SomeoneOutTher3

Thank you for the answer. What about the "exceptional" cases in the other 20%? Yeah, my question was primarily meant to be about using firearms in-game for self-defense, not actively pursuing someone. In the game, it seems that every non-security character I encountered suddenly lost the ability to use a gun whenever a situation arose that might have needed it for defense against whatever was on the station (Almost never did),so I asked if gun use really needed as much training as people made it out to.

Wouldn't the AEG be essentially the same as an energy gun, with the only difference being that the AEG is larger due to a reactor inside it recharging the gun by itself, and therefore not /that/ hard to handle? As for the lawgivers, the only people who usually have access to them are either knowledgeable enough to carry out testing, are trained in firearms, or antags. Yes, it will take some time to figure out that the guns are voice-activated. But do the lawgivers actually have recoil in the game? If not,refer to the part about E-weapons. Gat lasers don't have recoil or any safety switch, they should be easier to handle because of that. LWAPS also have no recoil or switch, look down the scope and pull the trigger.

This is a question that I had in the back of my mind for some time and have asked over OOC a few times. Does using a gun ICly REALLY require training? I have been to a shooting range for quite a few times and fired a 9mm. The only issues that I've had when doing so is accuracy going down at longer range and recoil (Well, that and the pistol slide hitting my thumb once because it was in the way). Now, the typical distance that one would have to shoot from in the game is 7 (or 14, depending on who you ask) meters or less. At that distance, neither of those pose a problem when shooting. Heavier ballistic weapons like automatics and assault rifles may or may not actually be harder to use (Never fired a rifle or full automatic), I agree. However, people typically use either energy weapons or pistols most of the time in the game. Shooting at a target from 7-14 meters with a 9mm is not that hard, provided you take aim. A crew-shaped target in the game would be even easier to hit since it is larger. The safety switch and the button to take the magazine out of the gun aren't even hard to locate (Do safeties even exist on in-game firearms?). As for energy weapons, handling them should be even easier. Energy weapons would have no noticeable (key word there) recoil, as they essentially shoot beams of light, so the problem of the bullet dropping and recoil messing up accuracy is nonexistent, so the lasers should travel in a straight line, making the laser guns in the game easier to shoot than ballistic weaponry. This statement is supported by game mechanics, since the lasers in the game travel in straight lines and the laser weapons have no recoil. Not to mention laser weapons having no safeties or need to reload. As for changing settings, I would presume that IC laser weapons have a setting switch that would be located where the safety switch is. Those things considered, does handling a gun in-game require as much training as people make it out to? Discuss.

Yes, now please stop derailing the thread. We are not claiming that the admins are conspiring against the playerbase.

Yes, that's where the "For continuing a discussion even after being told to stop" warning came from after I posted a link to an....unusual music video, saying "Let's all shut up and enjoy the music" after the discussion was shut down. That's the Nanako one. But I was not continuing a discussion after being told to stop. Post the PMs where I said to you that I was going to make a complaint please More than once 2 days ago?That's the day (Or was it the day after?) the warning for "Circumvention of game mechanics", I don't recall being told to stop "Shitstirring" more than once. I would like to see the logs of THAT. Sounds like you are starting to put your own spin on the story. Ah,my bad. The wording of the post suggested that you were talking about WARNINGS (The ones that can be read with the my-warnings verb), not notes.

Context matters. What happened was that I asked why a certain nerf was put in place (Though,yes, I used all caps to make what I said more noticeable), and he/she responded with "I'm sorry, you filthy heretic, did something interrupt your validhunting?". He/she must have logged shortly after. Yes, there was sarcasm in that reply,but how do you expect someone not so say anything when met with a reply that reeks of baseless personal grudges? Where did you get that number from? The only warnings I have active are the one about "circumventing mechanics"(Not really OOC drama), "For continuing a discussion after being told to stop",and one for mishandling a hostage situation (Which I acknowledged a long time after it was placed). As for the note number, I am pretty sure most of those were relating to gameplay issues, not OOC attitude.

Tell us more about that. Tell us about the DSay part. And how is that relevant when arguing about whether or not the warning, for an unrelated reason and which has been placed before the event, was warranted? Now,for anyone reading. What happened was that someone( I think it was Complete Garbage) said "Kill yourself" over OOC (wew) to me. The staff said to "Stop with the kill yourself shit". I thought it meant just stop with TELLING people to do it,not discussing the topic in general. I replied with "I am not so sensitive as to require protection" (Or something along those lines), then the rest happened. Is that shit-stirring to you? How rude.

