SodaPopBob

How dare you not post my end of poll comment. Fuck this server

no, thats someone else

Right, I play Kiara fields, keegan judge, and luke haynes, scientist, cadet, and miner respectively

i just got my first job ban today and i'm pretty bummed out about it. I've been told that i need to work on my escalation, and i intend on getting it right. Does anyone have any tips, commentary, criticism etc on any rounds you have seen me as antag?

I wish we could do this as well, it really breaks immersion when conversations take place at snails pace, and text based conversation without a turn system makes combat RP non existent. But i see the point others make, how sweaty nerd voices doesn't really lend itself to aliens... Or does it?

Well i was reading into very limited context, if that is what happened i don't see anything wrong with it. Your explanation for why my book should be withheld still isnt very satisfactory to me personally however. As a side note, i do want to give you kudos for RPing with me as captain. You really caught me off guard when you actually accepted my original offer. This isnt directed at any particular captain, lots of them do it, but most would of gave me a terse 2 word reply and moved on without giving me any time to respond.

this makes more sense, and if i'm honest with myself it is a conclusion i should of came up with myself IC, and I need to work on my RP in tight situations. I think i understand what happened now. Really, i should of approached this angle on my own, and if/when i was denied, then ahelp on the dubiousness of having a reason to withhold the book. I apologize for any hostility and frustration from myself in ahelps and in the staff complaint. I still maintain that the captain really had no IC cause to withhold my book, based on the fact that its only link to her torture is being the teachings of my religion. To beat a dead horse, it wasn't involved in any torture, there was no real IC reason to deny it to me on the basis that it is dangerous for me to have it. In my eyes, a comparable scenario is the outlaw of christian healing, and when a roadside preacher is seen slapping the hell out of a cripple to heal them, and is jailed, denying them their bible. Yeah, he had one on him, but it wasn't involved- nor was their any real reason to believe- that the bible was instrumental to the assault, or the assault was accomplished with the bible. The bible opened the preacher's eyes to the religion, but any powers would be innate to the preacher himself unless witnessed to have come from his bible directly. If you were to ask the cripple who was assaulted if the preacher should have his bible, the cripple wouldn't really have any reason to deny him it, as it's not dangerous, in his eyes it's just teachings of a religion the preacher is already involved in, bible or no at this point. If the preacher hit the cripple with the bible, or in view of the cripple, opened the book, slit his finger, and drew a rune in blood while chanting FROM the bible which then proceeded to torture the cripple, then yeah, i could see reason to deny the preacher his bible. In my eyes, the captains tactical use of the preacher in the round kind of reinforces this "meta" play in my eyes. Admins might not agree, but in my eyes directly calling a priest to handle an EMP is just irrational, especially when there are more reasonable explanations for an electromagnetic pulse besides "devils did it, call the pastor". Calling a pastor to gain insight to the situation would be understandable, but the way he was called over comms kind of suggests a tactical deployment of holy power. Maybe logs between pastor and captain would clarify one way or another, as i'm reading into limited context here, and i feel that the crux of my argument is slight meta play from captain. If this is something that yourself and mediators determine to still be acceptable play, ill accept it and work on remembering this when I play cult in future rounds.

I quoted those in the previous message, in the spoiler. that wasn't the entire conversation that revolved around semantics, just part of it. Actually, if we are being strict with the IC text, I said that I found a book in a library that gave me the knowledge , and then later requested my texts . In the Ahelp, you made it pretty clear that in your eyes, there's a difference between the two, and I should elaborate on it . It seems to kind of bounce back and forth, when i'm asking the captain for it, i need to refer to it specifically as a book, but in the captain's eyes, its all the same thing, but in the ahelp when you explain the captains reasoning, it's not? This all gets really unnecessarily confusing, and it could all be avoided if we all just agreed to use our common sense and understand what is being referred to when im saying "religious text" or "bible" etc. I'm honestly sorry as well, i could of been more clear in the ahelps, i was just getting frustrated with the situation, and again, this has been a recurring problem in the past, and it can be hard to be straightforward and clear when i'm frustrated. It's something i will work on in the future. I got arrested, was denied my book, and got tied up in ahelps and thought "oh hell this again, god fucking damnit" and communication wasn't as straightforward as it could of been. However, i do still feel that this was unnecessarily complicated. A situation that, when common sense was applied, could've been a 5 min max scenario stretched into 30 or so minutes with no satisfactory resolution one way or the other, simply because all parties decided that they forgot what synonyms are, and played the "what, book? she asked for a TEXT. what does she want, an sms?" game. Everyone involved knew what was being referred to, knew where it was, and unfortunately, were allowed to slightly meta and deny my character the book, then played the literal game to get out of it in Ahelps, and instead of you saying "come on now, you know what he is talking about, quit being coy", you played along, and overlooked things like how the captain didn't even have an IC reason to believe the book should be revoked, despite me actually being clear about that in Ahelp.

