Frances

My thoughts...? I didn't really have a good impression of Nanotoxin at first. He made a thread a few months ago where I thought he kinda looked like a tool (the one about rogue nuke ops where it kinda seemed like he ditched his operatives for kicks), then there was obscure relationship drama pretty much everyone knows about. /However/, since then, he's acted... fairly decent? I mean, I don't know if he'd make a good mod or not. Perhaps he's killing babies in his free time and everyone on staff knows about that and that's why they're reluctant to give him a shot. But if there's nothing like that, like... give him a trial? I know there's a few people I've harshly judged on first contact who ended up being very mature and valuable additions to the community months later (heck, I jobbanned Jackboot because I thought he was doing a terrible job at playing heads of staff and now I'm convinced he's the best loremaster we could have). And I don't really know Nanotoxin. I never spoke to him personally. So for the record, this is all an outsider's perspective. Coming to terms with an addiction and taking the proper steps to dealing with it is no easy endeavor. Congratulations on staying clean.

What exactly is the point of creating a new thread? Why can't criticism be posted on the thread itself? Making an entirely new thread because you have slight reservations about another seems unnecessary and like something that could be perceived as a really exaggerated response.

Let's think about why the no IC in OOC rule is there, though - to prevent players from being spoiled information about the round. Is the fact that a player had their custom goggles spawned by the admins really going to be information that will run/spoil anybody's enjoyment of the round?

That would completely bar any public debate or criticism about the thread, which seems like a major impediment to free speech (yes lol). On paper, people just get to debate a thread in a different location. But in practice, you get OPs turning down or ignoring criticism, and nobody getting to really see it or oppose it. Plus people who aren't the OP do tend to have things to say about threads, too, and you lose all of their input.

Am I the only one who agrees that Baka acted kinda rudely? I mean, yes, Khalid's very last OOC message was uncalled for, but do we really need to get onto a player's back because they thanked the admins in OOC for spawning them their custom item? That seems like the most inconsequential breach of IC in OOC there could be (and before you start claiming so, no, IC in OOC won't spiral out of control because of that). I also think admins should be able to provide a brief explanation of why they're enforcing a rule before resorting to their shushing power.

While we're here, I don't really see these posts as being off-topic. They're criticism/discussion pertaining to the thread itself, and are formulated decently enough to be pertinent.

You'd probably want to link to specific posts to avoid making this a blanket statement. I won't bother digging through Nanotoxin's entire post history, but I don't remember him saying anything particularly inflammatory or otherwise inappropriate in the recent threads we've had. Remember, people, it's not because somebody has been involved in drama that they're necessarily bad. Make sure you clearly understand the reasons why you'd have a grudge to hold against that somebody before judging them. It's really easy to make unfounded assumptions, otherwise.

I'm looking at it from both perspectives. Is the item designed in a way that breaks realism out of necessity? As much as you can argue SS13 is unrealistic and goofy by nature, lots of the changes brought to the game to adapt it to HRP standards have aimed to add realism to the game and make it more intuitive. The esword (like most other antag tools) is balanced towards action-heavy antagging, where a player will run around the station trying to kill various people and provoking security's ire along the way. While it has its uses in HRP, they are vastly different from the way you'd see the weapon used in LRP. I'd argue that for this reason, the projectile block is honestly unnecessary (though keeping the melee parry function would be nice). The esword gives you close-range superiority, but does it need to transform you into John Rambo while you're at it? If this were a new weapon being introduced to a HRP server, there is no way its ability to deflect all projectiles while being a sword would be well-recieved. Consider that. (Also, the reason why it's not being used a ton is exactly because antags going on random murder sprees happen so rarely on HRP servers. This isn't purely a gameplay balance pass, it's a gameplay+immersion one.) Edit: I actually don't even know. There's two camps in SS13-HRP: those who want a realistic experience, and those who don't mind the SS13 goofiness, only more elaborate and with a roleplay flavor to it. I don't really know which to encourage here, and this should probably be left to the devs' preference.

Let's look at it holistically. There's a reason why walls are built instantly: because no one wants to sit in front of a half-built wall for 30 minutes or 8 hours. What is the reason why eswords can deflect bullets?

Not really a valid argument. Things like walls being built instantly constitute acceptable breaks from reality. As for melee weapons blocking all projectiles on a HRP server, there needs to be a decent reason for the mechanic to exist. If it's for the sake of balance, then it might get difficult to get decent numbers given how relatively rare specific combat situations happen in comparison to lrp, but I'll just open by saying that the esword is a powerful close-range weapon, and I don't really see why it should get to mitigate long-range damage as well. Right now, what it does is give antags the ability to be really resistant against tasers and various ranged projectiles by the sole virtue of possessing a sword. Is this something we want, or would we prefer antags who wish to prevail against ranged combat to rely on alternative strategies?

Yeah, I pretty much think that if anyone wants to discuss the newest issues Skull's response has raised, they should make a new thread.

