Coalf

I didn't say it's hard. I said the titles are arbitrary and useless, which they are. We have nowhere near the amount of medical mechanics to justify these role splits. Yes, some people play extraneous roles. Does not make these roles a non-waste. People play Electrical Engineers, people played Pharmacists. It's about the long-term benefit, not the short-term appeasement. And no, major chunk of my argument was that the jobs are rudimentary, not that people can and can't do things. Imagine if you had a Miner Technician who can mine every mineral, Miner who cannot mine phoron and Uranium and a Minelet who can only mine iron and coal. They're all extraneous job positions. This is the current state of doctor. Yes, suffer, but rarely do developers take it into account or pay lip service to these arguments. Yet in medical it is not only supported, but EXPECTED that people base their arguments on real life credentials and what those jobs do. I have never seen RP develop from the fact that someone is a nurse and not a doctor. Yes, people have passed me onto someone else because they weren't capable of doing something and yes, people have taken others to assist them during surgery. BUT Neither of those things is being removed, Rescue Techs will still pass on patients they have stabilized, Biological Assistants will still assist people during surgery if they ask for it. No RP is being removed, what is being removed is actually arbitrary mechanical restrictions. There is a constant rush to "pass on patients" to the right physicians, no RP comes of this, people just regurgitate patients from one doctor to another. There is no interaction being generated because there is the pressure of the fact that if you talk with the patient, he might die during the RP. Example: If you have 5 doctors and 3 patients, you have 2 doctors who are free to do essentially anything they want. They can assist the other doctors, they can talk to patients post-surgery, they can sort medical, they can talk to patients during their diagnosis and lift the pressure off of the person doing mechanical diagnostics. If you have 5 patients, 5 patients are going to get treatment. Example 2: If you have 5 doctors, 2 of them are physicians, 2 of them are trauma physicians and 1 is a surgeon, and 3 patients. If those three patients have a brain injury, the surgeon is the only one occupied. If those three patients got too drunk and now have liver damage, the surgeon is the only one occupied. If those three patients had their lungs collapse, the 2 physicians are still not qualified. If you then have 5 patients, those 5 patients have a very low chance of getting treated if they have anything outside of arterial bleeding. It's complex in the same way a license to sell cabbages in the EU is. It shouldn't be, there is no reason for it to be, but it is. There is no benefit from the current system to anyone playing medical. People have simply gotten used to playing this way.

PART II OF MY SUGGESTION SINCE A LOT OF PEOPLE SEEM TO BE CONFUSED I have done a wrong job of explaining what I meant with Biologistics. The purpose is not to turn medical INTO research. It is to keep medical AS IS But the reason for the rebranding are: 1. Separate the "real life" concept of medical from the on-station medical. No other job suggestion can survive off of the "But in real life..." argument. Yet medical changes HINGE on this point. This is purely because people still attach the name "medical" and "Doctor" to its real life counterpart. This means that we give more validity to arguments that make no sense for any other job. (When was the last time you heard someone say 'but in real life mall security doesn't have guns!'?) Thus the purpose isn't to turn them into science, the purpose is to remove the idea that medical on-station is somehow equal to medical in real-life. Every other job role already works that way, because when you think of an engineer you don't think of a guy at a drawing board calculating the size of rivets. But rather, a dude in a space suit fixing a ship. 2. Widen the impact of roles, while lessening the arbitrary numbers of them. There is no reason to have a Physician, Trauma Physician, Nurse and Surgeon nor is there a reason to have a Psychologist, Psychiatrist, EMT and Paramedic. We have nowhere near the amount of procedures that warrant the existence of these jobs. As it stands a Surgeon can do anything, the reason he can't is because he's not allowed to because he'd be taking fun away from other players not because he's restricted from it in any way. Having just a Doctor/Biological Specialist/Fixery Uppery Toppery Man is better in every regard. I am completely fine with it not being called Biologistics or Biological Researcher. But the point is to remove the term "doctor" and replace it with something that comes attached to a sci-fi concept, rather than a real life concept.

