this is giving them more rights, which is hilarious.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Marlon Phoenix

[Frances]

Harassment should be added as a minor charge. (Maybe replacing insulting an officer?)

Also, I notice most "neglect of duty" charges tend to be given when the infraction isn't covered by corporate regulations, and it ends up being some sort of catch-all for "interfering with standard station activities". I have no suggestions off the top of my head, but perhaps we could brainstorm about the most common instances of neglect of duty (that aren't simply doing a job poorly, which is the initial purpose of the charge) and give them their own charges?

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Harassment should be added as a minor charge. (Maybe replacing insulting an officer?)

Also, I notice most "neglect of duty" charges tend to be given when the infraction isn't covered by corporate regulations, and it ends up being some sort of catch-all for "interfering with standard station activities". I have no suggestions off the top of my head, but perhaps we could brainstorm about the most common instances of neglect of duty (that aren't simply doing a job poorly, which is the initial purpose of the charge) and give them their own charges?

 

Having this catch-all term has been beneficial in most cases that I've seen, even where it can be super annoying for the individual in question, and I don't see it used that often that it's this jarring problem. At most I could see only making it applicable to engineers and doctors - in this new system we already have specific regulations against the most common sec abuses, so we don't need to stack another one on there, because that would be excessively unfair to security.

[Lady_of_Ravens]

I love the idea of indefinite detention. It makes me happy.

[rrrrrr]

Rename "Infiltration" to "Breaking and Entering", please. Infiltration sounds a little too.. I dunno, sinister?

[MagnificentMelkior]

Nice changes Senpai. But there is the issue of estimating time in processing. No one gets a timer out and times it. Also, as much as I'm in favor of it being more possible to lawyer your way through sec dealings, I don't think that a prisoner who deliberately wastes sec's time in processing should have the time count against their sentence. I suppose this could be resolved by adding a charge, or clarifying the legal applicability of an existing charge, for wasting time in processing.

However, it should be noted that simply remaining silent/not confessing should never be an acceptable example of "wasting sec's time"

[Conservatron]

why not just pull infiltration into trespassing?

[rrrrrr]

Because trespassing is less severe. You really don't give someone 3 minutes in the brig because they broke into R&D or the bridge, do you?

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Nice changes Senpai. But there is the issue of estimating time in processing. No one gets a timer out and times it. Also, as much as I'm in favor of it being more possible to lawyer your way through sec dealings, I don't think that a prisoner who deliberately wastes sec's time in processing should have the time count against their sentence. I suppose this could be resolved by adding a charge, or clarifying the legal applicability of an existing charge, for wasting time in processing.

However, it should be noted that simply remaining silent/not confessing should never be an acceptable example of "wasting sec's time"

 

It's not the brigged suspect's responsibility to prove his innocence by cooperating with questioning. "Wasting security's time" can just make them tire of questioning you, and they brig you with what evidence they have and you spend the time anyway.

[Guest]

One thing, it says the Head of Security must simply inform Internal Affairs, can we use this chance to provide Internal Affairs a little more oversight and make a note that if Internal Affairs reviews and decides that the search actually wasn't necessary, even if the HoS thought it was, the HoS must then take punitive action against their Officer, or in their absence the Captain?

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

One thing, it says the Head of Security must simply inform Internal Affairs, can we use this chance to provide Internal Affairs a little more oversight and make a note that if Internal Affairs reviews and decides that the search actually wasn't necessary, even if the HoS thought it was, the HoS must then take punitive action against their Officer, or in their absence the Captain?

 

i dont want a non-whitelisted position getting authority over a whitelisted position unless it asks CC or the Captain first.

[Guest]

Well, I kinda agree with Frances on the "Neglect of Duty" charge. It's catch all to the point where it can extends from accidentally leaving your flash in the wrong place to accidentally blowing up Science.

Maybe make a it "Light Protocol Infraction" and "Heavy Protocol Infraction". Dunno, something like that. It's still a catch all, but gives more options when punishing.

[LetzShake]

Rename "Infiltration" to "Breaking and Entering", please. Infiltration sounds a little too.. I dunno, sinister?

It should, I think its really only meant to be used in break-ins to the most secure places. But yeah these changes are all great

[Guest]

Infiltration IS only meant for breaking into: Science, the Bridge, the Teleporter, the Armoury, the Satellite, Head of Staff Offices.

It's for secure breaches of security.

[CampinKiller]

I don't like subtracting Processing time from Brig time at all. Your sentence is time spent in a cell, not time spent in the Brig itself. If you are taken to processing and have to be there for 5-10 minutes because of various reasons (search turned up more stuff, unforeseen circumstances, etc.), that shouldn't be subtracted from it. Plus it'd be difficult to keep track of, and people would bitch and moan if their sentence was off by 3 minutes because it's not easy to track.