As a side note, you are arguing now that the captain wouldn't want to give me the book because i tortured her, but during the ahelps your reasoning was that no one could seem to understand me because i was using synonyms, see: You are also working on the assumption that the captain is saying they are going to burn religious texts that aren't on station, or that the captain is going to burn the book that she doesn't know exists and is in my bag. A book that she really doesn't know actually DOES anything IC. I didn't use the book in front of her, i didn't shake it around while chanting during her torture, i didn't whip it out and scribe a rune with it in front of her, she walked in right on the heels of a successful conversion. If we are looking at this IC, the book just opened up my mind to the religion, and I ran with that and got my powers through the persuit of said religion, assuming that the book is the source of my powers is slightly meta, which i wouldn't really say if it weren't for the other things the captain did, like call for a priest to respond to an EMP attack. This is even supported IC, if you reread my conversation with the captain which i posted and you RE posted, you can see that i say specifically that reading the book opened my mind to the universe, but there's nothing saying that the book is the source of my power, or even if its the same book in my possessions. It could be argued that no one knows i have the book, but i really doubt it. I was arrested, and my things were searched. Allan would of mentioned I have this book, and knew of its existence when I asked for it during my confinement. Alan had NO idea that the book had anything to do with the attack and didn't turn it over. The borgs just flat out ignored me. Prate i can understand the confusion behind my being frustrated about this, but this is on the heels of at least three other incidents where Ive been denied my book under different circumstances, and by the time im done with the IC interactions and the Ahelps, my sentence is done or a shuttle is called, and its too late. You yourself was involved in one of these incidents if i remember correctly. The captain can outlaw my religion on station, but i really doubt that she can tell me what religion im personally allowed to partake in, and im not going to be spreading my religion from the interior of a jail cell, and with no real IC reason to believe that the book actually does anything besides teach you about a new religion, I just dont see any reason to withhold it, outside of "OOC i know that this book makes runes, there's no wat that im giving them the book." you mention that the text could be the paper in my bag, and you are absolutely right, it COULD be, which is even MORE of a reason to allow me to have the book itself. Yes, she "didn't know i have a book on me" except she threatened to burn said texts, texts that she didn't know existed apparently, so couldn't burn. Then she made no attempt to find said texts. Didn't search my belongings which would be a reasonable place to look. That's because she knew it was in my bag and safely locked up, and denied me access to it.

Like i said in the Ahelps, i can concede that the priest wasn't meta, i don't necessarily agree with it but i can see how it could be considered fine. My problem was with the wordplay and semantics that was somehow used to keep me from getting my book, because i didn't see the specific password "book" and do the secret handshake. If command needs an engineer to open a door, and because command says "door" and not "airlock", does it excuse the engineer from trouble when he doesn't comply? If the HoS tells a sec officer to apply "restraints" and because he didn't use the exact phrasing "handcuffs" and the criminal gets away, is the sec officer now free from review, because instead of using his brain, he sat there twiddling his thumbs pondering the meaning of "restraints"? Again, my problem was with the unnecessary semantics. The captain and borgs each knew exactly what i was referring to both OOC and IC, this wasn't an issue of genuine confusion in either OOC IC, because of some poor wording on my part, it was an outright refusal or simply ignoring on theirs. Im not a mod and im not going to assume to tell you what your job is, but i would think that when Ahelped, the mod would normally when being amicable, poke those guys and remind them that its required that i have my religious BOOK, not engage in a 30+ minute conversation on semantics and definitions that I can only assume was for the lulz based on the direction it went. Telling me that no one knows what im talking about because I used a synonym, much less a captain, who has to have played the game for a while now and have a good understanding of the mechanics involved, is again disingenuous on Matts part. Because IC, she had no reason to believe that the book held any power beyond being a book. Again, it wasn't used in the ritual, and it didn't display any powers above the norm. The torture was performed using a symbol etched in blood. If anything, i should of been placed in a straight jacket if she was worried about me using any mystic powers.