Just pointing out that instead of writing up any kind of rebuttal, Delta resorted to pointing out that the person calling him out "shouldn't" be posting here due to some arbitrary technicality. In all honesty, you should stop posting. You're just harming the thread at this point.

The esword isn't a shoddy weapon in the first place, and I can't really see anyone arguing that removing its block would ruin it. I agree that this change needs to go through, if only for RP purposes. Maybe everyone on LRP is trying to robust you for being an antag and projectile deflection is justified then, but it's a lot more counter-intuitive and hard to explain on HRP. You wouldn't expect the guy with the sword to parry your projectiles with superhuman reflexes.

Well, I'm not really going to engage in pointless back and forth. I tried to say what I had to say, but I don't have the time nor the patience to set everything right with you. Take it as you will. (And before you dismiss me as simply being wrong and unwilling to admit it, I'll highlight you're the first person on here I think I've had to walk out on so lmao)

I actually never fully committed to joining as a DO. I considered the idea, fully knowing I might not be able to commit to it, and Hartburry added me in the chat regardless, while giving me some time to mull over the decision. He also brought up a few issues to me, which I would've liked to help with, and started discussing solutions for (including the DO offices I mapped and should be handing to Skull). I never claimed to "personally have solutions for all of your problems" nor did I announce leaving permanently (I politely informed the chat I likely wouldn't be able to help). You seem misinformed on this situation. As for what I meant by armchair generals, I think a few months ago, when you submitted a mod app, I pointed out I saw you rely on your words a lot to cover yourself (to make promises, apologies, etc.), and that it made me reluctant to endorse you as you rarely backed up these words. Words can achieve something (we've got admins to reconsider their actions in the apartment server case by making a thread), but they're not the be-all end-all to solving all of our problems. Chaz is simply pushing people to contribute to finding solutions to one of the community's problems, while you're berating him for that for... I'm not really sure why (despite having read your explanation). You've also come into the thread asking it to be locked for no discernible reason. There's not really any way to put it gently, but I think the advice I tried to give you a few months ago is something you've yet to heed. You've also managed to contradict yourself within the span of two posts, so, uh, gj.

Except that's not what's being done here. A lot of people like to act like armchair generals (in this case, speculating about hypothetical changes rather than looking for concrete solutions), but you're far more one of them than Chaz is. Sorry if this counts as a personal attack. I don't really know what else to say. /Also/, if you want to bring change, join the staff. Mod applications are open. If you can demonstrate you're reasonable and level-headed, you'll make it in. This goes for everyone.

Well, the issue's a different one now - namely, banning/punishing people for displaying certain attitudes on the forums. You're all free to debate it if you want (though I'd create a new thread). But it's not mine to fight.

You should start a donation drive and do shitty ss13 mspaint drawings for $5 upon request.

Heeeere you go. It's in the "Announcements" section, only not stickied anymore.

Don't butt in only to ask for a thread to be locked (unless it's yours, and even then, only with good reason). The only reason I can see why a thread should be locked is if continuing discussion on it would be more toxic than otherwise. I don't really see it happening here atm, and making "please lock" posts only adds to unnecessary noise. If you feel like a conversation is over as far as you're concerned, well, don't post?

Maybe we could come up with something cooler, more... interactive? Something that makes more sense? Like, okay, hear me out. But. Why not integrate a level-up system for the admins? Basically, admins start out with limited skills, but they get points for banning people, and eventually unlock more powers and abilities. It could be set up so that they can only ban a few people at the start and for simple things like welderbombing or spamming WGW, but as their banning power increases, they can ban increasingly powerful and numerous users, for increasingly convoluted offenses, such as metagrudging, sedition, dissent, having mary sue characters, etc. You could even be the final boss if you wanted.

I'm surprised by how conservative most of Aurora is. Seems like I'm the only person to have a chart somewhat similar to Dea's so far.

Well. This is pretty much out of my hands to argue/discuss. The problem I found was the one of a user being banned for doing something on a different community. If you're going to criticize Cassie for her contributions/attitude, it's not something I actually know much about. I doubt she's coming back, so there's not much of a risk of her "arguing again and getting permabanned", and I think you've sent her a pretty clear message you don't want her around. Is this what I would've done? No. But I stopped trying to organize the server a while ago, so it's your show now. Anyway, I appreciate everyone who came to weigh in.

//Serious text incoming Some people (well, most people) do get pretty invested in this game. And I can understand them. Heavy-RP SS13 isn't something that you really sit down and enjoy mindlessly every once in a while (well, it can be, but that's not how I see people play it). A lot of people log onto this server every day - they have various characters with complex backstories they care deeply about, a whole community of friends they discuss and share interests with, and for a lot of us, this is a major, major hobby. That said, we're still playing a game with our friends over the internet. But sometimes, when there's drama, reminding ourselves that "it's just a game and nothing is serious" doesn't really solve our problems, because we're encountering very real issues regarding things we care about. That said,

It sounds like the OP is looking for something slower-paced, and more work/RP-oriented than what Aurora currently is. Correct?