Milos Twine's Armband

[Kozi32]

BYOND Key: Kozi32

Character name: Milos Twine

Item name: Polish Armband Replica

Why is your character carrying said item to work?

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To tell co-workers a history of milos Country, a sad history of fights and dying beacuse one nation tried to conquer the second one.

Item function(s): Just an armband

Item description: Replica of Armband from old european country

Item appearance: https://www.flagi-24.pl/images/panstwa/polska_walczaca.png .. if it is not possible to make anchor..just white-red

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How will you use this to better interact with crew and/or stimulate RP? I would like to tell a history of Poland to crew who are bored and want to listen.

Additional comments: I though to make that application after 11.11 (a day of independence of Poland), but it delayed for today.

[tbear13]

Admittedly I've never seen this character, or you, but.. why? An armband for a nation that hasn't existed for 400(correct me if i'm wrong) years. This would be like walking around with a flag for some small, random nation from the 1600s that got annexed by a larger one, you just don't do that.

I like that you wanna interact and tell a story, but why not make it about a planet in the outer colonies or something? Tell a story about a relevant, modern thing.

[Kozi32]

You dont saw me or my character?, seems i dont play at that same time as you.. about that "nation who doesnt exist for 400 years", if you see a reconstruction group of nazi's shooting themself with blanks ammo to show peoples how fights look like you will stand between and say "Its doesnt exist, dont do it... fight like modern".. or if you will see a romanian soldier reconstruction dude you will ask him to wear modern clothes beacuse romanian empire doesn't exist anymore?.. Tell a story about modern time isn't always a great idea for everyone, a lot of peoples likes to watch or hear stories about long story things, why we learn about spartans history?, we should not beacuse MODERN, i want to present history and it will make me happier to show..

"You just dont that".. Please say this to someone who likes history to dont learn that, it's just annexed country... no more cares about it

[tbear13]

You dont saw me or my character?, seems i dont play at that same time as you.. about that "nation who doesnt exist for 400 years", if you see a reconstruction group of nazi's shooting themself with blanks ammo to show peoples how fights look like you will stand between and say "Its doesnt exist, dont do it... fight like modern".. or if you will see a romanian soldier reconstruction dude you will ask him to wear modern clothes beacuse romanian empire doesn't exist anymore?.. Tell a story about modern time isn't always a great idea for everyone, a lot of peoples likes to watch or hear stories about long story things, why we learn about spartans history?, we should not beacuse MODERN, i want to present history and it will make me happier to show..

"You just dont that".. Please say this to someone who likes history to dont learn that, it's just annexed country... no more cares about it

 

I see where you're coming from here, but wearing something like this to work and actively bringing it up and studying at home, they're different things. OOCly speaking, this doesn't add any interesting RP in my opinion. ICly speaking, there's no reason to bring something like this to work. But y'know, just my opinion here.

[AmoryBlaine]

It's out of place. Would compare it to an American office worker wearing a tricorne in Hong Kong so he can bring up the War of Independence with his coworkers.

[Kozi32]

In Poland we dont mind when Ukrainians, Murricans(yeah, there's a lot of USA students in Poland) and other countries celebrate their independence day, why it should be a issue for example in hong kong?...

btw. Poland exist in European Union as map speaks https://wiki.aurorastation.org/images/thumb/9/98/EarthLabelled.png/1200px-EarthLabelled.png so for someone who will say "Dead nation".. answer is ready friends :>

[AmoryBlaine]

In Poland we dont mind when Ukrainians, Murricans(yeah, there's a lot of USA students in Poland) and other countries celebrate their independence day, why it should be a issue for example in hong kong?...

btw. Poland exist in European Union as map speaks https://wiki.aurorastation.org/images/thumb/9/98/EarthLabelled.png/1200px-EarthLabelled.png so for someone who will say "Dead nation".. answer is ready friends :>

 

That isn't the point. The point is it makes no sense for the average person to wear historical regalia in order to tell their co-workers* about their nationalistic pride. In the past there was a request for an IRA tricolour beret. This is in the same spirit of that application. The beret was denied.

The example of an American wearing a tricorne and using it to spur on talks of independence and liberty while in Hong Kong still stands to show the oddness of the idea.

[Kozi32]

IRA was really a terrorist group... its like to submit an app for ISIS Flag ... this is NOT that same spirte of app..

[AmoryBlaine]

IRA was really a terrorist group... its like to submit an app for ISIS Flag ... this is NOT that same spirte of app..

 

The IRA is a lot of things to a lot of different people. Both the Polish resistance and the Irish Republican Army have used violence and sabotage in order to try and remove the foreign powers within their territory. Either way, both would be about 400-500 years prior to the [Current Year] and so- again- I bring up the example of the American with the tricorne speaking of the revolution in the workplace- while in a foreign country.

