[Denied] ReynTime13 Sec permaban

[ReynTheLord]

BYOND Key: ReynTime13

Total Ban Length: permanent from security

Banning staff member's Key: IncognitoJesus

Reason of Ban: The ban reason which shows up: You do not appear jobbanned from this job. If you are still stopped from entering the role however, please adminhelp.

Reason for Appeal: The situation which brought this occurance into being was a huge mess, honestly, We all did something wrong, and it turned into a downwards spiral of stress. I know better than to pull shit like that at all now, and, of course, I know to drop my accusations of metagame. I no longer stand by my decision to do such action with a gun, and I will strive to only pull a weapon on someone when nessecary. I will keep in mind to make sure my evidence is completely solid to make sure that the case isn't waved off like this again, and I will avoid overreacting in such volitile ways in the future. I've been working on this sort of behaviour for a while. Plus, the best way to get better at detective in relation to the rules of this server is to play detective on this server. Not to mention, No warnings or anything I can easily access pop up in relation to the ban when I investigate it, but I blame it on a glitch in the system, Because I know Ingcog is quite compitent. I will, however, state that the situation was a mess for pretty much everyone involved.

Along with it being somewhat my fault, it's likely also the fault of some degree of misscommunication and different levels of knowledge about corporate regulations, along with some new engineer being ungodly incompitent and stupid. So, yeah. However, I will try to make sure such a situation goes better next time.

As you likely expect, I will be making an effort to prevent any behaviour like this in the future, and I will correct any errors in my actions which you bring up.

Also, I don't see any warnings noting a potential future security jobban, but that's likely irrelevant.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Guest

[ReynTheLord]

Also I forgot to not post this before the round was over, sorry.

[ReynTheLord]

I'll have to edit this to remove salt, just a sec

[Bath Salts Addict]

Hello. I play Adolph Hammerstein, the Warden who witnessed most of the situation go down as well as the one that laid down the law. Before I go into my point of view regarding the whole situation, I'd like to note that Cherry had made copies of the piece of evidence that turned out to be the root of this problem.

I heard Cherry complain about the officer, Jawdat (Not Jackboot's Jawdat), destroying her evidence or some such. Then, in the distance, I heard the faint sound of someone being aimed at. Going to investigate, I found Cherry holding up Jawdat at gunpoint with her revolver. I told Cherry to put the gun away while she screamed about what he did. Eventually, either from her manually doing it or from Jawdat moving, using his radio, or reaching for something, he was shot around 3-4 times by Bethney Cherry. At no point after the first shot was fired (the detective revolver has a generally slow fire rate) did she attempt to stop, resulting in her being tased by both Jawdat and I. This altercation left Jawdat with a fractured ribs, internal bleeding and severe blood loss and if medical hadn't responded quickly it's possible he would have died. Granted, Jawdat did wander over to Cherry as she was being subdued and continued to attack her, and for that he was brigged after receiving medical treatment. After discussing it with the Head of Security that round, Lukas Chapman, he agreed that a HuT sentence should be delivered and Bethney Cherry was processed, screaming and acting in a manner befitting a greyshirt on /tg/station or Goon. At no point did she consider the fact that she had given a copy of that same piece of evidence to me, nor did she attempt to perform damage control for the situation when others arrived on the scene.

When Jawdat was brigged after returning from Medical, the situation was taken to LOOC where she accused him (or me) of being the sole reason behind her secban. The conversation may have gotten more venomous, but I wasn't paying much attention. When Jawdat was allowed into communal, she immediately attacked him before quitting the game and going SSD as soon as she was subdued.

While it's no skin off my back whether or not this ban sticks, I feel like providing my point of view would assist in reaching a final verdict. However, I feel as if Reyn should understand that Security is not a role you should play if you're prone to anger. Being ICly angry is one thing, and I know Sec can be stressful at times, but this is simply not a department you should play if you can't keep a level head OOCly, as Reyn has failed to show they possess. Were I an admin, and possibly thankfully I am not, I would make this ban stick, at least for a month or so to give them chance to improve. Furthermore, as this situation was primarily an IC one between two non-antags regarding evidence against a non-antag crewmember that escalated into something potentially deadly, I would also consider barring Reyn from playing Bethney Cherry at all due to the fact they were arrested for attempted murder and, regardless of whether or not they were convicted, it would be highly unlikely they would be allowed to continue working with NanoTrasen.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Guest

[ReynTheLord]

Yeah, that was when i was shocked by the ban, sorry. also, icly, he did bring me to crit. I was still salty at that point, sorry man. Also, I'm rather suprised the revolver did more than one shot, probably because taking out a tazer from their belt took multiple steps. Also, "At no point did she consider the fact that she had given a copy of that same piece of evidence to me, nor did she attempt to perform damage control for the situation when others arrived on the scene."

You were not listening to a thing i said the entire time, and you showed no interest in the transcript i gave you.

