Staff Complaint- readthisnameplz

BYOND Key: NervanCato

Staff BYOND Key: readthisnameplz

Game ID: The round after the one for this complaint is bVs-aKQB. It was a "secret" mercenary round if that helps.

Reason for complaint:

Before I get to the reason for the complaint I would like to give a little background on the situation. During the round I was playing the character Micheal Faust, a janitor. For context I had awoken late essentially in the middle of the conflict right before Crisis mode was activated. A short duration later after staying in the engineering lobby for safety I heard a distress over the radio that people were stuck in the bar. A previous command announcement stated that the mercenaries were coming down the ladders, so I figured that it was likely about to become a turkey shoot with innocent people stuck in the bar and hostile forces with guns. So like any good person with the capability and compassion in the heat of the moment I thought it would be worth the risk to attempt to save those people as I could move there relatively safely in my janimobile (serving as a layer of protection). When I arrive I notice that there are dead/wounded security officers so I moved to investigate and called for help from medical..... then the mercenary Bruce Chamberlain appeared. He ordered me to lay on the ground, moved up to the janimobile and grabbed me taking me hostage. I was pleading to get my beloved mister, but he stated no. I managed to escape his grip after a bit of struggle, he took a few steps back and on the floor laid a Energy Carbine with 7 shots remaining. I shot him in the head 7 times and he died.

Momentarily after his death I was contacted by readthisnameplz and explained what happened multiple times. After repeated explanation on how I was not validhunting in the area I, given no good explanation to prove anything contrary to what I proved readthisnameplz applied a permanent ban. He claimed me not running away was valid hunting when there was a clearly visible weapon on the ground. Had there not been a easily accessible weapon I would have ran. Fight or flight. I chose fight since I had seen an accessible lethal weapon. After getting shot he tried to flee but collapsed and died before he managed to, in the process my character got shot and could have died for his attempted self defense. I shouldn't be punished for being robust and quick to think in this scenario. He died from his mistakes, end of story. Even in real life people act to stress you can't say what someone "should have done" especially in the heat of the moment. I am also very invested in my characters, as even though it isn't always written I have a headcanon about each character so I actually do care if they survive.

Before I got banned I even told readthisnameplz that I would report this because it was not necessary nor was it fair for what happened, and here we are. I'm doing this in hopes of preventing other players from having to go through the troubles of appealing and making a staff report over a baseless ban such as mine, a permaban at that.

Evidence/logs/etc:

Adminhelp logs would be helpful from the conversation, I do not have them currently.

The following is recovered logs sourced from a fellow player, has a few missing lines from before but it gives a good jist:

Bruce Chamberlain has grabbed Michael Faust aggressively (now hands)! This is where the kidnapping began after he told me to lay on the floor.

[F] Shane Briggs says, ""He" Being Dr. Gonzales."

Michael Faust has broken free of Bruce Chamberlain's grip!

Michael Faust resists!

Bruce Chamberlain has grabbed Michael Faust passively!

[F] Michael Faust says, "wait"

Bruce Chamberlain has grabbed Michael Faust aggressively (now hands)!

[F] Michael Faust says, "my mister"

[F] Ghost of Hartley Caroon whines, "so much bloodshed"

Bruce Chamberlain has reinforced his grip on Michael Faust (now neck)!

Bruce Chamberlain begins climbing up the ladder!

[F] Michael Faust asks, "Can I get my mister?"

Michael Faust resists!

[F] Bruce Chamberlain says, "No"

Bruce Chamberlain begins climbing up the ladder!

If my memory serves me I also called for help before this stating I was being kidnapped or something along those lines.

[F] Michael Faust says, "this guy is mean."

[F] [Common] (Intercepted) Michael Faust says, "He won't let me get my mister.

[F] Michael Faust says, "I just want my mister man."

Bruce Chamberlain checks Unknown (as Sslazhir Yinzr)'s pulse.

He dropped his guard and I was able to grab the carbine.

Bruce Chamberlain is hit by the laser in the head!

Michael Faust fires the energy carbine! I open fire on his head.

Bruce Chamberlain is hit by the laser in the right foot!

Michael Faust fires the energy carbine!

Bruce Chamberlain fires the submachine gun!

Michael Faust is hit by the bullet in the groin!

Bruce Chamberlain's head melts away, turning into mangled mess!

Bruce Chamberlain is hit by the laser in the head!

Michael Faust fires the energy carbine!

Bruce Chamberlain fires the submachine gun!

You hear a loud cracking sound coming from Michael Faust.

Michael Faust screams!

Michael Faust is hit by the bullet in the groin!

Bruce Chamberlain fires the submachine gun!

The laser misses Bruce Chamberlain narrowly!

Michael Faust fires the energy carbine!

Michael Faust screams!

Michael Faust is hit by the bullet in the groin!

Bruce Chamberlain fires the submachine gun!

Michael Faust is hit by the bullet in the groin!

Unknown (as Bruce Chamberlain) is hit by the laser in the head!

