[Denied] Absynth science jobban appeal

[Absynth]

BYOND Key: Absynth

Total Ban Length: Perma science ban

Banning staff member's Key: Scheveningen (Delta)

Reason of Ban:

"Banned from Scientist, Geneticist, Roboticist, Xenobiologist, Lab Assistant - Extreme negligence to control research material as a xenobotanist, severe authority issues and awful roleplay behavior. Your actions should never over-arch that of the round antagonist. This is against the rules. This is not just incompetence, this is willfully breaking IC rules on purpose without any practical consideration for consequences. This ends now, sorry."

Reason for Appeal: (State your reason for why you think you should be unbanned)

All I did was make a mess in xenoflora and bring 4 ice peppers to the garden. There was another xenoflorist who got several people killed with his plants (I believe a chaplain stole them out of the garden), and I believe I was initially blamed for this and despite my protest and several witnesses saying it wasn't me, was still jobbanned. I have absolutely no idea what 'your actions should never over-arch that of the round antagonist' is supposed to imply, as I kept my science in R&D, didn't hurt a single person, didn't grow mutated plants outside of xenoflora, and have never been punished for anything even remotely like this before. A full science jobban for this seems ridiculous. This whole thing just smacks of an admin who was following me the whole round and looking for things to punish me with, and this is the best they could come up with.

[Guest Complete Garbage]

I think I was the gardener this round(?), and if this is the round I'm thinking of, then I can attest to the fact that Absynth brought the ice chilis to the garden. I believe he threw one somewhere near the morgue and someone got harmlessly teleported, but after that he kept all the materials inside the garden. I consider it to be a good thing when xenobiology/xenobotany collaborate with the service department, as it broadens the range of recipies that can be completed.

[Scheveningen]

My issue with lifting this jobban straight away is that it would countermand the point of issuing discipline when the person in particular outright refuses to hear a lesson in responsibility and accountability.

The garden is public access. Said ice chilis were re-appropriated by two crewmembers to throw two folks into space by the time the emergency shuttle was arriving, in addition with Absynth throwing an ice chili at a crewmember, who would strangely turn up dead in space later on in the round.

One person who threw the ice chilis appropriated out of the garden was permabanned as they logged out when questioned, and has yet to make an appeal. The other was ostensibly warned as it was their first related offense. The other xenobotanist, in fact, did not have any plants on their person, nor were there any logs of them throwing ice chilis at people, unlike Absynth who did on both accounts, and upon VVing I did find out Absynth was the one holding ice chilis with a teleportation mutation in her plant bag.

Personal testimony starts having less value when such overwhelming evidence is present to point in a different direction.

I'm curious. Why did you take out the equivalent of bluespace crystals outside of your own lab to the garden, which is public access and also definitely not the lab? Why should I lift another job-ban relating to your destructive science shenanigans if you ended up messing up a day after appealing the first one? What did you learn from the first time you were job-banned?

Not to chuck bombs at antagonists due to their destructive nature, right? In addition to, hopefully, understanding that blaming everyone but you is not exactly an ideal method to be undertaking if you want your ban appealed. I feel like there's a similar lesson here somewhere, but I am not too sure that was ever learned initially for this to make any sense to the OP now.

On top of acting like a complete brat in front of the RD who wanted you arrested, you flung many slurs their way during the point in time when I was watching, since more than a fair few of people had complained by then. You kicked and verbally fought your way to the brig and never once attempted to restrain yourself ICly because it got to the point where the lines were blurred in the distinction of whether it was the character, Sofia Pennington, was upset, or the player behind them.

Initially I supported your original unban from science. I cannot speak for the others, but the actions you took in this particular round betrayed any trust I held in that you wouldn't abuse your power as a scientist to screw over the round. Your attitude towards others has not improved much since then, so I cannot really support an unban without an administrator overruling it.

[Absynth]

I'm really baffled by the lack of truth in your post, Delta.

It wasn't ice chilis that killed the people outside, the splatter in escape was YELLOW, not blue. The other xenoflorist's plants were yellow. No ice peppers left the garden at any time, because they were on the counter and I was watching them. Your "evidence" is nothing but hearsay.

I never went to the brig or got arrested at all that round.

The security officer who I accidently teleported into the morgue came back and was vaguely annoyed, but definitely did not die, and didn't die by any xenoflora. Thanks for implying I was the cause of his death, though.

Explain how I "screwed over the round", please. Maybe with more honesty this time.

[Scheveningen]

Calling me a liar is not convincing me to lift this ban.

[Absynth]

To be fair, nothing I say is going to convince you, right? Because you won't even listen to the facts.

[DatBerry]

an xenobotanist leaving mutated bluespace plants in the open is akin to the warden ordering ion weapon crates and scattering the contents in the bar.

Both wont kill usually but they can both be both an annoyance and a lethal hazard.

I would like to request the logs for the round since both parties are conflicted on whether abby threw more peppers after the morgue incident or not, it may as well have been the other xenobotanist who completely finished his stock.

