jackfractal

Hmmmm.... Name: Cockpit Tech Required: Biological 3 Requires: None Tools: None Additional Functionality: Allows a regular crewmember to enter the robot and drive it around. Provides a small air-tank and isolated atmosphere. Does not cost a module slot. Cannot be installed in robots with brains. Does not grant all access. Name: Bipedal Locomotion Adaptation Tech Required: Engineering 4 Requires: Cockpit Tools: None Additional Functionality: Allows the driver to access their hands and their backpack from inside the robot suit. Hmmmmmmm! Name: Drone Remote Tech Required: Data 4, Bluespace 2 Requires: None Tools: None Additional Functionality: Allows the user of a drone control computer to control the robot remotely. Cannot be installed in robots with brains.

Except that, for most rounds, it's an all access path that can teleport you to itself and that's pretty much it. Also it's one-way unless you have a buddy (or can convince the AI to bring you back) and it is bloody hard to get telecrystals. The teleportation situation in SS13 is pretty silly. The teleporter and the teleport pad have absolutely no crossover in terms of how they work or what they do. It's one of those things that needs a rethink.

Poooot eeeeet oooon Giiiiiiit!

Ahh... OK. That makes sense. Approved.

Hey Senpai! One thing about machines/shells/IPC's, they're not necessarily more ruthless or emotionless then their organic counterparts, it all depends on how they were programmed. Aside from that, you'll all good. Assuming nobody has any other problems with this application, I'll approve it later tonight.

The reason I brought up the whole 'emags create matter' thing is that historically, they have. The laser gun that the security cyborgs get is created whole cloth. The laser sword that the Standard cyborgs get is likewise. The rubber stamp that the clerical cyborgs get, ditto (that one is my personal favorite). It might be interesting if individual modules had emag effects, but I'm not sure which ones it would apply too. Do you have any suggestions? Regarding the whole 'robots aren't trusted' thing. That hasn't been my experience, but then again I play a ridiculous character, so maybe I just don't notice it. Here are my reasons for why this isn't an issue: we have a concrete and long extant example, in-game, of robots with lethal weapons (the drone event enemies) there is no compelling in-fiction reason why it should be impossible to install weaponry on a robot given the level of technology available on SS13 robots hacked by the syndicate have always had lethal weaponry (except those adorable clerical cyborgs I mentioned before) robots are already issued lethal weapons as a matter of course (IPC security guards during crisis situations) So, I don't think the possibility of adding weaponry to a robot during a round is that big a deal from an immersion standpoint.

@LordFowl So! I had a good think about this, very good comments, made me evaluate some stuff. First, the question of the weaponry modules. While you're right that in a lot of science fiction universes that tell stories about robots, robots are not given lethal weaponry. Usually, in such cases, there's the three laws of robotics thing, or something similar. There are a lot of universes where they are given guns though. Star Wars and Star Trek for example. Ghost in the Shell, Terminator, Robocop, The Matrix, and Mass Effect as well. Though in most of those examples, robots having guns goes rather poorly for everyone involved. In our case, in the Aurora canon (both the one that I wrote and the one that it replaced), cyborgs have existed for hundreds of years. People have not only grown used to them, they've grown bored with them. AI is more recent, and for some (notably the Skrell) more worrying, but even there, we have in-game examples of robots with lethal weapons, those pesky laser wielding drones that keep escaping and menacing the hard-working crew of the Aurora. So I think robots and cyborgs should be able to have lethal weapons mounted on them. If you look though, neither the Weapon Mount or the Energy Projector are available from round-start. They need Research, which means they'll need to be installed during the round. That takes me to your second concern, hacking. I'm kind of opposed to the idea of emags creating matter. It doesn't make much sense, so my tentative plan for emags if for them to not provide robots with additional tools, or for it to alter existing tools in any significant way. A hacked robot in that case is still useful, but it's not necessarily useful for killing. Remember, even a hacked bartender still gives you universal access, status alert's, and the ability to lock down rooms. If you want them to be useful for killing, then I'm going to put a few violence-based modules for purchase in the traitor uplinks. Probably an energy sword, a laser, and maybe some other things (if you have any ideas, please post 'em) and they'll be relatively cheap, as you need to hack and modify a robot to be able to use them. Robots built for nefarious deeds will be another matter entirely. If you have access to a subverted robot, a mech lab, and a little imagination, you can make some veeeery nasty robots indeed if you put your mind too it.

