[Accepted] Week Job Unban Appeal: Nathan Corvo

[JKJudgeX]

BYOND Key: JKJudgeX

Total Ban Length: 1 week Job Ban

Banning staff member's Key: Pikl

Reason of Ban: Used an EMP grenade on a Ninja in security

Reason for Appeal:

Situation:

Ninja appears aboard, in command area. We greet him and he explains that he needs to repair his ship. He demonstrates ninja abilities to us but ensures us that he is harmless and that we should help him. His name is Dragon. We agree after brief deliberation and assign someone to escort him about.

Soon thereafter, reports come in that he has netted someone. He goes to security to be talked to about this. I show up as Captain (Nathan Corvo) to figure out what's up. He says he had to teach her a lesson about honor or something. I explain that his honor code can't be used to hurt the crew, and that NT regulations will serve as his new code of honor aboard the vessel, or we will react in extreme punitive fashion.

The Ninja extends a blade and emotes pressing it against my chest, and is stopped by his chaperone that we've assigned.

I excuse myself from the interrogation room and order that the ninja be arrested.

Officers attempt to arrest him, but are unsuccessful because they can't cuff him. He continues to act indignant and in control, and at this point we are helpless to actually arrest or stop him, since he can turn invisible or teleport.

I am advised via whisper by security that we have to disable his suit before we will be able to arrest him. I go and get EMP grenades, because it has been repeatedly made clear by the ninja that his technological suit cannot be removed and is the source of his weaponry and powers. I return, and order everyone to get clear.

Repeatedly, I tell members of security to get clear. I have distributed two EMP grenades to other security and the HoP, and have whispered about EMP grenades to a couple of others as well.

Everyone gets clear. I enter the room with the ninja and we stand have a short stand off. I prime the grenade, and he vanishes, I throw it, and it goes off. The ninja re-appears and attempts to avoid me. I hit him in the leg several times with the extendable baton to incapacitate him. I try to remove some of his gear, and find that I can't take much of it off.

My intention was not to kill this antag, nor end his antag round, nor terminate his narrative. I was enjoying our back and forth RP, and just wanted to throw in a little bit of action. I was thinking that the round would go on for at least 30 more minutes and he would escape security, etc, after we got him healed up, and that we would have more encounters.

I retreat from the room, giving him space, and inform security that they are now to detain him and see to his health. A minute or so later, for reasons I do not know, he self-destructs, hurting a bunch of people.

I am adminhelped about throwing an EMP grenade in security.

1) I did not realize how absolutely huge an EMP grenade explosion was.

2) I could not formulate any other way to temporarily disable him or stop him from teleporting/cloaking long enough for us to do anything about it.

3) No one died as a result of this EMP grenade.

4) No one but the ninja died as a result of his, in my opinion, unreasonable self-destruct.

5) I explained these things in full to Pikl, and received a week-long command role ban.

6) Yes, this did hurt some security guys who had cybernetic parts, again, didn't know the range was that huge, and, again, nobody died and everyone was treated.

Yes, I understand an EMP grenade is dangerous because someone can have a cybernetic heart, and that people are put into pain when they have cybernetic limbs. Nathan Corvo has cybernetic limbs and was ready to deal with that pain in order to stop this threat to the crew. Again, this was meant to be a move to demonstrate to the ninja that we were not helpless against him, and in no way was there any kind of plan to kill this ninja, since he had not actually killed anyone yet. But he had threatened the captain's life with a weapon, in front of security.

Normally, I'd just take my licks and move on, but this didn't seem right or fair to me as anything more than a quick "hey, be more careful with EMP grenades", which I would have just been like "alright".

I asked Pikl what his suggestions were for roping in a dangerous person who had threatened command personnel when they have a ninja suit. He did not seem to have an answer or any kind of suggestion regarding how I *should* have handled the scenario instead. Security had already tried to arrest him to no avail. The next step in my mind was "lethals, go" or, use an EMP and incapacitate the Ninja and dissolve the situation without fatalities.

Outside of that, it seems that the options were "well, okay, I know he just put a laser sword to me in plain view of everyone, but, let him wander around some more" but that seemed like bad RP, too.

