BurgerBB

KIND OF LATE NOW

A lot of those require context of the attitude of the thread. It's best to read the context of those posts in the meantime. Regardless, I am unsure if this is allowed to be made public or not, but Skull took serious note of my behavior and said that they would most likely do a trial run where I'm on the jedi council but I'm not the rank of master I will be granted "Trial Developer" for a period of 3 months to see how well I work with others. That might've changed, I'm not sure as Skull is dealing with some unrelated issues and still likely waiting for feedback. I'm speaking as a living, breathing, human being when I say all those things. My absolute #1 pet peeve as a contributor is people forgetting that I'm doing all this work for volunteer. It gets absolutely irritating when people act like that I'm supposed to obey people when they suggest changes that I do not agree with, especially when they're suggesting it maliciously. I'm not ashamed to admit that everything I make benifits me, however that doesn't mean I'm not willing to do things that may not affect me, such as a science rework or fun antag stuff like chainsaws. Those issues won't pop up when working in a team because I'm sure everyone is on the same page. As far as I know, developers here don't get paid and will only do things that they feel like doing, which is incredibly fine and normal. The head developers aren't dicks, so I doubt that they would be demanding me to work on implementing 6 million different floor length braid hairstyles. However, if people see how I express annoyance an issue, that's fine by me. I will continue to contribute to aurorastation no matter what my current rank is. Unless it's permabanned, in that case I will make a PR that rebases to vorestation.

I'm confused as hell with your post because it's like an entirely different person talking. I've been saying this entire time that if you believe that you think a feature is added, make it yourself. I'm not going to code something that I have 0 motivation to code for. That's how it works when I'm not getting paid to do any of this. I think a lot of people here are forgetting this.

I'm genuinely considered it and I don't think it's worth implementing. Adding puzzles to dungeons is too much work. Needing multiple people to get into a dungeon is arbitrary and punishes antags, however if you wish to make a puzzle based dungeon, you can make a PR and submit your own design when this PR is approved. Keep in mind that science can make anything that mining has so it's impossible for them to rely on each other, such as explosives. It would punish miners to make them rely on science, however reward science too much when they can self-supply themselves. I rather have players make their own roleplay with other people rather than be forced to work together. It's bad game design to force teamwork in a game such as this. How ruins are found and are interacted with will remain as is. It doesn't matter how right you think you are, or how many people continue to post in this thread saying that it's an issue. I've spoke with plenty of people with this idea. Those who think science should be involved more in this to the point where it cripples miners is a vocal minority.

Okay so the beauty of being a contributor is that I get to code whatever the heck I want unless the developers find that the code I produce is unsatisfactory. I don't have to code more support for science unless I believe that science needs more tools to get involved, and they currently don't because I think this is satisfactory. Currently, I believe that science and mining are on level playing field when it comes to encountering ruins, and mining and science does not need more ways to find these ruins. Ruins are supposed to be a treat, and not something you should find every round. That's my philosophy on the matter. I'm not going to make it so that science has easier ways to find ruins unless someone gives a really good idea, and so far 0 ideas were given; just the cries of "include science" which doesn't help me at all because that only tells me that people believe that science is included, and doesn't give me any solid ideas to fix that problem. Most of the posts in this thread is just complaining about a problem that I know exists. No one is giving ideas. No one is giving suggestions to fix it. It's just an endless sea of complaining about the same problem over and over again and me not having any ideas on how to fix it. I have repeated this stance over and over again: Science will not get additional tools to detect ruins as it is too handholdy and not the intent of ruins. A message from central command to the heads of staff should be enough to track it. However, I will make it so that xenoarchaeology can detect the location of artifacts that were already unearthed. it doesn't make sense that it wouldn't be able to detect them when they're out of the dirt.

The issue here Burger isn't that Science should do it themselves, it's that you're trying to solely include Mining and no other department. Stop. That is the problem. Include both Mining and Xenoarcheology. Give Xenoarcheology tools to find the ruins, give Mining tools to survive clearing them. They can work as a team in this regard. Xenoarcheology doesn't have gear progression like Mining does, unless they want to walk into R&D and print loads of stuff, they can't do it alone. And that could be construed as powergaming. To argue that Mining should do it alone is worse than arguing Science should do it alone. This could be a group effort on the part of Asteroid roles (Xenoarcheology, Anomalists, Miners) >someone accuses me of trying to solely include mining >introduced artifacts to ruins >xenoarchs have a device to track artifacts, and therefore a way to track ruins >mining has 0 way to track artifacts, and therefore 0 ways to track ruins I'm pretty much done arguing this point, honestly. I've explained several times that xenoarch can track these ruins. There will be 0 additional ways for people to track these ruins other than the planned central command console update. If you're a science player and you feel left in the dark because of this, then tough titties. This was always meant to be for miners. Miners can choose to let science in on the fun, as it currently is with xeno artifacts. 99% of the time they will and anyone who states otherwise honestly has a childish and destructive mindset. This isn't a science addition, it's a mining addition. Anyone who says that this PR should be rejected on the basis that miners get more fun than science should promptly reevaluate their argument and realise that not everything has to include science. When this PR is merged, and you feel like there should be more added to it, I thoroughly encourage you to submit your own code and PR that introduces more ways for science to get involved. Unless someone actually gives a good idea that I agree with, the only planned feature is that central command will notify heads of staff of the existence of a possible crashed ship/ruin/whatever and now every department is involved if the heads of staff choose to get involved.