Part of the issue with secret extended is that, because it's secret and there might be antags, people don't get up to the kind of shenanigans that people get up to on voted extended rounds. You're not going to start some kind of large project, or plan some kind of major social event, in a round where there may be Nuke Ops knocking on your door. I know the idea with Secret is that you do start all your long term extended style plans and then Suddenly Antags and it's all surprising and you get really invested and stuff. I know that's what is supposed to happen, but it doesn't. What happens is that nothing happens. Everyone just stands around as people brace for an impact that never comes. Maybe that makes everyone a 'bad roleplayer' or whatever, but it's how I always see it play out.

I like this plan. I've always thought that a lot of votes boil down to 'extended' vs 'antag' rather than one round-type over another. If extended gets any traction, the other votes tend to pile into the antag round-type that has the largest amount of votes.

I will have to investigate those. They look like fun....

I think that is from the derelict evacuation round. If I remember correctly, almost everyone died that round, and all in the same area.

Well one is from space.

Hmm... it might be worth thinking about a quick method for doing timeskips. It'd be hard to code something to dirty-up the station in a realistic way, but there are some things that are important, that would be just a pain to do manually. Off the top of my head: randomly break lightbulbs assign random amounts of small damage to all crew-members from bumps and bruises randomize hunger That last one is the big one. In the Nations round yesterday, there were no botanists for a while, and cargo was pretending that they couldn't get food either (they could, but they were pretending they couldn't). On Aurora, we have our hunger mechanics tuned down so low that nobody really needs to eat during a regular shift, but if you're trying to simulate a situation of scarcity then getting enough food for everyone is something that would be really important. Another option if you want to make things harder is to blow the large toxins tank, the main one in atmospherics. Have it hit by a meteor or something early on. Normally, that tank never gets touched (unless you're griefing), but in a 'long round' it would make it a challenge to keep the singularity tanks filled.

Ahhh. Yeah, that makes sense. It might be interesting to see player numbers co-related to number of players.

Jeeze! Poor Security officers. All getting killed. And Assistants? That one surprises me. I do think it's pretty appropriate that most deaths occur in medbay. The autotraitor numbers really surprise me. I really haven't played many of those.

@Dreamix. Eeeeh. I'm not too worried. The first link is... well it's done. I mean, I haven't made a pull request with it yet because I honestly haven't seen MALF being played much recently and I kinda forgot about it. Sorry. I know it was your idea. I'll run it by Scopes today. The second link is a list of possible ideas, not firm project designs. I was trying to gauge interest to see what I should work on next, and nobody seemed particularly interested in anything on that list (except you, and you expressed no particular preference), so I stuck all those things on the back-burner. I might get back to them. I might not. @Xelnagahunter I've been on vacation, and I'm going back to work tomorrow () so I wanted to use some of my free time this week to actually write this idea down. Like I said, I've actually written similar ideas for redesigning robots about three other times, but I never posted them anywhere because I always ended up deciding that the end product would be too complicated. This one isn't that complicated. I'm not going to argue that it wont be time consuming, but the end product isn't any more elaborate then what we have now. Regarding the sprites: This is going to be a challenge. I think at first we might see a significantly reduced set of sprites, but with the ability to change their colors. I have to do some testing, but I think it's possible to separate sprites into chunks, and then apply a ramp to each chunk, so each sprite might have a primary, secondary, and tertiary color ramp, which would be determined by your paint. It would be possible to do this to the custom sprites as well, if I'm right in how I think this will work. It would just mean desaturating them and then going in and doing masks for the different sections. One thing to remember is that there is a subtle conceptual shift here from how cyborgs have worked before. There wouldn't be 'medibots' or 'mineborgs' anymore. Not as strict categories. There would just be 'robots' with a variety of different tools. For example, you might have a first-response robot who specializes in getting people out of dangerous areas. They'd have a breach kit (to prevent depressurization), a vtec module (so they can move fast), and a cryo container (so they can rescue people). That's sort of a medical robot, but it has no tools to treat injuries. All it does is rescue people. What department does it go in? It has some engineering style tools, is it an engineering robot? Or how about a more advanced robot, one with four hardpoints, designed to explore space. It might have a jetpack (so it can fly), a weapon mount (so it can defend itself), a crate holder (so it can retrieve interesting things it finds) and a bluespace slingshot (so it can be recovered in the case of accident). Which department does it fit in? See? While I designed the list of modules to allow for people to easily replicate their experience of playing with one of the old modules, you can also make some rather esoteric robots that don't easily fit into existing categories.