And my opening argument for why the system should be reverted has been neatly let slide and ignored, wew.

Tell us more about that.

Whether or not I actually believe that does not matter. Staff usually insist on being objective when deciding whether or not someone broke a server rule (Like that one time with a former mod and drones that killed mice.....) and objectivity seems to be a selling point for some of the mod applications, with one of the interview questions being asked specifically to judge that. So if the staff try to be objective when looking for violations, whether or not it goes against the "Spirit of the server", why can't players be objective when arguing that, at first glance, a rule was broken, but objectively, it wasn't? Seems like a figurative hole in staff's objectivity. Seems a bit hypocritical,with all due respect. So staff have said that the mouse thing is not a bug, and the rules say: Which would mean that the rule implicitly says that non-bugs do not apply.

the issue here is that you've already known where the blob is. there's usually a minute for the blob to grow in, and it can take anywhere from 2 more or even 7 minutes to locate the blob, this issue is even worse when there's no AI or if it's dead hour. even if you manage to effectively take it down, by the time you've setup. the damage is already done. That is why we have engineering to fix that damage. Then beg engineering to fix the damage, or provide weapons and bombs for the crew to fight off the blob before that happens. Very few things are actually irreplaceable in the game, and the ones that are irreplaceable and are of any value are a good distance away from maintenance. 1: It seems that you want blobs to be worse at breaking things. That is the whole point of a blob: To eat the station and cause havoc, and it is the job of engineers and security to deal with it. This adds urgency to the blob threat. If a blob was suddenly worse at doing those things,then it isn't as urgent of a threat, which ruins the point of the blob. 2:Seems arbitrary. Refer to point one. 3: That removes the decompression hazard of blobs. It seems that what people find issues with is the blob venting areas of the station. I have a simple solution to that issue: Get the fuck out before you get vented. The whole point of the blob is that it is a hazard that the crew must deal with, lest they suffer the effects. The only people that get affected by blobs venting areas of the station are incompetent crew and civilians.If you are not wearing a suit when you got something to do during a blob outbreak,you can't blame anyone but yourself for getting royally fucked. If you are a civilian with no access to a suit, you get a warning in advance in the form of sounds coming from maintenance,shutters dropping, and walls beginning to crack. If you don't get out of the way when those warning signs are present,you can't blame anyone but yourself. thus what will happen is blobs will become very stronk in maintenance, growing to a respectable size before crew can gank it, but won't deal that much damage, Yes please.

And is that relevant regarding the validity of the argument? I will gladly change my view regarding this if my argument is addressed instead of us trading blows back and forth. And this relates to the issue of whether or not the current voting system that got implemented a while ago should be reverted how,exactly? This thread is getting derailed, as such,I would like to refer 1138 to my previous post so that this can be discussed without talking about things other than those within this thread.

If you want to look at it that way. I also said why, IMO, my actions did not violate the rules. Seems like your interpretation of what is dickish and what isn't is different from mine, this is going to get faaaar..... I was not using the CT function for any benefit to myself. I explained, using the only concrete source I had at the time, why unintended features are not bugs.

And in this thread,I am saying why I think that should not be the case. Sounds like the exact same pretense under which the "No vote influencing11111" rule was put into place last year (it did get removed, but still....). By your logic, non-ghosts calling CT votes also add peer pressure. If you took time to read what I wrote (Seemingly,you didn't), you would see that I am saying that ghosts should be able to call and vote for CT because they generally have the most information about the round, more so than any given character, even the AI. Discussion about this is more suitable for the other thread. Nice use of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well .