BYOND Key: Sodapopbob Staff BYOND Key: MattAtlas Game ID: bRT-ckjU Reason for complaint: Ruling dispute Evidence/logs/etc: Additional remarks: It was a cult round, and i was converting a member of science as peace cult, when the captain rushes in to see what was going on (misc testing) which is odd, sec probably should've been called in first but it's just the beginning here. We (three cultists total) have a discussion with the captain, which goes as follows. Security comes in, takes away the captain, and after some dialog, there's another conversion, which is successful. Henderson Minnie. Its not relevant to the complaint, so i'm not including it. MattAtlas played a game of semantics during the Ahelp, so the thing to take away from this, very specifically, is that After digging through an old library, i found an ancient tomb, which has given me understanding into the insights of the universe. Remember that. Notice nothing was said about said tomb being on my person, or said tomb giving me powers, and i didn't pull out and use the tomb during the conversion of the captain, the rune was already there when she showed up. all that was said was that a tomb i found expanded my mind. After the conversion of the detective, we received an announcement from the captain that i was to not continue the conversions more or less. I told her it was my right to practice my religion, and i was served an arrest warrant. Knowledge and a sec borg came to arrest me, and i came peacefully. Here is the arrest. Again, due to semantics, i'm going to post the conversation, and point out the important parts at the end. Keep in mind that towards the end of the following texts, i'm also Ahelping with Matt but they are cut out and will be included in the complaint later. So a couple of things to point out here due to semantics on Matts part, keep these in mind. I refered to my cult book as a religious trinket, a bible, and religious texts. As a side note, Henderson Minnie set off an EMP rune, and the captain called for a priest. I feel that this is Meta, and mention it in my future ahelp. You can see that when she calls for a priest, she isn't doing so in a "i need guidance" way, but a "I need your abilities to deal with this new problem" way, the same way one would call sec to deal with a hostile situation. A priest was called to deal with an EMP/cultist, which the player KNOWS is a cultist due to her previous attempted conversion. So onto my ahelps. Now again, keep in mind that I have so far referred to my cult book as a religious text, a bible, and a religious trinket. Every time i requested them, i was ignored, and once flat out denied, being told by the captain that the priest had to "cleanse it with fire." Remember before when i told you that the cult book was not used during the interaction with the captain. She had no reason to believe that a book on my person had the power to do anything besides be a book. I've been told in the past by a mod whose name i can't remember that, when arrested, it's my right to retain my religious trinkets, and when asked for them, security is supposed to supply them. The following is the crux of my complaint, and it's VERY confusing because again, Matt wanted to play semantics. So to sum this up, the captain refused to give me my religious book that they (supposedly) had no knowledge of me possessing, despite them clearly saying "i'm getting a priest to burn it" because i didn't SPECIFICALLY REFER TO IT AS A BOOK. I called it just about everything it could be called outside of directly calling it a book, I called it a bible, religious trinket, religious text, religious tomb, it was clear what i was doing and what i wanted. I was ignored, and told directly by the captain my religious text would be destroyed. By the time Matt said "if you had referred to it as a book specifically you would of got it back" my sentence was up. I had spent 20 minutes in the brig literally arguing semantics with Matt, and it kept going after i was released. OOC, the captain knew exactly what i was talking about, because i tried to convert them and they knew i was a cultist. IC, the captain would know exactly what i'm talking about, because everyone and their mother who has ever read even one book knows that a book can be referred to as a bible, text, and tomb. The captain had no reason to believe the book was dangerous, she never saw it used in any ritual. For all she knew (in fact, all she should of known IC) is that my "powers" were innate. Matt said i could infect others with the book, but i'm locked up in a cell. If the captain was so concerned with the book being loose for that reason, why was an investigation not launched to find the book? Why wasn't I questioned about the book? If i'm asking to have my religious text, it's fairly clear that it's in my possessions. If anyone was concerned with allowing me to retain my religious trinkets, and it was SO confusing as to where it was, why was I ignored and flat out told it would be destroyed, rather than asked where it was? The captain knew what i was talking about, the borgs knew what i was talking about, Alan knew what i was talking about, Matt knew what i was talking about, I requested them in person to everyone involved, and even announced it over the common channel, there was no IC reason to deny the book to me, and my entire conversation with Matt was bogged in semantics, wordplay, and dishonesty, with stories and definitions changing free form. To say that I couldn't be understood because i used a very clear synonym for book is ridiculous, both IC and OOC. As a final note, this is what, the third time as a cultist i have been denied my book while i'm in lockup? It seems to be a common tactic to ignore the cultist asking for their religious book, and let ahelps run the timer out, or let the round end resolve it, or just feign ignorance as to where the book is. Its happened enough and in so specific of a way that im sure im not the first to deal with this, and you think that ahelps would be more straightforward in this regard.

you keep saying clear signs of modification, but the only signs were doors being tampered with, which could of been done that second, its not a huge modification. Its not like i rebuilt the room structure, and there was reason to believe that walls could of been tampered with in that fashion. I snipped the door bolt and light wires, that's it. with the mensons, you could see i laid out tile and set up tables, but beyond that, i just don't see how that's enough to expect a secret door. Maybe if i had torn down a bunch of walls, sure, i could see how that could be the case. or torn down the doors and replaced them with walls, absolutely, i could see that. but snipping two wires in two doors, that just doesn't make sense. that can be done in less than a minute, it doesn't really give an indication that there was a big time construction project going on. there was no point in telling you that he said what he said in ooc, because immediately after you said"yes they do" (mensons seeing through walls), you just flat out ignored everything else i said. i had to rebuild my scenario and screen cap it to you before you would consider responding back. it's not that it's hidden knowledge, it's that it's the most unlikely of scenarios in this situation. there were no real big indications of a construction project to justify really looking for one. the doors were busted. there's way better IC explanations for that, like i snipped them when i came in, or the room is just old and unused, or a power issue. jumping to "secret doors" just makes no sense to me. Especially when they were already fixing the doors when the officer found my secret one. Everyone else assumed the most logical thing, that i just altered the doors, he was the only one that jumped to "secret door"

