Frances

Deadhour tends to be better than livehour for general shenanigans anyway, in my experience. Sure, there's more going on during livehour, but through all of the chaos, you sorta... get isolated to your own little world of trouble and miss out on a lot of it? Like there's too much going on to keep track of everything. Whereas during deadhour it's easier to get a general sense of the flow of the round, and if anything funny, spectacular, or horrifying happens, you have a much better guarantee the whole station will be informed of it.

If I may cut in (not staff, but I think I remember the general basis of conflict-creation as an antag), So about murder/attempted murder: There are two criteria that must be present to a degree to justify a murder, antag or not: believability/realism (how much sense does it make to kill this person?), and RP potential (is the situation created by killing this person worth taking them out of the round?) The two can somewhat fill in for each other. For example, even if it doesn't create much additional RP (antag trying to kill you and you killing them in self-defense), if it would be outright nonsensical for you not to kill someone ICly, then you have decent grounds to kill them (and though my respect goes to people who can work themselves out of situations like this while keeping all players in the field, there's nothing wrong with acting in a way that makes sense IC.) Conversely, even if you might have no particular need to kill someone, if the killing can create an interesting situation (for the player and for others), then there's nothing wrong with murder either. (You need a much better justification as a non-antag than as an antag, though, else everyone would be murdering each other all the time.) Looking at Techno's actions here, I fail to see either of the aforementioned criteria being really met - which is why I have an issue with their play, even as an antagonist. Running around while dragging Ana and repeatedly hitting her didn't accomplish anything interesting for the crew, nor was it something Techno needed to do, or had much IC sense in doing. -If the purpose was to take a hostage, Lauren wouldn't have to repeatedly hit Ana's face into a wall while running away once Ana was clearly incapacitated. -If the purpose was to incapacitate Ana to create a distraction, then Lauren would've had to leave her somewhere, instead of dragging her along with herself and giving the rest of sec an even bigger incentive to hunt her down. -The only purpose left to Lauren's actions (that I can see) was that she was motivated by the desire to outright kill Ana. At which point, I'm gonna ask: what are you doing? It's five minutes to the end of the round, and you're running around while bashing the head of a member of security you don't even know along the walls in what might be the most unrealistic fashion possible. There is no potential for additional roleplay to be created by your actions, and you gain nothing by killing another member of sec besides the ability to gloat about how bloodthirsty of an antag you are. If you get caught in the middle of a crew transfer, you should either accept your fate and turn yourself in, or attempt to escape by a way that is slightly less ridiculous and doesn't involve wordlessly killing someone you had no prior interaction with in the most OOC and mechanically-driven way possible when you had no particular reason to kill them at all. It's not something I would've done. I don't think it warrants a heavy punishment either (well, maybe save for the fact that Techno seems to be notorious for going to extreme lengths to try to escape from security no matter what), but quite simply, I think it's bad antag play and deserves to be called out. If anything, antagonists should be held to a higher standard than regular crew, as it is their responsibility to create situations that are interesting for others first and foremost, not only for themselves.

Solitary exists for that. It's pretty simple: you beat someone up in prison, you get sent to solitary. Permabrig pretty much works the same way currently. Which regulars are you referring to?

Blame Samanth- err, Baka. I saw her post and was halfway through writing mine when I realized, and went "fuck it". I'm actually terrible and I'm sorry.

Duck will be back. She tends to come back. I also remember how Skull would send CC reports evaluating bomb tests and they were always hilarious. Oh, I miss events. I've only seen one event since... February? Since whenever I came back.

I've seen a few trials in deadhour, I've seen a few outside of it. What sucks is that I was told my application wasn't even good enough to be considered for trial, for reasons that were originally presented to me as unrelated to timezone constraints. And when I asked about those further to Skull, he told me to simply consider the timezone reasons instead and that he was too busy to deal with the rest. I did not attempt to contact Skull since he is very busy, and I do not want to hold him accountable for all of this (though I believe there's a few things as of late he should have delegated if he didn't have the capacity to handle them himself.) What disappoints me is that no other members of staff whatsoever rose up to discuss the issue at any point. I tried to hunt around a little to find out exactly what happened, but the few people I got in touch with told me they couldn't reveal others' names (for understandable privacy reasons) and I gave up on trying to pursue the entirety of staff after that, because honestly, that's just annoying for everyone. I was told that multiple people spoke against me. And it's like these people said their word and simply disappeared without giving me a chance to clear anything up (or even understand what their gripes were) and now no one cares about it anymore. (Sorry for the delayed reply. I wasn't sure what to say to Delta and figured I'd wait until someone from staff posted here, but either nobody saw the thread or nobody wanted to.)