BYOND Key: SomeoneOutThere Staff BYOND Key: OneOneThreeEight Game ID: Don't know, but the time was 2017-03-25 02:23:22 Reason for complaint: Issuing a warning despite me not breaking any server rules at the time. Not only that,but a SEVERE warning. Evidence/logs/etc: Additional remarks: What happened was that I joined the round, became a mouse, ghosted, and then started a CT vote. It did not pass, but 1138 still bwoinked me about it, and "Circumventing game mechanics". When I asked which rules specifically forebode it, he/she cited "Don't be a dick". How doing that is even remotely dickish and fun-removing compared to any other method of starting a CT vote is beyond me. What starting a CT vote did was give the option to reboot the server to those currently playing or those that have played. One vote is not going to change the outcome of that. The option to reboot the server still lies with the majority of the playerbase. If it would have went through, that would mean that the majority of people wanted it. What would have been dickish is if a CT actually commenced without a 2/3rds majority agreeing on it. The next rule that was cited was "Abuse of bugs, regardless of intent, is a punishable offence. All bugs should be reported on GitHub. If they are immediately gamebreaking, please contact server staff via adminhelp, in an attempt to find a temporary resolution." IMO, the use of game mechanics which were coded without errors (Code-wise) does not constitute a bug, but rather using game mechanics "legally" for some purpose. Since various people/sources will offer different interpretations of it, I have to use a concrete source, Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_exploits Taking advantage of the systems that make up the gameplay. A game mechanics exploit is not a bug—it is working as designed, but at the same time is not working as intended. An example is the "wavedash" in Super Smash Bros. Melee, where the momentum gained from using a directional aerial dodge could be retained on landing; with proper timing this allows characters to use a stationary attack while sliding across the ground. The CT vote thing was not made possible by an error in the code: The mechanic is still working as designed (Which makes it a non-bug). As for the "Intended purpose", the rules do not address that.

And why do you think that? The notion that ghosts that are observing the round should not be capable of starting a CT vote seems entirely arbitrary,just like the whole "Vote influencing" BS we had last year. Whenever a player starts a CT vote, he/she is presenting that option for others to judge. Since we have a 2/3rds majority rule encoded in the game mechanics, one single vote is not likely to sway the verdict of the vote. If a vote started by a ghost actually results in a CT, that means that the majority of people playing have decided that it is best for the round to end. The choice,ultimately, lies with the people playing or those that have played. Now, onto why I think that ghosts themselves should be able to vote or start votes,observer or not: Players observing the current round can, unless they toggle it in their preferences, see all of the dialogue that is going on at the time, and see anything that is currently happening. Thus, the ghosts of those who died in the game and those observing the round can, IMHO, make a better judgement about whether or not a round should end, as they have more information about the round at any given time (From being able to see anywhere they wish and seeing all dialogue that is currently happening) and serve as a (sorta) objective third party. Now, as for ghosts that joined a minute or so ago, those ghosts starting a CT vote will still only have 1 vote to cast for or against a reboot, and all it does is leave to option to initiate CT to the people currently playing or (Formerly) those ghosts that are observing and have more information about the round, AKA people that know more about the round. Again, that comes down to other people ultimately deciding whether or not to initiate CT. One vote by a ghost that booted up BYOND seconds ago is unlikely to influence the vote in any significant way, since the vote requires a 2/3 majority for CT to end the round. Not allowing ghosts to start CT votes,regardless of the time they have played for, would remove the ability of observers-most of which have more information about a round than any given character- to make a, IMHO, informed judgement regarding CT. If a ghost starts a CT vote after joining seconds ago,he/she is very unlikely to affect the round in any way unless others think that the round should end or continue. This is reminiscent of the "Vote influence" drama that we had last year: Both systems were implemented for arbitrary reasons under the pretense of preventing abuse. Ultimately, everyone still had his/her own opinion regarding the issue and could voice it in votes, and one person was not going to change it in any way.

This reminds me of the whole "NO VOTE INFLUENCE11111111111111" bullshit that we had last year. What a vote does is put the option of transfer on the table for the rest of the playerbase to judge, and the new voting system should be reverted soon.

Look at this precious gem I found: http://transbacterium.tumblr.com/

Blobs not sucking people in diagonally still ruins the point of the suck-in mechanic, to prevent idiots from rushing the blob with melee weaponry. If the blob can't suck in diagonally, people will just attack it from there with melee weapons. It would, in essence, be a nerf. My opinion regarding it is this: If one is able to attack the blob with melee weapons, the blob should be able to suck/attack back.Now, is it possible to attack the blob diagonally from behind two girders arranged diagonally, including shooting a laser or bullet diagonally? If so, then there is absolutely no need to remove the ability to suck diagonally. If not (When walled off diagonally from the blob,neither the spessman nor the blob can attack), then I got a simple solution: Check if BOTH tiles adjacent to the target and the blob tile that both of them share are obstructed. If yes, do not attack. If only one or neither,the blob may attack/suck in normally. For our purposes, the ability to diagonally shoot a laser or ballistic point-blank through two girders should count as a melee attack (Because being able to shoot through two diagonal girders while the blob can't retaliate is just cheesy as fuck).Here are a few simple graphics attached: The green B is a blob tile,the red T is the spessman, the purple Xs are obstructions. In this case, neither the blob nor the target should be able to do anything to each other,the adjacent tiles that they share are obstructed. In the two lower images, one of the adjacent tiles that the target and blob tile shares is obstructed, both should be able to attack one another, and the blob able to suck in diagonally:

As a possible alternative to the DNA Repair minigame, the tumors idea sounds good. Cloning would cause tumors to grow in random parts of the body and interfere with that body part's function. To permanently stop the tumor from being a problem, surgery is needed. If surgery can't be done,synaptizine will stop the effects of the tumors while it is inside the victim, but at the cost of poisoning the clone. That way, clones don't require too much bullshit,but the process is not inconsequential. Or,perhaps, both ideas can be implemented?