If a miner acts like an idiot then they act like an idiot. there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop a miner from being a fool mechanically unless you implement ridiculous "fixes" like mysteriously unreadable pill bottles on CM. It is 100% and completely acceptable OOC for a miner to go into a ruin and go rambo as long as it makes sense for that character to do so. It's called roleplay, we're not goonstation. I've repeated this several times to several people who brought up the same depressing point; which is something along the likes of "Miners are selfish/dumb this is bad for those poor poor miners, science is smart make them involved instead :(" And I'll keep repeating the point: "Do it yourself, Science." If you want to go find ancient ruins, crashed ships, or other things? Go Xenoarch. Get yourself an upgraded kinetic accelerator. Go find them with a small team if you want. There is nothing stopping you from finding this ruins before the miners do. I'm just going to start ignoring bad posts that paint miners in a negative light. Honestly I prefer posts that just saying "-1 retard addon" because it's faster to read and doesn't contain a very depressing viewpoint of our community.

"And grounding these 'Dungeons' into the Lore further actively ruins the theme of xenoarcheology" Specifically here, and he's right. not every single pixel on the station needs a lore backstory. Dungeons having obvious lore or backstory just ruins the fun of them, I rather have player make up their own story about things that happened instead of spoon feeding pointless lore.

I'm thinking of a possible Carp Sensor that detects the location of nearby carp. Central Command will also send a central command status report to one of the consoles at the 30 minute mark detailing possible areas. The background music is a pretty good idea, however I need to find appropriate music and make a new system that places the background music near the surrounding area, as most dungeons use the 32x32 space provided.

The system is modular so if people have an issue with the current set of dungeons or spawns, they can make their own.

That one design was one of the worst ones. I might scrap it all together, but earlier today I added skulls around all the entrances of the circle.

Yes, definitely. There are a few dungeons that spawn with phoron and other materials that would be useful for either science or cargo, some even have guaranteed mineral deposits. As mentioned before, all the major ones spawn with guaranteed artifacts for science. Though it seems that the meme that monsters are outside dungeons has gotten a hold of you. All monsters are located inside the dungeon, and can never be encountered unless you intentionally encounter them, or get unlucky and fall inside a hole leading to a dungeon.

Then perhaps when the pr gets merged (it will) you can modify it to your liking

I don't know what you're implying, then. People don't need your consent to express an opinion. I've said: "There is a problem that exists with people giving feedback." What you've got from that statement: "People who should give bad feedback should be punished!" Never have I asked for anyone to be banned. Never have I asked for anyone to be lynched. Never have I asked for any sort of punishment in this thread. Yet apparently here you are.

nanotrasen doesn't give two shits about a bunch of lost construction workers who strayed too far from the construction site

That is not what I'm suggesting at all.

New changes: - Each unique area will contain a random artifact. This means that xenoarchaeology can find a ruin easier. - Many of the areas are difficult to actually get into accidentally. There will be openspace and a wall around the areas where you're not intended to get in. This decreases the chance that someone will accidentally stumble upon a carp. Each area is 32 tiles per 32 tiles, however they can be smaller. Just as a reminder, they're not really "dungeons" as much as just areas. https://i.imgur.com/zUT4IAL.png https://i.imgur.com/hpdWNhB.png https://i.imgur.com/3bLGmkB.png

The problem will be countered by the fact that new players won't know where the dungeons are, and if they rush for them, they will likely and very easily die given how 90% of the spawns themselves will just be carp nests that will require more than a level 2 custom kinetic accelerator. It's about as futile as rushing the Spare ID as an assistant with nothing but a toolbox, your grey suit, and budget insulated gloves. You will die get jailed. The dungeons themselves will be far away from the mining area. They'll be mostly north-east of the map on the main level, and scattered across on the lower and upper levels.

Alrighty then. [mention]HunterRS[/mention] You're dismissing a PR that will make mining interesting on the basis that you, personally and self-anecdotally, believe that miners are shallow creatures that will not report the location of ruins while also giving me a lecture on how I'm being a terrible person for claiming that science players are selfish spoiled brats. I will repeat this: you're giving me a lecture for being a dick to science players because I called them selfish brats, all while directly saying "-1 unless we can propose a way to keep miners out of it" in a PR designed to make mining more interesting. Is a player being shitty and refusing to play realisticly? Ahelp them. Submit an incident report. Submit a player complaint. [mention]Kaed[/mention] If a miner follows a trail of human remains and encounters a big scary monster at the end of the remains, ends up dying, I'm going to laugh hysterically at them and anyone else who think it's my fault for not being obvious enough. I don't know how to drive that point home. It's like saying that holes should be removed because new players wouldn't know that going down them would kill them. [mention]Ornias[/mention] Straight up if anyone says a feature shouldn't be added because it means someone else will have fun then I'm going to audibly roll my eyes while at the same time develop crippling depression. From an oocly standpoint, players are not obligated to include them on the fun when they discover something cool in a dungeon, They, if realistic icly, can keep a discovery all for themselves and perhaps develop roleplay around that. I would straight up agree with people if this hindered science, but it doesn't. The reasonings people are putting forward is "This shouldn't be added because others will have fun and I won't be on in their fun." and it's quite frankly offensive.