Michael Faust fires the energy carbine!

Unknown (as Bruce Chamberlain) fires the submachine gun!

The bullet misses Michael Faust narrowly!

Unknown (as Bruce Chamberlain) is hit by the laser in the head!

Michael Faust fires the energy carbine!

Unknown (as Bruce Chamberlain) fires the submachine gun!

The bullet misses Michael Faust narrowly!

The laser misses Unknown (as Bruce Chamberlain) narrowly!

Michael Faust fires the energy carbine!

Unknown (as Bruce Chamberlain) fires the submachine gun!

The bullet misses Michael Faust narrowly!

*click click*

*click click*

[F] Michael Faust says, "I told you"

Unknown (as Bruce Chamberlain) seizes up and falls limp, their eyes dead and lifeless...

[F] Michael Faust says, "let me get my mister."

Additional remarks: Additional note that the character's personality is to be very attached to the waterbackpack mister. Once spent an entire round looking for it after it got dropped. Also, more anecdotal, but I've been killed from far more ridiculous circumstances playing as a mercenary, in that instance I vented in Dchat and moved on with my life. Things happen, death happens. "Death is a natural part of life."

Hello, sorry for the extremely late response. I've been busy all day.

So, let me explain what I was told my multiple witnesses, including a Primary Admin [mention]Alberyk[/mention]

Witnesses saw you escape/get released by the mercenary, and as the mercenary was leaving (this is shown in the logs you posted "Bruce Chamberlain begins climbing up the ladder") you went into comms, commented on how he's mean, and put yourself in even more danger for a backpack that spews water- which, breaks our character preservation rules. I.E, avoid pain and play a relatively sane character. After this comment, you picked up an energy carbine- Which I'd imagine an everyday Janitor wouldn't know how to use considering there are two settings and all that. You then chased after the mercenary and gunned him down using the carbine, while being shot by lethal rounds from the mercenary. This goes back to ignoring the character preservation rules. The specific ones that you broke (in my mind) are-

1. Take into account your character's comfort, while this deals with hardsuits mainly, I can assure you, being shot multiple times is not comfortable.

2. Avoid pain. A sane, well-rounded character would not engage in actions that are overly painful, or put themselves in harm's way without consideration.

You had a chance to escape the situation, but instead you decided to hunt down the mercenary after they were trying to relocate, and you then gunned them down, while being shot multiple times as well. In which you completely disregarded the pain from being shot several times, the merc emptied a magazine into you.

3. Additionally, keep your character's goals in mind.

You were playing a janitor. Not a security officer, not a Head of Security or any kind of security member. A Janitor. You should have ran the moment you got the chance to, not stick around and fight. This also, in some sense, breaks immersion.

4. Generally, avoid playing hero. There are certain opportunities every character can seize to overthrow an antagonist, but going rambo on syndicate ops as a frail, unarmed medical doctor constitutes a failure to roleplay and will likely end with you getting shot. Also, if you are unarmed, and being held at gunpoint, it is generally expected for you to comply with your captor, or risk suffering the consequences. Specifically concerning melee combat: knowing advanced close quarters combat moves requires legitimate training, having it as a hobby or some such for a character who then uses this knowledge to expertly dislocate limbs will not fly. Unless trained, you should restrict yourself to standard punches, kicks, shoving, and grabbing/throwing.

The forth one is very important, you are a Janitor. You should not be attempting to evacuate a bar full of people while a known threat is down there. If I remember correctly, an ERT was inbound and was prepared the handle the threat. Not only that, but you completely ignored the fact that you lacked any kind of protection when you picked up the carbine and engaged the mercenary who had ballistic weapons and other weapons at their disposal.

You were not banned unjustly, I even asked for a few other opinions from staff that were online at the time, to make sure I wasn't banning you for no reason.

A water backpack does not constitute the complete disregard for your characters well being. There are more than one on station, and you surely would have gotten it back once the ERT had handled the remaining mercenaries.

The report about him going up the ladder is because he was trying to drag me up the ladder with him to kidnap me. In actuality I shot him for my safety, not for the mister (that was more of a joke of a reason). Again, there was a weapon right infront of me, I chose it would be safer to shoot him instead of run since he was armed. Had there not been a weapon I would have ran for safety. The carbine was already set on lethal. I used the tools available to protect my life and limb. I did not stick around just to kill. This was for self defense, there is no reason I would not try to defend myself.

To make this abundantly clear:

1. This whole scenario happened within the span of about 10-15 seconds. From the time the merc told me to lay down to his death. That's way too fast for drawn out RP decisions.

2. I made a decision, no matter how risky or dumb, to try and help other people while I could. People do this all the time in real life regardless of the danger. Let's say for example, a burning car with a person inside, yes it could explode any second, yes you could die trying to save them, yes you are not a trained fire fighter or police officer, but still most compassionate humans would still try to save the person. You do not have to have special training to try and help another person.