No, I just rename the jobs and make less jobs. The whole thing might change flavor slightly and open it up to being more leaning towards the science wing, but absolutely nothing is going to change for the people in medical. You will still be a doctor, you will still fix peoples bones, you won't be expected to do more than that. If the title of Biological Researcher is SUCH an issue, it can easily be replaced with a different one. But the main point is to divorce the ideal of real-life medical, from our medical. Similarly to how Engineering, Security, Cargo, Command and "Civilian" are. 1) This is exactly the kind of thing I hope to get rid of. Detaching the whole department away from this concept of "well this isn't realistic, this is how that works and this is how this works" is exactly the pursuit and you have demonstrated it perfectly. There is absolutely zero reason to get so in-depth about this just because your own personal understanding of this field is broader than someone elses. Engineering, Security, Detective Work, Commanding, all of these jobs are also a mixture of multiple different doctorates, schools and experiences. We make fun of security officers who take their job too seriously and act realistically because "Well it doesn't make the game fun". Yet we tolerate the same gate-keeping and toxic behavior from doctors because it's "how real professionals do it". Similarly, for a long time, "Biology" has been a catch-all term for both science and medical doctors. See: Dead Space, Star Trek, Star Wars etc. Not only that but as you exactly pointed out, it also includes ALIENS. Something our extremely specific and narrow understanding of how doctorates and Phd's work DOESN'T INCLUDE! Thus the "real life look" onto things ALREADY does not work, yet people are willing to tolerate that? Not only that but our medical jobs are already different in many details from real-life medical jobs in what they do, are supposed to be doing and how they're doing them. I really don't get why people are so heavily married to this idea of following the "proper medical naming scheme" yet when it comes to realism in literally any other aspect it's suddenly fine that it isn't that way. 2) Same argument applies. Medical will be doing exactly the same thing as they've been doing until now. Except their roles will be wider, not narrower as you seem to be trying to imply. None of the problems you outlined are real with this change. If the idea of "Biological Researcher" is so bad, they could easily be called "Biological Specialists", it's just a renaming scheme existing specifically to divorce medical from these arguments for "Well in real life". It has been happening for YEARS. 3) The ability to do more things doesn't make you a powergamer, otherwise I'd ask you why are you playing a CMO and not a physician when you do play medical. Well in my scenario I came to medical and died due to a Kidney failure because the 5 present medical professionals weren't qualified to deal with it. It was fascinating to see the flow of them panicking and putting me on a constant drip feed of anti-tox while saying "I hope a surgeon connects soon" in LOOC. Anecdotal evidence is not evidence, for every good encounter you bring up I can bring a bad one. The difference is I know that medical worked just as fine as how I suggest it, because that's how medical was 3-4 years ago before we started splitting it into smaller and smaller arbitrary roles. The reason I am suggesting re-branding, rather than just turning back the time and turning everyone into a doctor again. Is because people will make the exact same arguments as they are in this thread, to get it split up into tiny roles again, repeating the whole issue all over again. Besides this already exists! Surgeons can actually do anything, there is no need for anyone to play a physician or a trauma physician. There very clearly does not exist a "importance of having roles that are split into clear responsibilities and can-do’s and cannot-do’s." Because again, this has been consistently changing EVERY YEAR and people are now making actual CHARTS about what they can and can't do because the restrictions have become so arbitrary that players can't even keep track of them without writing them down.