BYOND Key: Sodapopbob Staff BYOND Key: Alberyk Game ID: bR0-cHh4 (game after) Reason for complaint: A disagreement in a metagame ruling made by Alberyk, when i Ahelped Evidence/logs/etc: https://pastebin.com/y2Rv9LAY Additional remarks: Goes without saying, but i have no issue with Alb or the player in question, but i disagree with this ruling. The only outcome i wanted was a note/warning placed with the player for metagaming, so in the future if its an issue there would be an example of the previous behavior, as a deterrent to continued metagaming. It was a cult round and i was playing RnD. I had kidnapped the bartender, and drug him in a locker through the halls and into science. In misc testing, the AI spotted me welding the locker shut, and told Sec to investigate. I drug the locker into the maintenance halls, and into my secret base. The secret base was set up in the old shooting range behind science, i had cut the bolt and bolt lights wires of the door so no one could tell at a glance that the doors were locked, and installed a secret door in the bottom right corner of the room, in the wall facing east. Inside, i began RP'ing my conversion of the janitor. As we were RP'ing the conversation, I noticed lights on the outside edges of the walls, indicating that someone was out there with a flashlight. I know i'm busted, but continue to RP the encounter. As we are playing it out, I see another light join the first, so i know i'm screwed. I think the bartender knew it too, because he began to stall. No matter, I continue to RP while watching the lights on the walls. they go back and forth around the exterior of the room, from one door to the next, trying them out. then i see one light, starting from the top right door, move slowly down the wall, pausing each step, until they get to my secret door, which opens. I'm caught. It looked like a case of metagame which ill explain my reasoning for later, but for now, this is my conversation with Alb when i Ahelped. Very short, seemingly dismissive conversation from Alb. Based on the way it went, it seemed to me that he dropped the subject at "mensons can see secret doors" and didn't do any further investigation into the issue. This was frustrating, because i MADE the door while wearing mensons, and know they don't see through the doors, so the next round, i made one, put on mensons, took a screen cap, and continued the conversation in DMs. this is the conversation we had. This conversation was very confusing to me, because it seemed as though Alb didn't really know what had happened, despite having said he looked into it. He also said many contradictory things, first saying that he thought the borg had found the door, then saying the officer found it a minute later on accident, then saying that the officer actually looked for the door intentionally later. He stated "they called a borg" as a reason to how they found the door, which makes no sense. The conversation itself was very confusing, which is why I bring it to a Staff complaint, because the whole thing felt phoned in, and the reasoning behind Albs ruling made no sense. There are ways to tell if a secret door exists. If you step in blood or oil, and then walk into a secret door, it leaves tracks that make it clear that there is a secret door there. If you walked up on a room that you know had two doors, and today it has NO doors, it would make sense to think a door is hidden somewhere. But to see that a door is not working, in a room that is no longer used no less, i don't see the logical jump that is necessary to believe a secret door must exist. To address the final statement Alb made in the DMs, yes, the doors were tampered with. But not in a way that makes a secret door believable. Maybe i just disabled the doors when i entered the room to discourage anyone that followed me (as a note, these officers weren't hot on my heels. there was time to set up my conversion before they showed up.) or maybe the doors in the unused room are just not working due to a mechanical/electrical error, maybe its an unrelated issue, someone tampered with them etc. To jump from "doors not working" to "secret door" is clearly metaknowledge. its also made clearer by the players response that he "accidentally found the secret door" in ooc. this isn't scooby doo, he did not slip and start a hilarious chain of reactions that resulted in him triggering the secret door. The player, knowing that secret doors is an option, systematically tried walls until he found the door, despite IC reasons that make more sense being present, with no IC indications that a door could be there.

all of this please. Ive been shut down so many times in espionage, taking as many steps as completely changing my entire outfit AND haircut/beard, to be outed by a mouse hover.