EDIT: I also would think that there should be something for verbally abusing Security (which already takes a ridiculous amount of IC beating from uncooperative people), but that's just me.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I don't like subtracting Processing time from Brig time at all. Your sentence is time spent in a cell, not time spent in the Brig itself. If you are taken to processing and have to be there for 5-10 minutes because of various reasons (search turned up more stuff, unforeseen circumstances, etc.), that shouldn't be subtracted from it. Plus it'd be difficult to keep track of, and people would bitch and moan if their sentence was off by 3 minutes because it's not easy to track.

EDIT: I also would think that there should be something for verbally abusing Security (which already takes a ridiculous amount of IC beating from uncooperative people), but that's just me.

 

The mindset that processing time =/= brig time would be reasonable, but you have to understand that being in processing is functionally the same as being in a cell. The basis of punishment for the brig is being locked in a room for a certain length of time. The processing room is itself a place that you're locked into - unless you're being a lil shit and trying to escape repeatedly. The only difference between processing and the formality of being brigged is that security is compelled to talk to you and interact with you.

What benefits are there to adding the formality of a 20 minute time spent in the brig for a crime worthy of 20 minutes, which are on top of 15 minutes in processing, when all of this functionally punishes you with 35 minutes in the brig for a 20 minute crime? That's 15 minutes in the brig over your punishment. That's not even touching the times you can often be forgot while in processing.

[Frances]

I think that removing processing time from the sentence should be a guideline, but not a strict one. It can be pretty hard to keep track of exactly how much time people spend doing whatever without a timer, and part of the brig's punishment is having to go through processing. (Say you get booked for a 5 minute crime, since the booking will always take longer than 5 minutes you still don't get released as soon as you're processed. But the booking should also be at least mildly entertaining in comparison to the actual prison sentence).

Time should be removed from a sentence (at the warden's/officer's judgement) when it would be considered unfair for security to dish out a full sentence. Say you're trying to book someone for vandalism but sec gets delayed and they have to wait around in the brig for 15 minutes, you can let them go. Or if someone spends a while in interrogation, you should remove time from their sentence appropriately. Does that seem fair?

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Feedback from staff would really be appreciated. This doesn't require any coding, only administrative oversight both IC and OOC.

[Conservatron]

I think that removing processing time from the sentence should be a guideline, but not a strict one. It can be pretty hard to keep track of exactly how much time people spend doing whatever without a timer, and part of the brig's punishment is having to go through processing. (Say you get booked for a 5 minute crime, since the booking will always take longer than 5 minutes you still don't get released as soon as you're processed. But the booking should also be at least mildly entertaining in comparison to the actual prison sentence).

Time should be removed from a sentence (at the warden's/officer's judgement) when it would be considered unfair for security to dish out a full sentence. Say you're trying to book someone for vandalism but sec gets delayed and they have to wait around in the brig for 15 minutes, you can let them go. Or if someone spends a while in interrogation, you should remove time from their sentence appropriately. Does that seem fair?

actually i think the opposite

if you have a 5 minute sentence and take 15 minutes in processing, you book them and then chalk it up to time served and let them out

[Lady_of_Ravens]

Here's a solution: subtract "time served" from brig time, but only after doubling all the brig times. They're absurdly short as is.

[Guest]

Here's a solution: subtract "time served" from brig time, but only after doubling all the brig times. They're absurdly short as is.

 

I feel like this is a really bad idea.

Whatever happened to Gollee's updated Corp Regs with Yellow, Amber and Red-tier protocol infractions?

[Gollee]

Whasthistodowithme? The only thing I wrote up were punishments for DOs to hand out.

[Guest]

Huh. I dunno then, I remember being an updated form of the corp reg stuff, like Y01/Y02, A01, etc.

[Conservatron]

maybe have lesser infractions give time served

punching someone, low level theft, trespassing ect..

then have upper level things not, like infiltration, assault with weapon, resisting arrest/ fleeing officers

so you can have a system where someone who hops the bar and steals a bottle of alcohol gets let out after processing and record updates, while someone who would get a 30 minute charge keeps the full time even after processing. And it gives a reason to cooperate with sec because with time served, running from officers would probably result in no extra time in brig but if you run, that time can't be hand-waved.

of course all this requires sec to communicate and forces people to know the regs

[XChrisUnknownX]

I want to add support for adding processing time to ultimate brig sentence. I don't know if anyone has seen me warden as Chris Blade, but I regularly cut minutes off the sentence just because it's ridiculous to RP with these folks for 15 minutes and then throw them out of action for 10. It's like punishing them for being fun.

I disagree with doubling brig times. Any serious crime has hold until sentence, which is more than sufficient to end non-RP crims.