There don't appear to be. First twenty pages of google are all Elderscrolls. I assumed you knew and were doing it as a gag, what with tajaran originally being just straight up khajiit.

They're from the elderscrolls, right?

I think the only way that 'Nations-like' stuff happens is if the idea is that this is a permanent state of affairs starts to sink in. The round today was kind of surreal as it was clear from the beginning that NT was going to reclaim the station. I think it really stifled a lot of potential interesting stuff. I like the idea of the time-skips but it's hard to make it work without direct admin assistance, same with the disabled spawn. It looks fun, but it needs a lot of manual work from the admins.

Hokay! All the modules are up. That took longer than expected...

That might just be an option on the layer of space the derelict is on. It'd be fiddly to track down, but it it's probably easy to fix.

I haven't really figured out how to do the visuals yet. I might have a way where your modules would affect your colours, but there's no easy way to colour-ramp things in byond, so making it work could be a little tricky. I hear what you're saying though. You're going to be able to identify modules by Examine, and I'm really going to try to make their sprites at least indicate their department. Or, at least, they should indicate their department, I think I'll make them re-paintable using the IPC spraycans (assuming I can get the icon stuff to work, it might be too fiddly).

There will be a few minor changes to basic cyborgs. They are: Rather than having lights as tools (like flashlights), cyborgs will all have ‘headlamps’ which will have their own button on the UI and will count as a robotic component (meaning they can be damaged or disabled). The robotics console will be upgraded to display health, location, and installed modules All robots will have a ‘clamp’ object, which is what lets them drag things. This clamp will open and close containers, as well as unpowered doors All robots will be equipped with a fire extinguisher Robots will be able to lock, unlock, open, and close their own internal compartments Robots will be significantly slowed on the asteroid. They are not designed for rough terrain. The following is a list of possible modules. The design of these is extremely flexible. Feel free to propose modifications, or additions. This isn’t particularly well sorted right now, but assue that if there is no Tech Level listed then the module is available at round-start as one of the cyborgs three free modules. Enormous list of Modules: Available at the start of the round Name: Standard Toolkit Requires: None Tools: screwdriver, wrench, crowbar, standard welder, wirecutters, multi-tool, glass storage, metal storage, engineering tape Additional Functionality: This kit gives access to the engineering radio channel. Name: Construction Toolkit Requires: Standard Toolkit Tools: magnetic gripper, cable storage, floor panel storage, rod storage, reinforced glass storage Additional Functionality: This kit gives access to mason vision (as a UI clickable) Name: Advanced Construction Toolkit Requires: Construction Toolkit Tools: plasteel storage, rapid construction device Additional Functionality: None Name: Breech Kit Requires: None Tools: metal foam spray, plastic walls, plastic doors Additional Functionality: None Name: Internal Storage Expansion Requires: Any module that contains some kind of storage Tools: None Additional Functionality: Increases the amount of stored material. Note: May be installed more than once. Name: V-Tech Module Requires: None Tools: None Additional Functionality: Increases speed Note: May be installed more than once Name: Crime Prevention Kit Requires: None Tools: security tpe, evidence bags, evidence storage (can hold objects in evidence bags) Additional Functionality: This module provides security hud overlays and provides access to the security radio channel. Name: Prisoner Processing Unit Requires: Crime Prevention Kit Tech Level: Engineering 4, Materials 2 Tools: criminal processing apparatus (this rapidly strips a handcuffed person of their equipment and gives them an orange jumpsuit, it bags their equipment in evidence bags, labels it, and puts it in a cardboard box) Additional Functionality: None Name: Detainment Kit Requires: None Tools: standard stun baton, standard taser, zipties