#How2Sec:

https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=7589&p=73623&hilit=medbay+overhaul#p73623 See the last few posts for a better idea.

It is, but it is much more expensive and has less uses than the E-Mag. If one of the special functions of a machine is triggered, it would be quite noticeable that something is very,very wrong with the machinery. The issue of the item being too stealthy can be fixed. If an engineer manages to extract the kit from a rigged machine, a function could be added whereby disassembling it by using screwdriver,crowbar,screwdriver, multitool on it would extract the kit's circuitboard, and potentially allow tracing it to the owner. Whoever it is traced to will have a lot of explaining to do as to why the control computer for a machine that sabotages station equipment has been traced to him/her.Mind you, the process of rigging a machine would not be a stealthy one at all. If one is caught in the middle of it, it would already be very suspicious. The ability to get physical contact with the machine would be needed to sabotage it. Most of the time, people will take note of someone opening the panel of a fully functional vendor or computer and putting a strange device inside. High-risk, high-reward.

I came up with this idea a couple days ago. The point of this new item which I will describe below is to give traitors a tool that can be used to sabotage station equipment and cause damage in ways other than murdering anything that moves. I present: The Saboteur Kit Coming Never This is an item that would cost anywhere from 9 telecrystals to a traitor's entire supply, whatever it may be. The item(s) has six or so uses for machinery on the station. Depending on the type of machinery, a varying number of uses is consumed when the kit is used.Depending on the specific machinery sabotaged by the kit, the function of the machine is altered permanently unless it is removed from the machine, as well as giving the user total control over the machine that has been rigged. The traitor that bought the kit also gets a laptop with the ability to control the machinery that has been rigged and its functions. Using the laptop will allow the owner to toggle the functions of hijacked machinery on and off, gain vision of the area around the rigged machinery, and whatever else people may come up with. The kit itself, which is what will be used for sabotage, would grant the affected machinery a variety of new functions. To use, simply use a screwdriver on the machine and then use the kit on it. The kit can be removed by using a screwdriver on the machine, and then a multitool. Each kit will automatically give the affected machinery the following functions,as well as control from the aforementioned laptop: Hidden Item: This allows the traitor to insert an item into the rigged machinery. When the function is toggled on via the laptop, the machine will use the item on whoever tries to interact with it. The item can be switched at any time by using a screwdriver on the machine, followed by clicking it with an empty hand. If the hidden item is a gun, the machine will shoot the gun at whoever tries to interact with it. If the item is a syringe, then whoever interacts with the machine will be injected with it if he/she does not back away quick enough. If the item is a grenade, the grenade will be activated and thrown. If the item is a melee weapon, then whoever interacts with the machine will get attacked by it. Obviously, those things would be VERY noticeable. TTV bombs can also be hidden, but they can only be hidden within large machinery. Hidden Camera Allows the person controlling the rigged machinery to use it to gain vision of the area around it. Self-Destruct: Causes the rigged machine to detonate,destroying both the kit and the machine. Also produces shrapnel, with the force of the explosion and amount of shrapnel depending on the machinery in question. In the case of vendors, the amount of shrapnel generated by the explosion will scale with the amount of items that were in the vendor at the time. If a chemical dispenser is rigged, it will spray the surrounding tiles, and whoever is unfortunate enough to be near when it does, with the contents of the dispenser. Total Control: Allows the hacker complete control of the machine, bypasses access requirements. Special Function: Each machine will have at least one of these. The exact function depends on the machine. Here are some special functions for machinery that I came up with off the top of my head: Recharger: Overcharge Weapon: Overcharges the weapon that was placed into it, causing the weapon to be destroyed in a small explosion if it is ever fired. The explosion produces some shrapnel and sets the shooter on fire. May blow off a hand or two. In the case of ion rifles, the rifle will also generate an EMP. EMP: Exactly what it implies. The recharger can be made to emit an EMP. Vendor: Nasty Surprise: Chops off the hand of anyone that tries to use the