Nightmare Tuiee Covert Chris Leore Halo Casper Sam IJ SKOP Chaz Viking Farcry Less Nebula For our old forums, where I was a tertiary admin and everything was simpler. These people were cool. Some of them still play sometimes, some don't. But I believe anyone who can recognize any of their names is fortunate in some way to have known them.

Honestly, though, there's two things Techno could've done. Injured someone and fled (though I feel most players would prioritize the culprit over the injured), or take a (mostly unharmed) hostage. The combination of the two (running away with someone while beating them to death) doesn't seem to achieve anything. Given that this wasn't someone Techno had any particular reason to kill or harm to that degree, doesn't that action seem more like a random "lolkill" attempt than an escape one?

People need to detach IC from OOC. Anytime people get upset, it's because somebody is either carrying IC into OOC, or believing someone else is acting on OOC emotions ICly. The default conflict resolution method should be to look at everything from an IC perspective until you have a clear understanding the person was motivated by OOC reasons. Otherwise there's a lot of fingerpointing and namecalling which shouldn't happen at all. Case in point, yesterday's cult round. No one meant anything bad (cultists were motivated by IC acts, same for sec), yet people jumped at each others' throats in LOOC by making assumptions instead of trying to understand what was going on.

The chicken suit shenanigans I couldn't care less around (the idea has some potential). But grabbing a random security officer and repeatedly attacking them while running away and dragging them has to count as ganking. I can see how injuring someone in your escape can aim to create chaos and make you harder to catch (by forcing others to prioritize helping the injured), but the way this was executed was more careless than anything.

As a regular security player, I can say that unruly prisoners that don't end up in isolation/banned are a rare occurrence. Most prisoners are perfectly capable of behaving themselves, and I'd have no issue with seeing them put in a communal brig.

Really love the bar signs. I wish we had some bar signs that were SS13 references, rather than Bay12/Dwarf Fortress ones.

Going to bring this up in this thread rather than the other as it's relatively quiet for now (though the question stands for both threads), but: There's currently two people working on their own rework of the brig. Neither are official mappers, Skull is in charge of adding map updates, and while both reworks are arguably better than the current brig setup, how exactly would we decide which one to take? One has a communal brig and the other does not. There's also a few minor things that I like better about Sue's map than Jamini's (the lobby isn't super cramped). But as a whole, what I can picture is a lot of people coming onto both threads to state reasons why they like or dislike the brigs, without a clear conclusion being drawn. How do we solve this?

Again, my only complaint is that there's no way to see the prisoners from the lobby. Even after playing sec for months I don't know how important temporary holding really is, so I'd propose to scrap it (or move it to the other hall entrance), and replace it/the visitation room with an extended brig area that has windows on the lobby. Visitation just isn't the same, because it requires you to be let into the security wing, and I can think of a lot of instances where security is too busy or unwilling to get you in. Being able to just walk up to the brig area is much better, no? Also Doesn't that take care of it? Prisoners getting into fights would actually give the warden something to do, and there's various ways for security to neutralize these people. Players going too ham in the brig for no valid reason would end up being punished by admins, as they already are when they do ridiculous stuff anywhere else.

Hm, so this is happening because of the low threshold on limb damage. Oh, well. I suppose it's not something that can be easily fixed, then.

They don't need to be exceedingly fragile, but I don't think they should receive a 50% reduction to all brute damage. They already have various other bonuses and specialties, and making them elite melee combatants doesn't need to be added to those. Saying they have other weaknesses has little to do with it. The only relevant weakness here is EMP (and lack of quick healing, to a degree). The fact that they can't get cloned has little to do with their ability to fight.