Additional Functionality: This module provides remote access to security records. Name: Advanced Detainment Kit Requires: Detainment Kit Tools: recharging taser (recharges off internal battery), recharging stun baton, reinforced zipties (break like zipties, but last as long as regular handcuffs) Additional Functionality: None Name: Weapon Mount Tech Level: Combat 3, Materials 3, Engineering 3 Requires: None Tools: weapon mount (a gripper that can hold and use guns) Additional Functionality: None Name: Energy Emitter Tech Level: Combat 4, Materials 3, Engineering 3, Power Storage 3 Requires: None Tools: energy gun Additional Functionality: None Name: Heavy Armor Requires: None Tools: None Additional Functionality: Significantly increases the amount of damage that the Armor component can take before breaking. Name: Faraday Cage Tech Level: Materials 4, Engineering 4, Power Storage 5 Requires: None Tools: None Additional Functionality: Provides immunity to EMP Name: Rapid Light Compensation Circuit Requires: None Tools: None Additional Functionality: Provides immunity to Flash weapons Name: Maneuvering Thrusters Tech Level: Engineering 3, Materials 2 Requires: None Tools: gas siphon (click on a tank to transfer gas to an internal gas tank) Additional Functionality: provides jetpack-like space maneuvreing Name: Basic Hygiene Kit Requires: None Tools: soap, trash bag, light replacer Additional Functionality: None Name: Advanced Cleaning Kit Requires: Basic Hygiene Kit Tools: sign emitter, tank syphon (click on a water tank to fill internal reservoir) Additional Functionality: provides a clickable option to clean as you walk, cleaned surfaces are made wet Name: Spray Nozzle Requires: None Tools: spray nozzle (allows you to spray from an internal reservoir), tank syphon (click on a water tank to fill internal reservoir) Additional Functionality: The spray nozzle can spray fluids from other reservoirs if the cyborg has some, such as from the Chemical Manipulation module. Name: First Aid Kit Requires: None Tools: splints, ointment, bruise pack, health analyser, roller-bed rack, 3 x syringe, medical gripper (can hold blood packs, chemical bottles, pill bottles, and pills) Additional Functionality: This module provides access to the medical radio channel and the health HUD vision overlay. Name: Surgical Kit Requires: None Tools: cautery, surgical drill, fix-o-vein, hemostat, scalpel, bone-gel, retractor, bone setter, circular saw, surgical gripper (can hold bodyparts) Additional Functionality: None Name: Advanced Trauma Kit Requires: First Aid Kit Tools: advanced burn pack, advanced bruise pack, topical antitoxin, spaceacillon incubator Additional Functionality: Replaces ointment and bruise pack Name: Chemical Manipulation Module Tech Level: Materials 3, Engineering 3 Requires: None Tools: chemistry gripper (can hold beakers and other containers), internal chemical storage (can hold various chemicals, can distribute them to connected items like the syringe, held beakers, or the Spray Nozzle, chemicals do not react internally) Additional Functionality: None Name: Portable Cryo Preservation Chamber Tech Level: Materials 3, Biology 3, Power storage 3, Engineering 3 Requires: First Aid Kit Tools: portable cryo container (click to pick up a prone or willing person and store them inside you in suspension like a cryobag) Additional Functionality: None Name: Portable Sleeper Tech Level: Materials 4, Biology 4, Power storage 4, Engineering 4 Requires: First Aid Kit Tools: portable sleeper (click to pick up a prone or willing person and store them inside you as though you were a sleeper) Additional Functionality: None Name: Advanced Sport Multifunction Tool Arm Tech Level: Materials 3, Engineering 3 Requires: None Tools: advanced sport multifunction tool arm (allows you to hold, dribble, and throw a basketball) Additional Functionality: None Name: Synthetics Assembly Toolkit Requires: None Tools: robotics gripper (can hold robotics and mech parts), material feeder (can hold individual material sheets, mainly useful for feeding the fabricators), magnetic gripper Additional Functionality: None Name: Research and Development Toolkit Requires: None Tools: science gripper (can hold any object with a tech origin, HOWEVER you cannot use these items on anything other than the destructive analyzer), material feeder (can hold individual material