I think that's ridiculous, the longer you let people work with something the more they get used to it. The faster a change comes, the less people will be upset with how large the scope of those changes will be because many might not have gotten used to them yet, or adjusted their characters. Yes, that's the point. Engineers also do everything. Scientists can do any role in science. Literally nobody has issue with those two. It was fine in Star Trek, it doesn't matter here. It's going to rename them all, and give everyone a wider skill set so they can apply it in more situations. Rescue Technician can be changed to something else. No issue with that, but I don't think it's such an issue. Valid, but I don't think purely changing the names of a department is going to cause such a marginal change. I'd relate it more to if we renamed "Cargo" to "Operations" and "Cargo Technician" to "Storage Operators". Rather than what you spoke about. If such an umbrella term as "engineer" can be mis-used for so many things engineers don't really do at all, I think we can mis-use biologist in the same way without an issue. Could be possible, yes. Medical Researcher, Medicinal Researcher, Biological Technician, Body Fixxer Upper etc. all would be valid options. I don't think it changes the spirit as a whole. If it is so severe as people keep repeating, perhaps it is for the best since so many research roles are also interspersed with biology. And it could in the future open up the possibility of re-adding virology, genetics and allowing chemists to experiment more. As far as people know we're primarily a research based setting. Even in NBT the research department is where a large part of energy is going to go. This isn't changing anything, again, this is just branding it as something "ours" and bringing it closer to the whole feeling of a space-opera. Similar to how in Star Trek the medical there is also included under science. Nothing is going to change. In fact what I'm suggesting has existed in SS13 for a long time, only recently has it become a trend to anally over-specify jobs to the point where there can be a department full of doctors but not a single one can operate on my kidney. No other department holds the issue of "Waah this job title isn't realistic enough!!! REAL DOCTORS DON'T DO THAT". Further, if we're not in pursuit of realism, why has this line of thinking not only been tolerated, but actually appeased to by developers, CCIA and admins alike? It has gotten out of the teams hands. This makes it easier on everyone. If you get alienated because of a name change, then you're part of the issue. Yes everyone had to change when we split detective and forensics tech, yes everyone had to change when we excluded handicapped characters from certain jobs, yes everyone had to change when we added 2-4 arbitrary job roles to medical when it was previously handled by doctors, meaning people who did surgeries for 3+ years now couldn't. I literally just changed the name and grouped everyone into less jobs so they can do more things. Nobody has to change their backstory. Nobody has to change their requirements. Nobody has to make an excuse. Nobody has been invalidated. No roleplay has been ruined. No "general checkups and physicals" have been removed. Medical will be doing exactly the identical thing they have been doing until now. The difference is, people will be divorced from their vanity of basing their entire existence of their character on the fact they are allowed to pull a light-bulb out of someones ass while a Nurse isn't. All of our jobs are inaccurate portrayals of real life jobs. Calling medical "Biology" has been a staple of sci-fi for a long time now and I don't see why medical in specific is supposed to be the one department that just HAS to be as realistic as possible in how we title it. Further, yes, the point is to remove the unnecessary medical restriction, requirement and superiority bloat. I am tired of this because this "Promising update" has now happened about 11 times. It started off with just splitting Surgeon and Doctor, then we split EMT and Paramedic, then we placed more restrictions on those jobs, then we placed more restrictions on what nurses can do, then we split Medical Intern and Medical resident and what those two can do, then we continued and added a fucking "Trauma Physician" and now we're at a point where a doctor can't perform a good 40% of medical because he isn't "qualified" while a nurse is expected to shuffle papers and guess what people have ALREADY started arguing about that. This whole "splitting" is ridiculous, facile and serves nothing besides annoying everyone involved. Except the surgeon of course who can do anything he wants if there are no other physicians present, making him effectively CMO 2.

No beating around the bush, let's get into it. Replace Medical with: Biologistics Assistant Biologist - Intern/Resident, the "Hello I am Baby Help me" job Biological Researcher - Doctor, Surgeon, Nurse, CBT Expert and everything in-between Rescue Technician - EMT/Paramedic/Firefighter, whatever, basically the "Go out and save the schmuck. Chemist - No need to change this. Mental Health Researcher - Psychologist/Psychiatrist in one role. Head Biological Researcher - CMO Pro's: By making this IRL set of jobs completely ours, we also gain complete control over it in terms of lore and development. The constant repeating and draining argument of "Well this job does X and needs Y age and also we should make 2 more subsets of jobs because these surgeries are extremely complicated for one person" is discarded. The gap between how unrealistic the gameplay itself is and how stupidly over-specific the job titles and their requirements were, is going to be bridged. It is going to bring us closer to a Corporate, Scientific Motif. While yes, "We're not going to be a research station forever", NT is still a company and by creating a wholly unique medical job for them, it's tying it closer to our setting, rather than what people imagine normally under the term "doctor". Yes, people can still call each other Dr. or use Doctorates, the difference is it makes the developers, lore writers and admins jobs much easier. Because they no longer need to study a phonebook worth of information just to tell Drak Ula that he indeed can't do a triple spanktomy on that patient. Absolutely every other job already functions like this, nobody has ever complained about them. I think it's time we also stop this constant debate for medical. Con's: A lot of people are attached to medical roles as they are right now and this is going to make them angry/sad/upset. I am not here to say that your opinions or feelings don't matter, I personally haven't played medical in a LOOONG time so maybe YOU don't think I have a right to speak about this. But the fact is, medical is the only department that has consistently gone through these arguments, debates and near bi-monthly changes to roles, requirements, ages etc. etc. Every other department is perfectly content with being a vague sci-fi equivalent of an IRL job. I think that if you try this, you might find that nothing important changed and you were clinging to arbitrarily constructed ghosts for comfort.

Long time no posting! Here is Afterparty, bunch of Bloodstorm members and their fans.