It's up to players if they want to engage the rest of the station in what they find, but 'I found some random shit and fish in this cavern' is significantly less likely to engage anyone but medical than finding an ancient temple full of shit people can poke at. Then it's not an activity they do on the side like all the other things you mentioned, it's just something that happens to them. Randomly. And if they're unfamiliar with your 'warning signs', they just die. Whee? This is a very inconsistent argument, burger. are you saying that if the miners encounter literal human remains on the mine they will get confused and walk towards the more frequent occurrences of human remains because that's what you're saying right now

Miners never hoard anomalies, I don't understand why you think this. Never while playing Marwani have I encountered a miner who hoarded an anomaly for themselves. It always goes to science. I'm honestly noticing a theme in this thread, and it's basically "miners are literally hitler." Regardless, I'm going to straight up say it. Mining is under no obligation to report anomalies or ruins to scientists. Scientists are spoiled brats as it is, mining provides them with materials while science provides them with absolutely fucking nothing 99% of the time. I've mained quartermaster for several months, and I think out of the like 80 rounds I played, miners only received a mining drill or a plasma cutter about twice while science would constantly cry over common about materials like a spoiled child whose mother told them they can't go to mcdonalds every day.

Every single one of those things except the last one are stuff you should not actually be doing during a typical shift and I would actively discourage the playerbase from doing, because they're nothing but shitty memes and pointless busywork for no other reason than self gratification. And that last one is just your coloured viewpoint on interdepartmental roles. Adding 'wandering around on the asteroid looking for random loot' to miners behaviour options is not helpful and I don't know why you think it is a necessary addition. Because that's not the addition. If you think the addition is simply "miners can now search for dungeons" then you're 2 + 2 = 3 wrong. I will repeat this: A miner who doesn't mine, and instead seeks out ruins, is a flippin fool because they will perish. They're going to need help from science in order to find/clear these ruins. I specifically designed the system to spawn a shitload of carp nests so that early game miners won't explore the area. I specifically designed the areas themselves to have a LOT of red flags so miners won't enter them.

There is a huge difference between being offended and disagreeing with someone. I don't know if there was miscommunication involved, or any communication between you and the moderator I talked to, but this is definitely not the case. I'm completely fine with feedback or complaints, however feedback that contributes nothing to the thread or is completely and utterly useless to me is completely unwelcome especially if it's done by the same people over and over again with their stale, boring, negative attitude. I was under the impression that several staff members knew about these repeat offenders due to the numerous conversations I've had with staff members regarding this issue, privately and publicly, but given this synopsis on the situation it seems like the staff have differing opinions on the matter. And I think that's the problem here. Shitty feedback isn't against the rules when it should. Feedback should actually be constructive instead of just the same few people whining constantly. I bet you money that the people I'm referring to have most of their posts done in the suggestion's forums and nowhere else, when that's honestly a problem. People are aware that this is a huge problem, everyone I've talked to about this issue, including staff, say that I should stop making feedback threads because you never actually get good feedback. I think that's a serious problem especially when the more large scale ideas I have require feedback threads. I'm going to be brutally honest and say that I would be coding for aurorastation a lot more if feedback threads were actually constructive.

Shaft mining is the most shafted job on the station. Their entire job is to provide materials and items to shitty science mains to have fun with, and funds for shitty sec mains to unga bunga shoot badguys with. It's depressing that people are suggesting that shafter miner's are supposed to be science's bitch and any sort of fun that miners have, regardless if it prevents them from not mining or not, deviates from that path. Virtually every other job on the station has some fun thing you can do that isn't it's core job. Botany: Grow and sell drugs. Chef: Make a shitload of truffles Science: Perform inhumane experiments on crew. Security: Brawl with cadets, validhunt antags. Chemistry: Make crazy drugs. Mining: MINE FOR ME SLAVE With the custom kinetic accelerator update, science and mining will now have a mutual relationship. If science wants materials, they're going to have to provide for miners. If miners want equipment to explore these dungeons, they're going to have to provide science with materials. To suggest that miners won't do their job and go explore "dungeons" is a meme because they will not survive. Also, the more hostile dungeons are designed to be noticeable upon an onlooker. For example, many of the nests have human remains around them and is an obvious red flag for a miner to fuck off to another direction. The only time a miner would be fucked by a dungeon is if they fall from a z-level into a nest of space carp.

An example of some areas I quickly made. https://imgur.com/a/KwqRhvI Note that this system is very modular; anyone can submit a map and have it loaded as a dungeon. Hopefully such small additions will inspire people to learn how to map.