[Absynth]

I'm still confused even about what rule I broke. As far as I know I didn't break any, as the reason for my ban was "overshadowing the round antagonist", which I'm pretty sure I didn't do, pretty sure isn't an actual rule, and pretty sure the antag that round was a stealth wizard. It's not like I self antagged here.

[Scheveningen]

You threw both forms of plants at folks. Modified rice and ice peppers. Both got out of the lab and caused a lot of havoc and the other xenobotanist said they did not carry them out of the lab. According to VV, you had both the modified rice and the ice peppers in your plant bag. The other xenobotanist did not. He had no history of messing around in science and being self destructive, you did, guess who is the most likely suspect?

You did not seem to have an understanding of what a "short leash" is, either, so if you're confused as to why I was on guard after reports came in about you screwing around, it's because you just came off of a job-ban earlier. A chance that myself and the other staff decided to give you, and then you blew it.

•Conflict is acceptable, even if you are not an antag, but it needs to be believable, and meet roleplay standards. The average Joe will not simply decide to blow up their workplace one day. Keep in mind, the more drastic the action, the more motivated your character has to be to commit to it, and the consequences it brings. Unless you’re an antagonist, this motivation has to be developed through roleplay on the server: backstory cannot legitimize drastic things, such as trying to assault security staff because of a bad childhood, for example. It is also very much encouraged that you roleplay out the consequences to such conflict where possible.

•Only escalate conflict in a realistic manner - some characters might overreact, but you would not realistically go berserk or attempt to kill someone if they stole your prized pen, for instance. Again, your character must be motivated enough to commit to more drastic action, as they undertake it.

If we also wish to go further:

•Don't be a dick. We're all here to have fun, not fight and argue with assholes. Don't ruin the game for everyone else, and use common sense. This includes anything from attacking other people, starting arguments over nothing, etcetera. Note that this rule applies primarily to OOC, LOOC, AHELP, and DEADSAY.

Reason being:

 

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Inevitably I care very little about this incident itself, I would have lifted this job-ban right away if it weren't for a couple issues.

1.) You are often inflammatory and rude to other people, regardless of their status or station among the server.

2.) You are a bit of a bigot, you don't really apologize for what you say and you take accountability/responsibility for close to absolutely nothing.

3.) You do not handle in-game power OOCly well and you invoke emotional responses when defending yourself from criticism.

And that is largely attitude oriented. You have not really made any marked improvements in those three issues, either, if anything you've either stayed the same or gotten worse, I have not been paying enough attention to know exactly which. If these weren't factors and you just asked to have this appealed politely, I would have lifted this job-ban sooner. That would have surprised me, but it would've been less of a headache for the both of us, I would think. I'm not unreasonable, if people would take the time to be civil and list why they should be unbanned without resorting to being inflammatory, and concisely listed out why they think they should be unbanned, then I would have very little reason to not unban them.

I don't usually ban reasonable people though, nor does this team make it a point to ban people with similar descriptors.

Why should you have the job-ban lifted? This is poor handling of a job-ban on your part and looks rather immature.

[Absynth]

You're using conflict as a reason for banning me now? What conflict? What escalation? Who did I hurt in any way by any of my actions? You're being completely unreasonable for something that was extremely minor and I have never even been warned for before. Tell me why you're using escalation of conflict rules now instead of actually explaining the reason you gave for the ban, namely 'over-arching the round antagonist', which is 'against the rules'? (hint: It's not).

I was also told in round by admins that it was the other xenoflorist who's plants got people killed, not mine. Again, you're using hearsay as evidence. Not to mention, you stated you 'haven't seen an improvement' and then said you haven't been paying attention. Which is it?

I apologize when I've done something wrong, and in this case I have not. I am very polite, to admins who don't treat me like dirt.

[Scheveningen]

I was also told in round by admins that it was the other xenoflorist

 

Who told you, then? I'm curious as to how they've never said anything related to that in staff chat.

[Absynth]

I don't remember, it was like 2 months ago.

The point is that I have witnesses who agree that all I did was leave ice peppers there, which nobody took, meanwhile the other xenoflorist left plants everywhere and grew tons of them. You don't remember this conversation? I asked you why he wasn't punished and you said because it was his first offense despite him causing multiple people dying.

Way to deflect all my valid points and focus on stuff that doesn't matter, though.

[Scheveningen]

I do not recall telling you that I didn't punish him because it was his first offense. There was no evidence to suggest that he, alone, did anything wrong. I did check up on the end of the other xenobotanist before I placed the science ban on you, and there was no evidence, at all, pointing to him having thrown any plants at people. He said he had not left the lab nor left any of his plants outside of the lab. It would've been sloppy of me if I didn't check up on him first, because false positives can happen. Despite that, he didn't have any attack logs of having thrown plants at people from what I could have seen, you did. How modified rice got into the garden, I'm not sure, but one person in this thread says you were transporting plants out of the lab to the public access garden.