sheets, mainly useful for feeding the fabricators), rapid part replacer, screwdriver Additional Functionality: None Name: Clerical Development Kit Requires: None Tools: pen, paperwork gripper (can hold paperwork), form printer, document sorter (acts like a folder) Additional Functionality: None Name: Alcohol Dispenser Kit Requires: None Tools: bar gripper (holds glasses, bottles of booze, and drink making supplies), lighter, drinks tray Additional Functionality: This module provides access to the drinks dispensers. Name: Food Preparation Kit Requires: None Tools: food gripper (holds food), knife, food tray Additional Functionality: None Name: Secondary Linguistics Circuit Requires: None Tools: None Additional Functionality: Allows the cyborg to speak all languages (that’s speak, all cyborgs will retain their universal comprehension) Name: Rock Crushing Kit Requires: None Tools: ore feeder (works like an ore satchel, but deposits ore into an internal compartment (or ore crate if the cyborg has a Crate Holder)), mining tool mount (allows you to hold and use a mining tool) Additional Functionality: This module provides access to the supply radio channel and mason vision overlay. Name: Wide Treads Requires: None Tools: None Additional Functionality: Allows the robot to travel at full speed on uneven terrain. Name: Crate Holder Requires: None Tools: crate loader Additional Functionality: This module allows the robot to hold a crate inside itself. Name: Compressed Gas Task Requires: None Tools: gas syphon (click on tanks to syphon gas into the internal gas tank, also works like a powered air-can for pumping air in and out from the atmosphere) Additional Functionality: This provides a medium sized internal gas tank. The robot can clamp onto output atmos vents to fill as well as syphon gas using the syphon. Name: PACMan Generator Requires: None Tools: plasma fuel intake (can click on either refined plasma or plasma ore to fill plasma storage, using refined plasma is much more efficient) Additional Functionality: When activated, burns plasma like a PACMAN generator to recharge the cyborg’s power cell. It is not terribly efficient. Name: S.U.P.E.R.P.A.C.M.A.N Generator Tech Level: Programing 3, Power Storage 4, Engineering 4, Materials 4 Requires: None Tools: uranium fuel intake (can click on either uranium plasma or uranium ore to fill uranium storage, using uranium plasma is much more efficient) Additional Functionality: When activated, burns uranium like a S.U.P.E.R.P.A.C.M.A.N generator to recharge the cyborg’s power cell. It is not moderately efficient. Name: M.S.P.A.C.M.A.N. Generator Tech Level: Programing 3, Power Storage 5, Engineering 5, Materials 4 Requires: None Tools: diamond fuel intake (can click on either diamonds or diamond ore to fill diamond storage, using refined diamonds is much more efficient) Additional Functionality: When activated, burns diamond like a M.S.P.A.C.M.A.N. generator to recharge the cyborg’s power cell. It is extremely efficient. Name: Backup Power Supply Requires: None Tools: None Additional Functionality: Lets you have two power cells. Name: Tesla Capacitors Tech Level: Power Storage 5, Engineering 5, Materials 4 Requires: None Tools: None Additional Functionality: Allows you recharge your cell from an APC Name: Prototype Bluespace Slingshot Tech Level: Power Storage 3, Engineering 3, Bluespace 3 Requires: None Tools: Imperfect bluespace slingshot (click to return to the bluespace anchor for the cost of 2000 power) Additional Functionality: When created, this module comes with a Bluespace Anchor object (small, light). When the Bluespace slingshot is used, the cyborg is teleported back to the anchor, at which point both the anchor and the module break. Name: Bluespace Slingshot Tech Level: Power Storage 5, Engineering 5, Bluespace 4 Requires: None Tools: Bluespace slingshot (click to return to the bluespace anchor for the cost of 2000 power) Additional Functionality: When created, this module comes with a Bluespace Anchor object (small, light). When the Bluespace slingshot is used, the cyborg is teleported back to the anchor. Name: Bluespace Manipulator Tech Level: Power Storage 6, Engineering 6, Bluespace 6 Requires: Bluespace Slingshot Tools: None Additional Functionality: This module modifies the bluespace slingshot to be able to target any teleport beacon as well as their own anchor.