There's a saying that goes something along the lines of "Morality makes an excellent slave, but a terrible master." that I think kind of applies here. You (Izlay) are very knowledgeable on AI law, or at least you will be after this is said and done, as much as you have quoted it, but your main focus is using that law to justify your aggressive play style (slave), and forget when those same laws actually restrict you, or force you to take a more passive role (master). I get the feeling that you are more used to playing on other, lower RP servers, where it's a little fast and loose. What i see with a lot of players coming from other servers is that they interpret HRP as a strict guideline on gibbing, and you might just need to rethink your approach. Every round exists in a universe that is supposed to make some kind of sense in a round about way. AI is not supposed to be as aggressive as you play it normally. In my round for example, you were more than content to use the law to your advantage, but didn't stop to think that you are more of a passive observer than a digital judge dredd. There was little investigation, little observance. If i was antag, and I was hurting that scientist, this complaint most likely wouldn't exist. From what i'm reading of others experiences, it seems to be a common trend. Your interpretation of the AI law has made it a slave to your desire to be aggressive in your play style, which is entirely appropriate for a Malf, but not for standard AI of which the law is a master of. I can't dictate how you run your AI, but just a piece of advice, try not to play like you are on a hair trigger, short fuse ready to dish out cybernetic justice. YOU are the slave to your programing, the programing isn't a slave to you. Escalate scenarios appropriately. Communicate. In our interaction, you were adamant that you gave me 3 chances to answer, but I was showing no signs of the interaction being time sensitive. For all you knew, that scientist could of had a bomb smuggled up his ass, and was ready to blow the whole station to kingdom come, and you would of definitely been doing the opposite of protecting anyone.

No. So below i have cut out all chatter from the time i made the arrest to the instant im attacked, and only included the relevant parts to the above claim you made. Ready? So you can see here, that not only did the borg NEVER at any point ask what was going on, and why i did it, but YOU only asked me once, and you only asked me what was going on, not why it happened, and not only that, but i answered you, TWICE, and even explained the reasoning behind my arrest when asked by someone else. Thats it, thats the only time you asked me about the arrest. Before that, you were telling me to leave the stranger/non crew member with potentially lethal bears that i was standing next to alone, and demanding that i address the stun baton a floor below because, you know, bears ex dee; then demanding my capture because of the screaming of a crewmember under arrest. And after this, you were mocking me, telling me i'm acting like a baby that needs to be put in time out. You didn't ask me three times, and i answered the questions directed at me to the best of my ability while dealing with a resistant crew member. Not only that, but i wasn't aware that the AI can see health bars, if this is true, then it was painfully obvious to you that the crewmember was completely unharmed, as i DID NOT harm them. So lets recap here. You heard screeching over comms about an attack on a crew member, and when you investigated, you saw a handcuffed, completely unharmed crewmember, in the custody of a security cadet, in the sec lobby, and you took this to mean that it was required to immediately detain ME, because somehow, despite all signs showing otherwise, you deemed Argus to be in some sort of danger. Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor) is a principle from philosophy. Suppose there exist two explanations for an occurrence. In this case the simpler one is usually better. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation is. Clearly, based on the fact that Argus was completely unharmed, and the arrest was proceeding as any other legitimate arrest ever has or ever will, and the arresting officer was a cadet, then the simplest explanation, and the one that makes the most sense, is that the cadet either does not know he can't make arrests, doesn't remember that he cannot make arrests, or doesn't care that he cannot make arrests. You made assumptions that were not only unnecessary, but founded on nothing at all. Then your actions were in the extreme, all you had to do was act on the simplest explanation to the scenario, and tell me that i can't make arrests, and that would be it. The situation would of been instantly defused. The scientist was never in any danger, and again, every single sign pointed to a misunderstanding on my end as to my authority on arrests, so again, the simplest and most common sense way to handle the situation was to tell me i can't make arrests. did you notice how the scientist wasn't dying? How i wasn't attacking them, or showing any intention to attack them? Notice how i'm proceeding in what is clearly an arrest? Notice how when asked, im TELLING you its an arrest? There was no time constraint to get the scientist out of that situation. You didn't make any attempt beyond asking me what was going on to talk through the situation, to RP the scenario, nothing. Which is weird, because again, the scientist was in no immediate danger, so conversation should of been the FIRST thing you did, and to beat a dead horse here, i wasn't showing any signs of aggression, so there was no indication that I wouldn't be receptive to being spoken to. Its very clear based on the logs, that you wanted to escalate the situation and have fun toying with a crewmember, and was upset about bears ex dee, so you ignored all obvious signs to the contrary and jumped to actions that would only be appropriate if i had Argus on the floor stomping him with my jackboot, which he honestly needed based on the way he was bawling over the comms. There was nothing realistic about the way that you acted. Realistically speaking, it was clearly a case of a misunderstanding that was admittedly my fault. To properly escalate the conflict, you should of spoken to me about the arrest, collected the details, corrected me, and then act APPROPRIATELY to my response. You skipped a few steps there, and the obvious nature of my interaction with Argus leads me to believe that it was intentional, and i feel that others would agree with me upon reading the logs i posted in my OP. I said in my OP that i electrified myself, albeit on accident. I might be wrong here, but i'm fairly certain that it wouldn't really matter if i gnawed my own hand off and stabbed myself with the stump, i'm still entitled to medical care while under arrest. You kept me locked up despite having shown no signs of hostility (barring the attack from the borg), and being in a near death state, and not only that, but the borg was present just on the other side of the door, and could of easily dragged in a medkit, and when there WAS a medkit, it wasn't dragged in, despite my pleas that i was about to die. and in case you didn't read the posted logs, i WAS about to die, i bolded the "you are about to die" red text for you. No part of that is serving and protecting. Not only that, but you felt it necessary to get a good demeaning chuckle over comms about my impending death, again, a very MALF thing to do, which was strange since it turned out you weren't. You kept me bolted in every room i went in. Following me, unbolting rooms i wasn't in and bolting the ones i was. There was active effort in keeping me bolted in a room. I remember and have the log, i just didn't include it because i wasn't entirely certain if it was allowed or not, and it wasn't incredibly relevant to my complaint. I cant speak for Catnip, but if i were to hazard a guess as to why he was upset at you appointing a Head, i would say it might have something to do with spending the time you could of used investigating the incident and why it happened by mocking me, calling me a baby that needs to be put in the corner, and laughing about my near death state over comms.