Yuri Drrawa'jur executed, Shiassta dead, Yizarius disgraced! An unlawful execution of a member of the pro-Hegemony Drrawa’jur family was reported this morning, carried out on the orders of none other than the disgraced Ex-Overlord, Yizarius. In the middle of the arrest and prosecution of Yuri Drrawa’jur, Yizarius was already stripped of his title, rank, and power by the Hegemon after his disgusting ruse was finally discovered: Admiral Shiassta has been dead for weeks! A loyal insider reported a few days after Yuri Drrawa’jur’s imprisonment that Admiral Shiassta was killed in the initial clashes with the rebels, and the holo-call speaker was a mere fake! A prerecorded message of the Admiral. At the time no one at court could verify Lord Shiassta as he had always been known to be sparse with his words. After this tip off a transcript was shown to his loyal wife who confirmed that it was, in fact, not her husband. Afterwards the recording was likewise shown to his son, who supported the claim of his mother. With clear evidence from the insider and Shiassta's son. The Hegemon stripped Yizarius of all titles and ranks on the spot, a notion supported by all present. Despite the condemnation of Yizarius, his royal retainers have refused to imprison the rogue Lord. Instead claiming the Hegemon a liar, usurper, and one who takes to bed with Threshbeasts. In spite of such insults, the Hegemon has remained calm. And while the uproar from the surrounding generals was deafening, The Hegemon simply replied: What this ominous quote implies, we do not hazard to even guess.

I see no issue and so far I've gotten only recommendation. Accepted!

Gakal’Zaal liberation in progress, but can they last without you? Gakal’Zaal’s liberators report major victories all over the planet of Gakal’Zaal! This colony, grasped by the long talons of the oppressive cold-bloods, has been choked for too long and finally, its people are calling for liberty! However, now more than ever they need help and support. While the DPRA stands fully at their side both in spirit and in flesh, many others stand by and do nothing. This is not the case for the son of Mj'akurahur Drrawa'jur, Yuri Drrawa'jur, who has now publicly spoken out against the current “Overlord”. While the family of Drrawa'jur has a history of royalty, Yuri is a staunch believer in democracy and free choice of the people. This young man has used his inborn position of privilege to lessen the weight of taxes, provided his estates for peaceful gatherings and continued to support a compromise between the Overlord and freedom fighters. Doing the right thing is not always easy and Yuri Drrawa’jur is a shining example of such! But will he fight alone, or will you join him and many others? As we speak, volunteers from all over the universe are congregating on Gaka’Zaal. You could be there too.

Pressure Mounting, Rebels a Threat? Despite the continued arming of his world, the losses on Gakal’zaal have been mounting according to insider reports. Numerous casualties of both Tajara loyalists and Sinta warriors are being counted just north of Kaszhizi. The perpetrators? The so-called Gakal’Zaal Liberation Front, a group of upstart raiders and heretics who have banded under an alien flag to try and sabotage the internal workings of Gakal’zaal and the Hegemony as a whole. Overlord Yizarius was quick to lay any suspicions to rest. As he reports, the only reason these “freedom fighters” have been capable of laying a finger on his warriors is that they have adopted a certain type of combat called “Guerilla warfare”, a highly dishonorable and shameful form of war which uses trickery and deception to cause as many casualties as possible. However, he assures, the fact is that for every Sinta life the rebels lose ten times as many and that by his projections, the war should end next week. Overlord Yizarius also claims that as a result of this upset, he will be forced to raise taxes, increase tariffs and suspend any tithes to be paid towards the Hegemony. Suspicions were immediately raised but Yizarius’ said that his second in command, Grand Admiral Shiassta, would not only vouch for him. But also offer up his estates, titles, lands and honor as possible payment instead of the required tithes. Distrustful, a meeting was called immediately. However, after brief negotiations, the Hegemon agreed on a holographic call instead. ///Open Feed

Aggression Continues; Gakazaal Overlord Arms Despite the coronation ceremony, Makar Yizarius, the Overlord of Gakal’zaal, refuses to dissolve his levy back into civilian service. While the Gakal’zaal colony does not boast a large number of Sinta’Unathi, it possesses a swelling number of Tajara, many of whom have sworn loyalty to Yizarius and know nothing of our customs or traditions. It is this “standing army”, as Lord Yizarius calls it, that constitutes the vast majority of the forces on Gakal’zaal and which keeps the peace. These constant armies are more akin to those in Solian Empire and loyal only to Yizarius. This means that thousands of Sinta warriors are left free of service. However, during the civil war, Yizarius provided a mere hundred warriors to the Hegemon’s effort, warriors which were recalled shortly after the war ended. When questioned about his standing army, and the large idle troop count of Sinta warriors, Yizarius sent this official statement: When Lord Admiral Ss’kiak inquired on the decreasing amount of tithe paid to the Hegemony, Yizarius answered in a similar manner, blaming everything once again on pirates and rebels. This answer was contradicting with the Charter Guilds. Who reported that Gakal’zaal has made recent exuberant purchases in raw materials and arms. Overlord Yizarius said that he was not aware of such purchases and offered an explanation. The Guildsmasters refused to comment.