OK! So last week I went and popped open a bunch of suggestions about various things that I’d noticed while playing as a cyborg. I realized after I’d done that, that I was probably taking the wrong approach. I’ve written about four design rewrites for cyborgs. Most of them are elaborate and complex. I like elaborate and complex, but I also like finished. This one I’ve come up with recently is the least complicated, and probably the easiest to implement. It doesn’t require a whole lot of UI work. It should be fairly balanced, and it is the least intrusive. Cyborgs after this redesign will be familiar, but different. What’s is the big picture? The archetypal modules are replaced with hardpoints and module kits Each cyborg has several hardpoints. Round-start cyborgs get three, and they can have more attached to them by robotics after science has done some research into materials and engineering. You install module kits in hardpoints. Module kits are what give robots their tools and abilities. Module kits can be built in robotics and easily swapped out. What does this do to the existing cyborg gameplay? At a base level, not a lot. The cyborgs themselves wouldn’t be touched much. They will still have their existing strengths and weaknesses. For round-start cyborgs, you’ll be able to pick from a list of module kits at round-start to customize your loadout. Your abilities at round-start will be similar to the ones you have now. What does this mean for robotics? Module reset boards would go away, and refitting a cyborg would be a more complicated task. You will have to open the robot up, pop out their existing modules, and plug in their new ones. It shouldn’t take that long, but it will be more involved. The existing robotic upgrades also go away, or are transformed into Kits. Adding extra hardpoints will be more involved still. To install new hardpoints you’ll have to completely disassemble the robot (remove it’s brain) and rebuild it with a new chassis. This will take some time, but will probably make your robotic buddies very happy. You’ll also have more opportunities for nefarious deeds if you’re an antag. If you’re thinking ‘customized assassin robot’, you’re on the right track. It may end up being possible to order very dangerous module kits using traitor up-links. Do you have an overriding design goal for this version of cyborgs? Yes. My design goals are: Cyborgs should be fun to play. Cyborgs should not ruin other people’s fun. They should be fun to play against. Cyborgs trade moment to moment versatility, and freedom of action, for the ability to be highly effective at the tasks they were designed to do. It should be possible to design a robot that is good at a given job (with the exception of Command). It should not be possible to design a robot that is good at every job. Why do this? What’s the point? The existing robotics modules are a mixed bag. Some are very strong. Some are very weak. Some are just confusing. As they’re directly associated with different departments and different tasks, its hard to talk about them individually, as they’re always compared to all the rest, and their capabilities are always attached to that of their department. Should the security cyborg have a crowbar? I’ve seen this spawn dozen-page-long arguments. By making them modular, the kits can be assessed independently, and their balance compared holistically to how it affects all cyborgs. This should make it easier to add new abilities, and make balancing less politically fraught. But I wouldn’t do this just to eliminate the forum arguments. I’m interested in this because it would also give people the opportunity to mix and match their capabilities, and provide a more unique play experience for their cyborg. That's something that I'm really looking forward too It also gives R&D and robotics more toys to play with. That’s never a bad thing.

Hokay! Accepted!