vendor if the function is toggled on. Shock: Shocks anyone that uses the vendor. APC: Overload: Drains all power from the APC to explode a machine within its area. Shock: Dumps all power within into shocking whoever tries to use it or walks within 1 tile of it. EMP: Creates an EMP. Scales with amount of power stored. SMES: Same abilities as APC, but the shock, EMP, and overload are much more powerful. Grid Check: Forces a station-wide grid-check, but disables the saboteur machine for 10 minutes. At the end of the check, the anomalous SMES will be revealed to the entire crew. Jukebox: Override:Allows the hacker to read WGW and other atrocities use the jukebox to speak to those nearby. Can also disguise the hacker's voice. Deafen: Does the same thing as Emagging the jukebox would. Computers: Hijack: Allows the user to modify the programs on the computer and data contained within. For instance, modify the readings of the suit sensor monitor program, or give fake data about the power levels on the SMES units. Surgery Table: Restrain: Deploys clamps which keep whoever is on the table pinned down to it. Impossible to resist out of. The victim can be saved by using a wrench on the table five times when the restrain ability is active. The wrench will permanently deactivate this ability. Strangle: A piece of garrote is deployed, which begins strangling the victim. Takes the same amount of time to kill as a kill grab would. The victim can be saved if wirecutters are used on the table. If wirecut, this ability will be disabled permanently. Surgery: Allows the hacker to do surgery remotely. This requires a surgery kit to be installed as a hidden item, and only the tools within that kit will be usable. Can be disabled with a screwdriver. Body Scanner: Forge Results: Allows the hacker to modify the all the data presented by the body scanner. A fake result can be prepared in advance to be used when a patient is scanned, so as to avoid wasting time. Restrain: Locks the victim inside. Can be disabled with a wrench. Sleeper: Restrain: Same as above. Expanded Variety: Allows other chemicals to be injected into the victim,good or bad. Exsanguinate: Rapidly draws blood from the victim. Can be stopped by using a screwdriver. Chem Dispenser: Mislabel: Allows the hacker to change the labels on the cartridges. Chemicals that get dispensed from the cartridges would also be labelled with the fake names. Cloner: Gib: Obvious. Leaves the brain intact. Cryocells: Restrain: Same as above. Various bots: Control the bot. In the case of medbots, will allow the hacker to cause the bot to synthesize and inject people with chemicals of his/her choice. Does not synthesize chemicals requiring phoron. In the case of the ED bot, allows the hacker to toggle the taser between stun and lethal, as well as make it pursue specific individuals. Cyborg Recharger: Subversion: Emags whatever synthetics happen to come inside,slaving them to the hacker. In the case of multiple traitors rigging the machine, the synthetic will be slaved to whichever hijacked the machine first. Borgification: Allows non-synthetics to be placed inside, but they must be restrained or unconscious. Once inside, they will slowly be converted into a cyborg, while giving plenty of indication that something is wrong. The cyborg charger will also take metal to do so. Due to being so powerful, 4 uses of the saboteur kit have to be expended on a charger. Autolathe and Protolathe: Dismemberment: Chops the hand off of anyone that attempts to use the machine. Self-Destruct: Explodes,generating shrapnel. The amount of shrapnel generated depends on the amount of resources inside. In the case of the Protolathe, uranium would make the shrapnel give minor radiation damage. Destructive Analyzer: Compact Recycler: Allows items that would normally not be allowed inside to be deconstructed. Dismember: Same as above. Suit Storage Unit: Irradiate: Blasts those nearby, or perhaps those targetted by whoever is controlling the machine, with a dose of radiation. If the machine has been modified to emit lethal radiation, it will deal more damage to the target in addition to causing burns. The self-destruct ability will cause the amount of shrapnel generated to vary with the number of suit components inside. Turret: Override: Gives the hacker full control of the turret and causes it to be independent from the turret control that it was linked up to. Borgs: Subvert: Emags the borg, gives it a module change. Xenoarchaeology Mass Spectrometer: Irradiate: Blasts those nearby with a dose of radiation, the exact amount depending on how much radiation the spectrometer is emitting. Virus Grower: Irradiate: Same as above. Containment Breach: Infects those nearby and without protective gear with whatever virus was inside the machine. The self-destruct ability generates shrapnel. If the shrapnel hits anybody and pierces the clothing, that person will become infected with a virus. The same applies to the other virology machinery.