[DatBerry]

you aimed a gun because the guy disagreed with your opinion, not only that, everyone in the department seemed to disagree with you and your desire to arrest the engineer, so why did you aim a lethal weapon at an officer who may have been following the HoS's orders in not arresting said engineer?

the HoS, the officer and the warden all ignored you, did you consider you were missing out on something? maybe you misunderstood something?

There was a clear lack of communications, I wasn't there so i can't really tell, but it appears both the warden and officer knew and probably the HoS too, so I'm guessing you didn't pay attention to the radio/disconnected/was busy when they talked about it. so i wouldn't count this against you.

also disregarding your revolver being filled with lethal bullets or underestimating what lethal bullets do, this is one of the two big sins new detectives fall for, which you did in this event. You only aim when you're in a situation that justifies shooting the person if they move, an officer disregarding you is NOT one, you can't aim at someone, have them move, fill them with 4 bullets and put the responsibility on them, and as stated by BSA, you almost sent them to the shadow realm over that small incident.

and I want to know what mental gymnastics you took that validated aiming a gun at the officer for disagreeing with you because a detective cant go do the arrest himself? what do you call aiming a lethal gun at someone, enforcing justice? It's out of your job's realm to see through that the arrest is handled and to deal with anything that stops it, your job is to investigate and that's pretty much it, unless you witnessed the officer unhandcuff a murderer you witnessed with your own eyes, you rarely if ever take direction action beyond reporting it.

even if the evidence was valid, those steps you took were definitely not so. neglecting duty is not a charge that justified lethal weaponry on it's own, ever.

[sonicgotnuked]

I never really interacted with Reyn's security characters but what I hear, he does sound kinda validy when it comes down to things, like what Berry explained. It is not my place to judge if it is not, but I would like to point out he does have an IPC white list. IPC security are a little worry and they are horrible if they start valid hunting, they need to learn security very well and be competent role players to allow antags leeway. I feel that is something that needs to be pointed out.

[ReynTheLord]

Hell, At this point, I know I wasn't entirely in the right in that situation, I just want to get my ability to play detective back and work on not doing something like this ever again. Also, I admit to the original post being filled with salt, as I originally made this right after the ban, however, i have edited this post due to understanding the situation better and calming down.

[incognitojesus]

 

This is the reason you were banned.

I honestly would like to hear what you'd say to what DatBerry posted because he makes a point which I'm very curious to hear, and that is what sort of mental gymnastics did you use in order to make the decision that upon the officer hitting delete, you would immediately draw your revolver and aim it. I feel as though I know what you're going to say here, and it's that you play a "loose cannon cop who doesn't play by the rules," but that doesn't fly here. Police officers don't just gun down their coworkers when there are disagreements between them, and it's not like the evidence actually disappeared off of the face of the Earth. It was a bad call, and I feel as though you never quite got the grasp of the fact that the detective firing lethals at any chance they get is a stupid move both ICly and OOCly. But you've been spoke to regarding this in the past. Now, people may be wondering how far back in the past, but it was honestly, only three days ago. Two days, really, since it's only 48 minutes after midnight as I'm writing this. You were spoken to regarding using lethals and the thought process that should go into when to use it and when not to. You use lethals for literally everything. I've watched you, as a detective, use a revolver to stop a fistfight between two chefs. In this situation, you could have

A.) Tried speaking to the rest of security and informing them of what happened.

B.) Gotten into contact with the HoS about the evidence.

C.) Spoken to the IA Agent who was on board at the time.

D.) Filed an IR regarding the incident.

E.) Filed a player complaint.

F.) Ahelped

G.) Just tried talking to the guy and asking him why he did it and sorting it out that way.

H.) Reporting it to another officer.

Any of the above options could have been done if you'd just stopped to think about your actions rather than just firing at the hip.

Moving on, I'm honestly not going to lift this ban not only for the aforementioned reasons, but also because of your reaction to it. Rather than quietly making this appeal, you decided to not only rage and curse at me in discord VOIP, but to also vent your salt in LOOC and in adminhelps and in the public discord, breaking the IC in OOC (that's where I got this wicked sick addition to my forum signature) to the extent that Muncorn had to tell you to cut it out and that further salt would result in punishment. I am glad that Muncorn took the initiative to do so because I would have applied a regular day ban or three day ban instead. You have edited your OP thirteen times which goes to show the patchwork job this appeal has done of trying to give any sort of reason why you should be unbanned, and I honestly cannot find a reason to. Not to mention your insistent claims that you were being metagrudged and that it was all the player of Jawdat's fault. I don't exactly understand how you can try to pass the blame when it was you who decided to escalate things to an above and beyond level.

My final verdict stays, the ban is holding until you reapply at a date no earlier than two weeks from now. I would recommend you take a month, though, to explore different jobs and roles and find a niche that you feel comfortable doing with your characters where they think like a person rather than just a tool that allows you to point and click and try not to be...

Locking and archiving.