[mention]alexpkeaton[/mention] yeah i saw the law, it seems that the AI pulled a classic one two of "my character is insane, that's why he's acting like a LRP griff" and "this law is so open to interpretation that i'm actually not even following it anymore". I got the strong feeling that the player just wanted to be a Malf, and saw that law as the gateway to making that jump. "Huh, that SM doesn't look happy being stuck in the engine room, i bet it really just wants to release all of its energy already. I should delaminate it."

BYOND Key: SodaPopBob Game ID: bRf-b8Lr (game after) Player Byond Key: Izlay and to a lesser degree, one other unknown Staff involved: SirCatnip Reason for complaint: Rediculous AI play, bordering on Chucklefuckery, along with the Borg in the round Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? Yes Approximate Date/Time: 11/28/17 around 5am CST It was a low pop round, and i was a Sec Cadet, the ONLY member of Sec. I'm on the surface level, making my rounds, and I see a XenoArch (Argus Lindow) talking to a (forget the species name) wearing robes, accompanied by two bears. What the fuck. The bears were clearly tame, there was no danger, but i had to RP this situation. Where the hell did this person (Adzif) get bears? How did they get on station? How did SHE get on station? What is even going on here? I stop the pair, interrupting a conversation where apparently Argus was going to take Adzif to her work station, and RP the encounter. Here's the beginning of it. The conversation has now moved to the elevator, where they both get in. Now keep in mind, im a big advocate against Sec shooting down Antags and their gimmicks. I never had the intention of doing this here. But im a sec cadet, on a research station, who just saw an alien in robes summoning bears seemingly out of nowhere, this needed to be addressed IC. thats all im trying to do here. Argus cant seem to take the hint that im just trying to RP here, and does everything he can to blow me off. It continues below. As we step in the elevator, Argus is trying to get me to piss off, and hits the elevator button to drop the elevator. I stand in the doors to stop it, and Argus keeps grabbing me and dragging me off. After the warning, Argus continues to handle me, pulling me around, and ive had enough of their behavior while im trying to address the non crew member with a bear posse, so i make an arrest. This is where i made my share of the mistakes as i find out later that as a Cadet, im actually not allowed to make arrests. I was confused, because in previous rounds as Keegan, i DID make arrests, but looking back now those were special circumstances. In all reality, i just wanted to get Argus under control so i could deal with the Bear Whisperer, and move on with my life and RP. Below is when i make my arrest. As a note, i accidentally flash the Whizz in an attempt to arrest Argus, and is the only hostile action i take against the whiz the entire round. So basically, I attempt to get control over a situation that, until i had to act, was in no way an arrest, simply questioning, and Argus begins SCREECHING over comms about an insane guy murdering them and their firstborns. Granted, i wasnt supposed to make an arrest, and now that im clear on that it wont be an issue again. But keep in mind, i left all the combat logs in the above spoiler. There was no manic murder spree, i flashed Argus, and was attempting to make an arrest. Thats it. The screeching over comms is just Shit Tier RP. So the elevator makes it to the bottom floor, and the whiz and Argus run, north and east, through the halls. I catch up with Argus as hes screeching over comms and complete my arrest, and bring him into Sec lobby. Keep in mind, again, i keep the combat logs in so you can see how little actual danger this character is in, and can see for yourself how ridiculous his actions are, and how little reason anyone else had after to do what they did. So we are now in Sec lobby, we being me, Argus, and the wizwoz. My first action is to apologize to the whiz for flashing her, and my INTENTION is to now have a conversation with Argus about interfering with sec work, then promptly release them, so i can then deal with the whiz, as it's pretty clear that Argus wanted to do some RP of his own with the whizz, and i don't want to hold that up too long. I dont get the chance, because as you can see, Argus is too busy SPERGING THE HELL OUT and im trying to get control of the situation. MMMM, NOPE. Definitely did not flash you for no reason, i did it to get you to stop breaking your cuffs, and you knew that, and sperged all over comms, blatantly lying, to escalate a situation way beyond what it needed to, or was ever intended to go. If you think Argus and his wacky antics are funny now, just wait, because it gets better. Before I can get a handle on the situation and have a reasonable conversation, here comes the AI, the focus of the complaint. Muh face! Muh horribly deformed face! Except no. Not really. Jesus christ. Anyway, the AI, Ingrid, and Term1 arrive at sec, and everything turns into a clusterfuck. AI asks me what the meaning of the arrest is, and I tell them, CALMLY, that I have the crew member under arrest. He is completely unharmed, im holding no weapons, im only flashing when Argus tries to break his cuffs. There are 4 people talking to me at once, one of them being a complete sperg, and im trying to explain the situation. I tell them the arrest was for assault (again, im just going off of my experience with other sec officers ive seen in the field with that, Assault for pulling me around on the elevator) i dont even get a chance to further explain that Argus was trying to interfere with sec work, or that all i wanted ULTIMATELY was to just fucking RP with the goddamn whiz, when im now attacked by the Borg. So let me explain what happened there. I was attacked by the borg, and panicked. I wasnt sure what was going on, all i knew was that I was... -Trying to get control of a situation, with a maniacal crew member. -Borg, after witnessing that the crewmember was unharmed, was not BEING harmed, was in custody by a member of sec if not an actual sec officer, and had been explained what was going on right then at that very second, decided