[Kozi32]

First thing.. Polish Resistance is not an Terrorist group (and never was) so stop using IRA, you should use other "resistance" groups.

Second Thing.. I only want to admit to the history, not for speak about revolution..

[AmoryBlaine]

First thing.. Polish Resistance is not an Terrorist group (and never was) so stop using IRA, you should use other "resistance" groups.

Second Thing.. I only want to admit to the history, not for speak about revolution..

 

This is becoming foolish. You don't see the hypocrisy of labeling one resistance group as "Terrorists" while praising another? I think you've invested too much of your own nationalistic pride into this.

[Kozi32]

First thing.. Polish Resistance is not an Terrorist group (and never was) so stop using IRA, you should use other "resistance" groups.

Second Thing.. I only want to admit to the history, not for speak about revolution..

 

This is becoming foolish. You don't see the hypocrisy of labeling one resistance group as "Terrorists" while praising another? I think you've invested too much of your own nationalistic pride into this.

 

Labeling one resistance as terrorist when even Irelands dudes says they are terrorist... and Polish resistance was fighting over Nazi's( if you dont know.. theird reich was not part of Poland, that was another country)

[AmoryBlaine]

Labeling one resistance as terrorist when even Irelands dudes says they are terrorist... and Polish resistance was fighting over Nazi's( if you dont know.. theird reich was not part of Poland, that was another country)

 

>and Polish resistance was fighting over Nazi's( if you dont know.. theird reich was not part of Poland, that was another country)

What argument are you trying to make?

>Labeling one resistance as terrorist when even Irelands dudes says they are terrorist...

*The "IRA" is a "Terrorist" group because they did not win. In the same way, the Polish Home Army is a "Resistance" group because they won. You do not understand how things work, you've put too much of your own blind patriotism into this and it isn't reflecting very well on you in my opinion.

It still stands that no one will be wearing the armband of a long defunct partisan group from an Earth nation in Tau Ceti at work to tell tales of the heroism of their ancestors.

[Kozi32]

IRA has been defeated but Polish resistance too has too been defeated.. by soviets.. Patriotism is allways blind beacuse that learn to love a country, and i dont care about your opinion, i'm actually a soldier maybe beacuse that is a reason why so much i'm "Blind". but like i said, i dont care about your opinion, we are on internet equal.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Characters bring memorabilia of their homeland to the station all the time. Everywhere we look there's artifacts of someone's faction. An armband for an Earth nation seems fine to me. There is precedent for Earthlings to be particularly proud about their heritage against the juggernaut of the Alliance. Pride in local traditions and history is an important part of many characters. If Martians can have pride for local states and want to express this through custom items, then so can earthlings. As long as Kozi knows the gist of how Earth went in our time? We diverged during the cold war so WW2 still happened, and Poland existed for awhile before being gobbled up by the new world order of the Alliance.

https://wiki.aurorastation.org/images/9/98/EarthLabelled.png

These are all the states under the one world government of the Alliance. Poland is still there! So a Polish character having a little armband for his province which was once a nation seems fine to me. It seems like it serves its purpose wonderfully since you're already debating about whether the character should even FEEL pride in his nation's history or particular movements.

It has my approval! +1

[AmoryBlaine]

Characters bring memorabilia of their homeland to the station all the time. Everywhere we look there's artifacts of someone's faction. An armband for an Earth nation seems fine to me. There is precedent for Earthlings to be particularly proud about their heritage against the juggernaut of the Alliance. Pride in local traditions and history is an important part of many characters. If Martians can have pride for local states and want to express this through custom items, then so can earthlings. As long as Kozi knows the gist of how Earth went in our time? We diverged during the cold war so WW2 still happened, and Poland existed for awhile before being gobbled up by the new world order of the Alliance.

https://wiki.aurorastation.org/images/9/98/EarthLabelled.png

These are all the states under the one world government of the Alliance. Poland is still there! So a Polish character having a little armband for his province which was once a nation seems fine to me. It seems like it serves its purpose wonderfully since you're already debating about whether the character should even FEEL pride in his nation's history or particular movements.

It has my approval! +1

It's not a Provincial armband. It's the Polish Home Army armband. If it was simply just a something Polish I'd be aboard, but it's the fact that he wants to use the Polish Home Army armband and is very staunchly himself a Polish nationalist that makes me question adding it. Like I continue to point out, it's exactly the same as an American wearing a tricorne to his place of work in Hong Kong so he can talk about the War of Independance.

No one wears historicial regalia around on the daily in order to show their support of X.