I find that a thing with scare tactics and "roughing up" of prisoners is that they only work if the players OOCly understand your intent. Otherwise they get very easily mistaken for shitsecurity and bad RP. While I know being stuffed into perma doesn't mean the end of the round for anyone (people putting you in perma shouldn't simply leave you there), some still don't seem to understand that. It would have been good to communicate to the engineers somehow, either ICly or in LOOC, that they would get processed and interrogated.

That's essentially what I had done. The communal brig was bigger and didn't have the infirmary (which could be moved - if it's main purpose is to provide sec with something when doctors suck too much to come, then it's not that crucial for doctors to have instant access). I also scrapped holding to have a visitation area/window, but I'm not sure if we might want to keep holding instead. I feel like giving permabrig a window onto the lobby might be more important. Sometimes I just wish we had the Baystation map because ours is plain weird in comparison.

I'd simply like to point out most break outs I've seen involve breaking into the brig by force and either neutralizing the warden or stealing their ID. Very rarely do the cell walls get C4'd, and if so, the easiest way to do it would be to replace the infirmary by a visitation room (because sec frankly doesn't need an infirmary when it's this close to medbay, or it can be stashed somewhere else.)

Worked a bit on this layout a week ago. The range and armory were some of Sam's old designs, so credit goes to him for those. I'm okay with either brig, but what I like of this one that the other does not have is a communal brig.

Much better than the current brig. I had started working on a simple layout with a communal brig, and handed it off to Sue. I'm not sure what's happening to it now, but she has it.

Most of the information seems to be leading towards BGS developing the game, though.

That might be the actual problem here. Hear me out. Playing a character who ends up in the brig regularly, regardless of antag status and defeating any sort of corporate behavioral review, is already risky enough. Doing it in a way that nobody enjoys is just... painful. I've played my share of ridiculous characters (and yes, a few people that wanted uber realism got pissed at them and called them hitler.) But I always tried to base them around some sort of gimmick, and make their actions either humorous or meaningful for others. And I went out of my way to make it clear I didn't want to OOCly fuck with people, just put on a show in-game. As far as I've seen (or heard), Lauren Blade does nothing of that. She seems to be every trait players hate of "bad" SS13 characters, condensed into one person. She's a dick with pretty much no reason, has the maturity of a middle schooler (half of what she does would get her fired on the spot in any common workplace, and petty things like "I'm not gonna do my job because I hate you" are simply annoying for everyone else to deal with), she constantly ends up in the brig and (according to wardens) constantly tries to escape from it. She doesn't appear to be funny or gimmicky either; she simply does these things. I could point out to a few rules, from those on self-antagging to those on trying to create decent roleplay as an antag (being antag shouldn't give you free rein to simply annoy everyone as much as possible - it has to be something more), but instead, I'll try to highlight the fact that no one seems to be OOCly enjoying your character's behavior. Which tends to be a sign you have something to change.

As an observer, I was able to see some faults from both security and engineering's ends. The biggest two were: -Almost all of the engineering cultists began to react very abrasively to being arrested in LOOC (Cassy, Poze, Techno). Full on yelling at sec players, insults, etc. This is no way to conduct yourself if you want to resolve a conflict or bring up what you believe to be an injustice to other players. -Security did stick all of them in perma over very dubious charges. While detainees screaming "bring me a lawyer" are obviously idiots, one of sec's responsibility is to make sure the people they arrest understand why they are being arrested, to an extent. The engineers didn't seem to understand security's train of thought, nor did sec really communicate what they had seen to them. And security really should've interrogated them before sticking an entire department in perma (maybe put them in perma "temporarily" meanwhile to give them a chance to RP/break out.) There was also a security officer who engaged in a bit of shitsec - maybe mad at the LOOC complaining, iunno. X Chung (don't recall the first name), went around and spamstunned Techno when he tried to run away (in cuffs), and tried to weld permabrig doors shut for some reason.

Again, EMPs are not readily available to all. The only person I know to have a free, reliable EMP is the wizard. Everyone else requires a degree of preparation somehow, which isn't ideal in the middle of a fight you didn't expect.