I don't know, can't people just vote a different thing if they want a different thing?

Alrighty, application accepted.

I believe the question was more onto your behaviour towards what you at the time viewed as "junior staff" during your tenure as a CCIA, as a few people spoke that you had a pattern of being dismissive and "talking down" to people who you viewed as below you in seniority. I was not involved in this much, I am mostly speaking from second hand accounts. Wiki Team is one of those teams that deals with other departments daily and constantly, thus if something like this were to happen, I'd have a zero tolerance rule. With all that said, there is nothing stopping me from accepting you. Nobody has come to me with a huge issue and while your behaviour in the past has been "different" to the standard, I'm a believer that past silghts should remain in the past. Thus, after confirming you understand what I said, I won't have an issue in accepting you into the team.

The Job Guide was brought up as the main example as it's the most saturated with those jokes, but the jokes themselves are present in full articles as well.

To clarify, the complaint has not been that people might THINK it's correct information or something they can do. But that it does not match the tone of the wiki and the server as a whole as it has a sort of LRP/MRP feel to it and thus does not fit our server.

Yesterday a complaint was brought up by a user named Kaed which raised a concern over the amount of articles on the wiki, which feature rule-breaking jokes or jokes that suggest rule-breaking behaviour and mindsets. Many of these jokes feature rule breaking behaviour, general low-RP play and other unacceptable forms of conduct for a player, such as dropping rods onto the AI, stealing the captains ID and others. The Job Guides page was brought up as the main example which can be viewed here: https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=Job_Guides The main concern by the player was as thus: While I argued that being a Wiki Developer is a boring experience, and these jokes are the few times staff gets to relax and unwind in their own work and further, that it has never been raised as an issue or contributed to any rule-breaking behaviour as far as I know. Ultimately, while the decision to keep them is up to me I am frankly impartial and don't really care which way it goes. However, one must remember that it would set the precedent for any future wiki writers and would impact the style of the wiki, perhaps forever. Thus I proposed to make this thread in the players stead to gauge more public opinion and see how interested, uninterested the community is on this issue.

Denied due to innactivity. Will archive in 24 hours.

Thank you for your honesty, I don't see a reason why I shouldn't accept you. So consider your application accepted. I'll have this closed and archived in the next 24 hours.

Thank you for being so honest with me, but this is what has me worried. I really can't offer you anything you describe there. We look at the Github publicly available to everyone, we transcribe code, if we don't understand it we ask the developers. Ultimately our relationship with coders is about as deep as the players or contributors, if you ask they'll probably explain the code to you. With all that cleared, I'd still be willing to accept you but I'd need a promise that you won't leave/become dead and innactive in a month or two of your existance.

Well we don't really send people links or inform them, but we do maintain the wiki. In terms of arguments, I don't really care, as a wiki developer you won't be expected to argue with anyone outside of maybe me when we talk if the background is Magenta or Fuchsie. But there are two things I want to ask you about. How long do you estimate you'd stay on the wiki team? This doesn't have to be a concrete thing, but a rough estimate or even a guest on how long you plan to stick around. Do you have any experience in CSS/HTML/Yadayada/ungabunga? This isn't really a deal breaker or anything, I'd just be interested in knowing.

Just to clear up if there is any confusion, you won't really get involved in the development process. We get information after development is finished, at the soonest when it's approved on the github and it just hasn't been implemented into the game yet, outside of that we have as much input and overview on development as you do right now. If you are mainly interested in Projects/Development overall, you'd be better off trying for the Development team in terms of coding, rather than wiki development. Further, for me the main thing is retention rather than skill and talent. While HTML/CSS/CBT is important to having a nice looking wiki, all of that can be taught, but retention can't. The way you have phrased your application it seems like this is a short term thing for about a month or two, it's of course completely understandable that nobody wants to stay here forever and it's not a deal breaker, but I'd appreciate if I could get a more "concrete" time estimation on how long you plan to stick around.

But why add a stationbound? For that one AI player to have something to play or to just add one more in general? Won't it affect a completely different avenue of balance than the AI?

Hello, would you still be interested in the role?

Consume the Chalice Vroom