Edit:

>It seems like it serves its purpose wonderfully since you're already debating about whether the character should even FEEL pride in his nation's history or particular movements.

He isn't talking about the character. He is speaking about himself. But either way he isn't debating it, nor is that the point. The point is to bring Polish nationalism into 2459. It has nothing to do with an inner struggle with the character's relationship with his province and people versus the big picture of Sol. He just wants to tell of the heroism of Polish resistance members in the Second World War. Why would someone from Poland living and employed in Tau Ceti in 2549 wear the armband of the Home Army and praise them? Because he, the player, does. He made that clear in his last post. It's solely about his, the player's, own patriotism.

[Kozi32]

Oh my God, you again starting with Hong Kong?, dont you have another reasons how to be against people?...

If someone want to wear a tricorne and walk with that why not?, it is just a hat, even with americans design, it's not ILLEGAL item to wear(like nazi's armbands), fun fact even in poland we wear tricord(you ask why?, i will answer.. in Poland we have the largest group of reconstructions, and Polish volunteer soldiers taken part of Independence War of Americans, for example Kościuszko google it. It's funny that you still saying about tricord

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I looked into it, admittably on wikipedia but a few articles on the subject too.

http://www.biega.com/museumAK/hak-e.html

The Polish Home Army fought against the Nazi's, which instantly makes them likable. Shooting Nazi's gets you a pretty up there in the moral high ground and I'm not sure your arguments are really enough to bring it down to a level where it's too problematic. The PHA was apparently the remnants of the legitimate Polish government that capitulated to the Nazi's. I'm not Polish nor am I really connected to any of this so I can't really make any bold claims as to the group without doing a lot more research, which would frankly be a waste of time compared to the fact it's over a problematic armband...

Your other argument is WHY they would bring it to the station......... People already do this all the time! The Polish people did not go extinct, they are right over there.

There have been incidents in recent 2459 and 2458 history of the Alliance being naughty to Earth and Earthlings being feisty. There was a major incident where Earth's leaders came together and said they still care about their personal identities against the fact the Alliance is thematically imperialistic and condescending towards these things. Your arguments are ver batum how an IC argument would go in a perfect situation. "Local identity is not important, Alliance identity is." Yes Tau Ceti isn't in Poland but people can still be proud of their heritage and history even in foreign countries. I would definately wear an American flag pin if I was working in Hong Kong and it was the 4th of July. Heck, maybe every day if people are patronizing about it. Nothing makes me more spitefully patriotic than a foreigner making fun of my patriotism or saying it isn't necessary.

Also, it's not a tricorne. A tricorn is a silly hat that looks ridiculous and has become a costume. What Kozi wants is.... An armband.... It's a strip of cloth..... Like???? Armbands are the most lowkey way of your character expressing their ideology or alliegance. I observe these things and there is always a swing in armbands as factions come and go. There was a time when ATLAS armbands were all the rage, and you could use your same argument because ATLAS is a foreign party to Tau Ceti but its members felt strongly enough in their identity that they wore the armband anyway. This is EXACTLY the same but for a minority group.

I also see NO evidence of Kozi being a nationalist. I don't see anything Kozi says about the Polish state being inherently stronger than its neighbors and needing to beat up all its minorities and neighbors. I can't really find anything on the Polish Home Army about anything extremely problematic. If there's evidence that the PHA has become this radical hate group in Poland in modern times then maybe it'd be weird enough to have another look at, but from what I can see the group formally ended after WW2. "After the Soviet armies occupied the remainder of western Poland, based on a decision of the President of Poland (in London), Gen. Okulicki issued an order closing down the Home Army on January 19, 1945. "

In general there's barely any mention of Poland explicitly in our lore after we diverge. If he wants to have an armband and talk about how great Poland is, that's fine with me! There is little to no reason NanoTrasen would demand he take off the armband.

Edited December 30, 2017 by Marlon Phoenix

[Kozi32]

Like Senpai said, i'm not nationalist.

[AmoryBlaine]

I'm not going to attempt to further argue against this. I stand by it being both foolish and nonsensical to have a character wear the armband of a long defunct resistance group to work. All other armbands worn are those of active organizations. This is, as I continue to point out, as bizarre as an American abroad wearing Colonial era headwear in order to spur on conversations about the War of Independence.

-1

[tbear13]

I really don't see the point of an armband for a defunct organization from 500 years ago. It doesn't matter if they were the "good" side and fought against nazism, it doesn't belong in a workplace 500 years after the fact. Can my character run around with a confederate armband yelling "The South will rise again!"? If we start putting things like that in the game, there'll be some issues.

[TishinaStalker]

I have to agree with both Amory and Tbear on this one and Tbear's thoughts on it are exactly along with mine.

Application denied.