I can only assume this was extreme negligence on your end. I am not blaming you solely for spacing two people, but your actions got them spaced because two non-regulars (one with a record of violating RP guidelines and server rules, one without a record) got their hands on modified rice. Because you ignored directive four, on purpose, as you had done a few times prior leading up to your previous science ban before this one.

Why were you carrying modified rice in your plant bag, why did you take it out of the lab if you knew it was dangerous, why did you throw modified rice at an officer, and why did you allow for it to be accessed through the garden?

[JKJudgeX]

I wasn't involved at all and don't know the whole story, but, from what I've read here, how in the world did something like this result in a PERMANENT, apparently unappealable department job ban?

Even considering prior job bans. From what I've read here, he didn't actually himself abuse the things he grew? Somebody grew something dangerous. I don't see the big deal. There are whole canisters of phoron sitting right there that anyone with a science badge can drag out into a hall and open up... welder tanks and welders sitting all around that any assistant can grab and ignite or use to poison people, etc... 5 million ways to wreck people in this game, and this guy loses access to a whole department forever for making one of those and someone ELSE using it? How many times have the xenobiologists unleashed slime rampage upon coworkers and gotten absolutely no punishment?

Seems a bit heavy of a punishment to me for growing ice peppers, unless said peppers concluded the round and blew up the whole station and crashed the server or something.

[Scheveningen]

apparently unappealable department job ban?

 

I don't think you think you know what you're saying. This thread would not be up if this ban was unappealable. There are no unappealable bans, save only one case.

Until I hear Absynth take accountability for their actions and how it affected other players, directly or not, and promise they will not incur any further egregious infractions relating to science in the future. Otherwise, I will be forced to deny this appeal, as it would defeat the whole purpose of disciplining a player who refuses to be cooperative, refuses to look back on their own actions and analyze where the fault actually lies in making those decisions. Administrators and moderators don't force you to do anything. It is a person's own choice whether they decide to follow the rules, or say "eh" and do their own thing. There are consequences, good or bad, for doing either.

It is not cruel and unusual to ask someone to self-reflect on their actions. One must take reasonable amounts of responsibility in relation to what happens, accept that if what they did was wrong it does not deserve repeating, and understand they should play with more caution and consideration to the lives of other characters while in-game, and take safety measures accordingly. They should recognize that not doing so, causes more damage than it helps, even if their intentions were the opposite of malicious.

It is important to make the effort to avoid making the same ineffective decisions, whether bad judgement or a mistake, over and over, because in doing so exemplifies harmful ignorance that eventually develops into perceivable maliciousness if left to fester.

[Jboy2000000]

Ill just throw in my opinion here, and say Im against an unban here. Not only because you never seem to grasp that you shouldn't be bringing mutated plants outside of science, but because you played xenobotanist, after you said Sofia Pennington retired from xenobotany to close an investigation against her, and then later came back and started playing xenobotany again, doing the same thing that started the report that made you say she retired in the first place.

[Absynth]

Until I hear Absynth take accountability for their actions and how it affected other players, directly or not, and promise they will not incur any further egregious infractions relating to science in the future.

 

"Just admit that I am right and you're wrong, despite evidence to the contrary"

 

They should recognize that not doing so, causes more damage than it helps, even if their intentions were the opposite of malicious.

 

What damage did I do exactly?

If I had rice in my bag it was from the other xenoflorist's plants on the floor being scooped up accidently, or from a much earlier batch I made that contained flour, cocoa and sugar. We've already established that I didn't leave any out on the floor, how can they teleport out of my bag and into the chaplain's hands?

In any case, none of that is actually the reason for my ban, I was banned for, "Your actions should never over-arch that of the round antagonist" (what) and "willfully breaking IC rules". I am pretty sure that if any of my actions were the cause of any harm in the round it would have actually been mentioned in the ban reason, right?

[JKJudgeX]

I'd really like to see the logs on this to know whether Absynth threw peppers or not. It's pretty much implied in this thread that he did. If he says he didn't and called a mod a liar in his appeal, then that's big trouble.

If he didn't, well, then this gets very interesting.

Making ice peppers that never got abused just doesn't seem like it can be a reason for a permanent department ban. Making ice peppers that you then yourself abuse, and lie about doing so in an appeal sounds more like time for an upgrade to permanent server ban to me though.

[Scheveningen]

It's enough to deny an appeal.

I waited two days to hear anything from a staff member evidently telling the OP that their plants "didn't kill anyone" and that it was the other xenobotanist causing the deaths. We've had close to no line-up change in administrators in the past month. Maybe two stepped down to moderator, but none have quit since the 1st of June.

Nobody spoke up. Inclined to believe that what Absynth said was not true. If this appeal is of any indication, you should not lie to have your ban appealed. You shouldn't lie, ever. It gets you into a worse situation than if you told the truth. That being said, unless I see marked improvement from the OP in the coming months, Absynth would be hard-pressed to get this ban appealed ever.

Appeal denied.