to flash me. -Keegan, having assessed all of these factors, determined that the flash made no sense, and the only reasonable thing he could conclude was that based on all the interactions, he was under attack, and flashes the borg, then attacks in an attempt to deactivate the apparently faulty borg. Keep in mind here that i'm a CADET, im just not that experienced in Sec work, or mechanics revolving combat in general. I made the best, most sensical choices i felt i could've during that time, fearing that the borg would quickly move on to more and more lethal ways to deal with me. Either way, I am quickly harambatoned by the borg, and am now near death. The borg drags me into the sentencing room, and here i ahelp, because i'm THOROUGHLY confused as to what the fuck is going on right now. After I was healed by the Admin, I ran out of processing and was trapped in that little room to the west of processing, the one with the chairs. Waiting room? IDK. Either way, im now bolted into the room. This is the following interaction i have there. So just in case thats a lot to process, let me summarize. I walk into the next room, and with no word, no warning, no actions to justify, I am once again flashed and baton-ed. Im laying in the waiting room, hurt again. Term1 has some weird moment of ooc that i assume is some sort of taunt, which i highlighted in green. I finally get around to explaining the situation to the Admin, and at the same time the ANTAG OF THE ROUND, the only one in the room NOT being an antag, heals me. I learn that i was mistaken, and actually cannot make an arrest. The AI begins lying about the situation to the other crew, and Im going to admit that i OOCed in ICk, and realized that based on the way the AI and the Borg are acting, this must be a round with a Malf AI. The rest of my interactions in the game are based around this assumption, except guess what, the AI WASNT Malf, it was just sperging just as hard as Argus. Keegan notices that the AI is (seemingly) misconstruing the entire situation on purpose, considering that it was there when i was handling the (completely unharmed) crew, and witnessed (even possibly commanded) the borg to nearly murder me, twice. In the spoiler below, Im not too familiar with either Sec role, or Sec dept in general, and forget that the grilles are electrified. Keegan is panicked, and tries to escape. Im shocked, throwing me into my third near death state in under 5 minutes. More things are clarified between me and Admin, and AI is continuing to act very strange. So taking Catnips advice, i tried to talk the situation out. Below is that interaction. You can see that on top of being generally unnecessarily condescending, again, weird for an AI, it continues to lie to crew over comms. It never asked me why i made the arrest, it asked what i was doing, which i explained to it already. I never harmed any crew, the AI was playing off of Argus's sperging, and it knew that no one was harmed. The only fight that occurred was the one with the borg and myself, in self defence. Im locked in a room, with a medkit directly on the other side of the glass, along with a borg that could easily drag the kit in, and despite repeated mentions that im about to die, the AI continues to keep the doors bolted, and even taunts my death over the comms. One particular quote "Unit is thoroughly happy with his pain". Again, this is heavily feeding into my admitted assumption that the AI has Malfed, and almost seems to stray into chucklefuckery. The AI knows the situation, knows im dieing. Everything here points to Antag AI, and yet SPOILERS, ITS NOT. Argus returns, slaps ointment on my chest, calls it a day, and leaves the scene, along with the medkit. I stand up to grab the medkit, and finish the job. The whiz returns to help, but at that point, i'm healed up enough to where its not a problem anymore. Now, Keegan decides its time to act. He runs out behind the wizard and escapes, pulling his gun and firing on the borg, who has a history of nearly murdering me, and attempts to put it out of the situation. I fire on the borg while running through the Sec hall. Eventually, the borg and Argus retreat, and i recharge my gun. I return to the main entrance of Sec, where i find its been (along with the entirety of sec) bolted. I make my second mistake here. I set my gun to AIM, and my INTENTION was to aim at the borg, and demand it unbolts the doors. Instead, i accidentally aim at Argus, who was standing directly next to Term1, and being the sperg that Argus apparently is, he decides to IMMEDIATELY run when he sees the aim reticle on him. I try to explain in LOOC to chill the fuck out, i'm trying to RP this, and in what must be the most ironic statement of the week, Sperg McMyface-erson feels appropriate in pointing out my lack of RP. All external Sec doors, as well as the maintenance doors, are now bolted and shuttered. I make my escape from sec, and the AI responds by continuing to bolt and shutter doors throughout the halls. There is a brief interaction, and the AI, along with the Borg, go into storage in short order. LEAVING ALL DOORS IN THEIR BOLTED/SHUTTERED STATE. The AI spent this entire round lying, taunting, and generally escalating the conflict to unreasonable degrees. It was a round of wizard, and yet i legitimately felt like it was Malf the entire time. What was going to be a simple moment of RP between a cadet and a stranger on the station turned into a retarded game of cat and mouse, and ended with damage to sec, and the near murder of a cadet three times over. I think its pretty obvious here that the AI wanted to be antagonistic, and did whatever it could to push that agenda, to the point of outright lying to the entire station. All of it was unnecessary, all of it was unwarranted, and TBH, it could of been completely avoided by just "reminding me" that as cadet, i cant make arrests. Keegan: "Assault" AI: "this unit feels the need to remind you that you are not authorized to make arrests" Keegan: "oh, my apologies sir, let me remove those cuffs for you." Argus: "REEEEEEE" Keegan: "sir, i'm sorry for that, but i need you to let me speak to (the whiz) unimpeded" 5 mins tops of RP later Keegan: "alright you guys are free to go" boom, that simple.