In any event, a ban like this goes on my record, and I've been playing Captain a lot recently and generally trying to be very helpful to new and old players alike by occupying a rather unforgiving role, and this was kind of a shock. You guys know I've played here for years, I probably have one or two notes from using bombs as antags which you should note has entirely curtailed, but outside of those old issues, I'd bet that 95% of my interactions as command staff have been satisfactory in terms of RP and understanding the position.

The punishment should fit the crime. Nobody's round was even ended by my actions, but this concludes my whole week of play. I'm just saying, that's a bit out of bounds IMO.

I would like the ban removed and for it to be removed from my record.

Thank you for your time.

[Catnip]

For reference, here is the full ban reason:

Banned from Captain, Head of Personnel, Head of Security, Chief Engineer, Research Director, Chief Medical Officer - Given your notes, and the lack of a previous jobban, I'm issuing a week-long command position ban. During this time, I encourage you to think about proper antag handling, and the weight of your actions as command staff. It's a lot to manage, and I know you show the dedication, I believe that you need a break, however. Should you wish to be unbanned early, I recommend making an appeal on the forums.

[pickled_tomato]

Right. Here's my view of the situation. I'm informed of a captain throwing an EMP, surrounded by members of security, in the processing room of newmap. I then see logs of said captain beating the ninja with his telescopic baton. As I ask around, what I'm told is that this captain interrupted RP that security was having with the ninja, yelled for everyone to clear the room, waited several seconds (nobody had cleared the room), then threw an EMP. The EMP then putting multiple members of security into pain-crit, as they had synthetic limbs.

Right off the bat, even if you weren't interrupting RP, you threw an EMP at a singular target. I know why you did this, and I don't agree with your reasoning. You wanted to subdue the ninja who was already in the processing room, as he was making threats towards you. This is fine, until you consider that there is an entire security force right next to you, ready to respond. The security force is armed with non-extreme, non-lethal forms of detainment. Tasers, stun-batons, rubber rounds, even hand to hand. You had this ninja outnumbered, you had them already in your processing room, and you still threw the EMP. And yes, I did mention all of these options to you while PMing you. Please do not say:

I asked Pikl what his suggestions were for roping in a dangerous person who had threatened command personnel when they have a ninja suit. He did not seem to have an answer or any kind of suggestion regarding how I *should* have handled the scenario instead. Security had already tried to arrest him to no avail. The next step in my mind was "lethals, go" or, use an EMP and incapacitate the Ninja and dissolve the situation without fatalities.

 

The thing that concerns me about this is that you don't seem to see a flaw in throwing the EMP. You admit that it might possibly have a larger radius than you intended. You make a point as to how nobody died. You don't seem to care that you pain-crit much of security. Some of which may have had mechanical hearts. You effectively shut down the main antagonist of the round, and most of security, in one swift blow. This isn't what command staff are for. Not to mention that the ninja decided that, as their suit was dead, and they were being dragged out of security, that it was best if they self-detonated. The round turned into extended from that point on.

I applied the ban to give you time to reflect upon your actions, and I don't think that you've done that.

[JKJudgeX]

I was participating in the RP with the ninja. I was the first to do so when he arrived, and I was continuing to do so in that room. I offered plenty of dialogue and actions for him to play on, and his choice was to threaten with a sword, escalating what was otherwise just a conversation. As a matter of fact, I'm not sure security had plans to let him interact with much of the crew at all had it not been for command, myself included, playing along with his (honestly not very good - no offense) gimmick.

That escalation was an EMP grenade only after security failed to arrest him, as ordered. They indicated they were not CAPABLE of arresting him while his suit was active.

Since there was no HoS to defer to, I just tried to deactivate his suit so that he could be arrested. I had no idea this would result in him committing suicide, nor did I think this would end the round, nor did I think that all of security would be harmed by a single EMP grenade.

Again, no one's round was concluded, or even necessarily ruined by my actions. I don't see how ruining my whole week of play is in any way a measured response to me hurting a ninja that pulled a sword on me after he was given plenty of opportunity to play it cool and walk 100% free... and opportunity even after the EMP weapon to be treated and interacted with and role-played with for as long as he wanted.

Clearly, it's not something I would do again, since I was unaware that one EMP grenade in this situation could result in such a ridiculously heavy punishment.