3. My action was completely justified, and death was a possible outcome of my decision. There is nothing wrong with that at all. If you don't want people to make rash decisions then make everyone an AI mob, take away our freedom of movement, and make the game speech only. If you give us free will expect people to make dumb decisions that could result in their death, no reason to punish for that or you may as well go ahead and ban everyone.

4. My goal was not to kill the mercenary, it was to go and see if I could help the people at the bar and call an Engineer if need be.I DID NOT KNOW THERE WERE MERCENARIES, I ONLY HEARD ABOUT EXPLOSIONS. Just making this abundantly clear.

5. Pay attention to the note I left. I was not the source for those logs, it is somewhat incomplete.

6. The radio communications were made while he had a death grip on me, not included in the log are my pleas for help.

7. When I arrived at the bar I asked the AI and was about to call for the engineersto assist before I saw the dead security officers.

8. The mercenary was trying to drag me up the ladder with him, not escape. When he lost his grip on me I tried to run but he drew his gun, he came back for me very quickly and I shot him with the carbine already set to lethal with 7 shots left that I found on the floor next to a dead security officer.

I got lucky killing him and nearly died from my decision, it is a game my friend. People die. People make rashdecisions. We are human not robots, why punish me for enjoying the game? I wasn't greytiding, I wasn't valid hunting. Everything that happened was well within the realm of plausibility for human actions and you have yet to prove otherwise. The round was going very well until you intervened. This was completely unnecessary and is a waste of both of our time over something so insignificant in the grand scale of the game. I may have been able to understand a round ban, but a permanent ban was wholly unecessary.

I've given plenty evidence to prove the contrary to the validity of this ban. A permaban at that.

I was one of the people who suggested a ban in the cirumstance so I will lay my input down on this. After the incident, Morbius PM;ed me and asked me to deal with the abusive admin who is perma banning them, they acted along like they had done nothing wrong in the case even when I tried to explain it to them.

"Everything that happened was well within the realm of plausibility for human actions and you have yet to prove otherwise"

I think you should ask you'reself that if you were under attack from highly trained steroid happy mercenarys, and you have no combat or conflict training, would you run from the situation or try and fight back and risk dieing? You broke fear rp as I also explained to you then. Most likely had not tried to justify validhunting/powergaming by having a character who lacks any fear and can apparently combat mercenarys and just apologized for the issue, a Perma ban wouldnt of been placed

I have nothing else to add to this complaint. I have given all of my reasons behind my decision.

I'll be handling this complaint. I'll be taking a good look at this tonight (27th) as well.

A tiny bit late, but oh well.

In response to additional remarks: That is ENTIRELY on you if you choose to stay quiet when others break rule against you. So I'll be entirely ignoring your additional remark on the complaint format.

On your second post, point three is also being entirely ignored. Whatever point you're trying to make there is incredibly silly. You're taking your argument there to the extreme and failing at it with this ridiculous hyperbolic statement of making everyone simple mobs. Since if people make dumb decisions, they're still getting punished if they go against the rules set forth by the server. Would some untrained person in real life find a dinky pistol and go after extremely armed and dangerous terrorists in an active threat situation? Absolutely, people are stupid. Shame that would be against the rules here through validhunting. So your point there has no ground to stand on.

"previous command announcement stated that the mercenaries were coming down the ladders, so I figured that it was likely about to become a turkey shoot with innocent people stuck in the bar"

"I DID NOT KNOW THERE WERE MERCENARIES, I ONLY HEARD ABOUT EXPLOSIONS"

Alright, so you just caught yourself lying here OR you misremembered what you've already said here and contradicted yourself. Since a maint ladder is in the bar's maint tunnel. I'll find out after work today with logs on which is which and it better not be the former.

As it stands for the time being, I'm afraid I have to agree with other staff here. In terms of fighting the mercenary. Unless you were entirely unable to leave the area (e.g. no access to leave), then you should not stick around to fight the mercenaries as non-sec personnel. I definitely understand where Read is coming from with the first three rules she cited, and those seem valid. The only rule cited that seems shaky is avoid playing hero. Re: Acting on the hostage situation. Overall, though, I consider it valid too. It doesnt sound like you were helping people when the hostage taker wasnt going around, but directly jumpin into a hostage situation. As non-sec too which is definitely not kosher.

So overall, I consider this ban to be valid, and not "needless". I only have the last doubt on the radio chatter which, again, I'll check once I get home. Other than that, I have no further questions, nor a need for clarification with the information provided here. Assuming I dont find anything that raises eyebrows and more questions in the logs, I'll close this 24 or 48 hours from now based on availability. I will also post my findings from the logs, regardless of whether or not it makes me ask more questions.

[mention]Mobius_None[/mention] it seems that the last time you played the character in this complaint, according to the WI, was on July 21st, and this complaint was filed on July 20th. I can't find any logs pertaining to the round. When did this happen exactly?

Alright, nothing, I suppose. No action will be taken against Read as a result of this staff complaint because there was no issue with how she handled the issue.

Locking and archiving.