Ill do it, but you gotta give me some of dem sekrits to put in it

I like Raymond, but I have one very small complaint. Raymond seems a bit detached from the rest of the crew. I understand hes probably busy, but a little RP with the crew from time to time, engaging them more couldn't hurt. There were a few times I've been blown off by Raymond, most recently as Kiara Fields. When i spent my round developing knockout gas as a non leathal alternative for sec, and attempted to engage Raymond over it in front of sec, i was promptly blown off, resulting in a general lack of interest in a previously interested sec team. This isnt the only instance of it, just the most recent. I kind of felt like I wasted my round. I don't want to demand attention, but a little more engagement with the crew would be my only complaint. Otherwise I like Raymond and he seems like a generally competent and likable captain.

+1 from me as well, i'm not familiar with her other characters, but Freya has always been a great character, and one of the few good sec in my opinion. I've seen smiley via freya involved in some great role play, never witnessed any power gaming, and the player herself is beneficial to the community.

dont have the Game id (sorry) but just had a similar encounter with the warden. i was trying to steal some high cap batteries from robotics for RnD, when the roboticist calls sec. after the roboticist (who i'm fairly sure was kyres but not 100%) failed to get me arrested, he tried to frame me by welding his own door shut and screeching over coms that he had evidence. then in what i can only assume was a collusion between Declan and roboticist, the robo announces over radio coms that he's now leaving robotics (eyeroll.jpg) because sec wants him and is gone for quite a while. when he comes back, he announces that he has my batteries, which i don't need anymore. when i tell him that, he asks me to come out anyway. when i don't, he breaks open the door to RnD and in waltzes the warden and the CSI, to arrest me. After a search they found a knife in my pocket, which was going to be used against me as evidence, until Cpt. Stern came along and broke up the shit fest going on in RnD, after which Declan suddenly decided that the arrest wasn't worth making and left. Not only was the warden performing stings like this, he evidently was doing it on some pretty shaky evidence if they were trying to set me up to begin with, and enlisting other members of science to perform B&E to serve a warrant that he claimed he had but didn't actually have on him at the time of the B&E.

It seems that cooking oil never made it onto the cargo list

No one is complaining over being caught in the act. No one is complaining that they were caught with actual reasonable evidence. But Ive personally seen some very dubious evidence used to make arrests. Ive seen groups of people giving eye witness testimony that someone is innocent, and that guy still gets dragged off to jail. Ive seen people harassed for the most mundane things. And im not just taking about myself, Ive seen it happen to others and heard others talk about it. If you are playing your character responsibly, good on you. But lets not sit here and pretend like its not an issue. If you are sec, play sec. Don't play a powergamer that is looking for a set group of antags. When you find someone low on blood with fang marks on their neck, dont start religiously checking the blood bank cameras, etc.

@aj[mention]ajstorey456[/mention] I love how you condensed everything i said to one instance involving you as sec powergaming Fucking kek ITT:legitimate concerns being brought up, followed by sec powergamers brigade chanting "git gud scwub"