[pickled_tomato]

Here are a couple of specifics as to why you received the ban, other than what I already stated:

You did the one thing that would shut down the ninja, and you did it without really caring, it seems. The ninja's allowed to exist, and you're allowed to allow them to exist. They drew a sword, yes. And you took away all of their power, minus self-destruct, as a result. I'm unsure why you were carrying around EMPs with you in the first place, but it doesn't look good to me. You're allowed to be concerned over your station, and your crew, of course. You're allowed to use this concern as justification for your actions. What you're not allowed, or at the very least supposed to do, is end the story before it's reached its climax. Which is what I believe you did.

That being said, given your willingness to acknowledge the problem, and make an appeal, the command ban has been shortened to three days.

I encourage you to play antag roles, and/or non-command staff roles around the station in the meantime.

As for removal of it from your records, I'm afraid that's not plausible.

One last note: Please avoid posting content involving things that happened during the round until after the round is over. There was still about 30 minutes of round left at the time that you posted this.

Thank you for your appeal.

[JKJudgeX]

1) The ninja had agreed not to be a further threat and then suddenly, for no reason, re-negged on that by pulling the sword. It was made 100% clear to him that he would be crushed underfoot if he raised another security threat, and then he immediately did so, with not even a good reason to do so. Even after this, he was *STILL* given opportunity to relent and chose to remain conflictive, thus leaving me the choice of telling security to go weapons hot, or try one more non-lethal thing. It had already been said that tasers do not work on him on radio.

By pulling a blade on a captain who had just told him he was alright if we got no more trouble from him, he convinced me that if I let him leave that room without being shown that we meant business, that he would have in fact killed someone before the shift was over. This meant action had to be taken, and since words, cuffs, and tasers hadn't proved effective, it was time to try something else.

2) He had ALREADY committed multiple briggable offenses which we could not brig him for at this point. (trespassing, assaulting someone, displaying weapons, etc), and it had been proven that he could not be cuffed, nor tased.

3) I wasn't "carrying around EMP grenades" as I already explained, but, I see you trying to make it look like I was meta-ing the ninja, which I was not. The ninja made it clear the instant he arrived, all of us RP pretending not to know what a ninja was, that he could not be disarmed without removing his suit, which would harm him to do so, he purported. When security indicated they could not restrain him, it stood to reason that he could be restrained if he was EMPed. I began whispering to command and security officers that I was going to go retrieve EMP grenades, and I did so, while he was in the room "detained". Upon my return, security was still unable to subdue him, so, I stepped in with the EMP grenade to put him down.

Here's an excerpt:

"Nathan Corvo"If I get another security concern out of you today, Dragon, I am going to sterilize your whole situation without another question. Are we clear?"

Nathan Corvo"Are. We. Clear?"

Dragon"" Very clear.

Nathan Corvo"Good. You're welcome to gather tools and repair your craft."

Nathan Corvo"But I've got no time or interest in putting my crew at risk on your behalf

Dragon"My culture is bound by honor."

Dragon"As yours are bound by laws."

Nathan Corvo"Not here it isn't."

Nathan Corvo"Here is NT."

Dragon"They are one and the same. I didn't realize that."

Nathan Corvo"Your culture exists outside the walls of this station and away from this asteroid. I'll let my guys help you get back to that, until then, our corporate regulations will supplant your 'honor'."

LOOC:

Dragon:Mromi. I'm about to do something dumb

Dragon releases an energy sowrd from his arm, placing the blade agains the Captain's suit..

and so on from there. He even said he was gonna do something dumb in LOOC, knowing it wasn't smart... was still given huge time to get free or escape the EMP, etc...

4) Even before deploying the EMP, I stood face to face with him for a good 30 seconds with the EMP in my hand, in his reach. I was telling everyone to clear out, and then gave him further time to react. This was me literally giving him the opportunity to disarm me, to run, to say something, to teleport, to do ANYTHING.

5) After he was EMPed, he could have done any number of things to continue RP and the round and chose not to.

[pickled_tomato]

I'm afraid that what you've said does not change my view on what happened. You threw the EMP, and then you harm tele-batoned him. With everything that I've said before as my reasoning, I believe a three day command ban is still fair, opposed to a seven, which was too long.

I'd like to add a note though that everyone has a record. Things like this happen. The best you can do is think, learn, and move on, and three days seems like a fair period to do so. You may feel the need to further justify yourself, and if you do, you may put a staff complaint on me.

Either or, this thread is now closed. Again, thank you for your appeal.

[Coalf]

Locking thread on Pikl's request.