Frances

Aren't memes such as "dank" and a character just taking everything lightly (while still being aware of the situation) a different thing? You keep mentioning the popped lung. Keep in mind I went to medbay first thing when I got on station, tried to get help, and was chased at gunpoint by the CMO before being taken into the brig, still passing out from bloodloss, with no medical help whatsoever. At this point I made light of my condition (which was being ignored despite my mob literally spamming everybody with automated coughing messages), and did all of this while still acutely expressing pain and calling attention to my physical state. Would you prefer that I roleplay 30 minutes of straight-faced misery because the CMO decided to be a dick to me? Because that sounds kinda lame and excessive, in comparison. Anyway, you said that you didn't dislike "silly" characters, just that you found what I did "memetic", but at this point your posts seem to be leading more towards the idea that you did in fact have issues with my agent because he was silly. Edit: I also haven't been trying to change the subject, contrary to what you might think. Since the beginning of the complaint, I've been trying to argue that: 1. I didn't constantly spout memes, and did engage in other roleplay which people are blatantly ignoring 2. I don't understand how mentioning an old videogame is terribly reprehensible or immersion breaking (and do understand that it's silly) 3. I have no issue cutting down on memetic stuff altogether if it's found to be too extreme even for silly characters, I just don't want people to keep misrepresenting what happened as memefest 2015

You sorta missed the point if that is what you think lol. I only really ran into two groups of staff in the past. There was one group (Viking, and I don't know who else wanted to permaban me from the server without ever taking the time to discuss their issues with me) who thought that all kinds of non-serious characters were bad. There was another group who didn't have issues with me and halo messing around, as much as the frequency of it. I ended up having a serious discussing with the latter group and we established that joke characters were okay, they just needed not to happen 24/7. Since then (and that was months ago) I've played two joke characters, and I felt pretty justified both times I did (once was during a nations round where I was trying to create a nation based around 60s-70s funk, rather than a department. The other was in the round subjected to this complaint, where I realized that our nuke team would be unable to accomplish any traditional nuke objectives). So I don't think I exactly went back on my promise, or anything we established. What we didn't establish was that making jokes about welder fires not hurting you was a "meme", or that, well, pretty much anything silly is a meme now. I thought memes were things like ">tfw no gf" or "REEEEEEEEEEE" or "ayy lmao", but feel free to disagree, I guess. I don't have a degree in memeology or anything to back this up lol.

I don't want to not address these things, but pretty much the exact same discussion is taking place in the complaint in parallel, so I'd rather we continue it there to avoid redundancy, any arguments being lost, and making this application super long over a single debate. As for how this reflects on my ability to moderate the server, I'll simply refer to what I already said earlier in this topic:

So you're making an assumption because you don't actually know what happened -The first of these logs was the dreaded runescape joke, pretty much in its entirety. You've omitted the exchange that led to the joke being made, though, and I think it would be worth sharing that too. I won't deny that casually asking about runescape over comms as a nuke op was mildly memetic, but I also won't deny that people regularly joke about 450 year old games and movies, antags or not. I also won't deny that during the entire round, that was the only interaction I've had with the crew that wasn't syndicate/antag-related. -The second was actually said to our Diona teammate over the nuke channel - you didn't really have any way to guess that, though. For context, our third op had requested the Diona stay on the ship and I was trying to encourage him to come join us, as a two-op team is pretty lame. I never said it was only a joke with the nuke ops. I said the word dank 2-3 times otherwise, and you did quote all of them. How is saying "haha" a meme? Anyway, even though the word "dank" is just a variation of "cool", if the 'mins simply decide "don't say the word dank anymore", as I said, I'm pretty much cool with it (though I don't understand how it's going to help with the immersion when the very definition of joke characters is that they're absurd and not really a work of immersion, but if you want to make joke characters a bit more "serious", okay, that's fine.) The reason why I'm defending myself so much against this is that people are accusing me of tearing apart the fabric of roleplay by using the word "dank" (now people are starting to say that I was encouraging other people to chucklefuck) and are trying to claim that my character was memespouting for the whole round, which frankly, he wasn't.

Three to four vocal people are not the majority, however. There's a wide variety of groups on the server that campaign for various opinions and positions. Some show up in specific types of complaints, some show up in others, some show up in the suggestions forum or in general threads, finally there's some that don't really speak on the forums but mostly appear in the actual game (when their positions aren't contested) or in OOC chat (where people like to debate things). The way these positions should be evaluated and valued should be through the arguments they present, not through how loudly they claim that they have an issue with something. Not only are the majority not bothered by this (I would like to advance that the majority doesn't give a damn one way or another, as long as joke characters aren't constant), but saying that I'm doing this to purposely bother people is a bit presumptuous, considering the explanation that I was trying to bring some lighthearted fun to the round (and some people ended up disagreeing in a very vocal and explosive way) would be a much simpler one. Anyway, about the strawman - a lot of the accusations in this complaint refer to the sole fact that I used the word "dank" a few times. If the staff have an issue with me using the word dank ICly because it's too silly, they could simply ask me to stop using it and that'd be the end of that. Like, I'm perfectly cool with that, let's go ahead.

Is it necessary, though? Our lore has always been about making the Aurora station a small part of a much bigger universe - it'd feel kinda weird to have tidbits about honestly inconsequential characters, lore-wise, mixed in with important lore events. This is the same reason why you don't really see canon characters mixed-in with the lore. I mean, if we had good canon antagonists, or great scientists that made new discoveries, then it would actually be fun to add them to the lore, but I don't think we should add messages such as "on 7.oct.2457 offer blah did a funny".

As an underage person I don't feel qualified to answer this question

Just to provide more info: So, where did you get your count from again? I got my count from the specific logs that covered a 30-minute period of RP with the crew. Thanks for getting a complete dank/runescape count of the round, though. As you can see it... really wasn't used that much, actually, to the point that even I am surprised. It was mostly used to joke with the other nuke ops (who seemed to think I was halorocks) at the beginning of the round. Anyway, you can certainly call my character absurd, but I don't think it's very fair to call him a memetic piece of shit because it should be pretty obvious that spouting round-long memes wasn't my objective. I don't see where anyone tried to argue that this was "immersive"... most silly rounds aren't. Anyway, it's not because people scream louder that we have to do something more urgently. There's also people who believe this was mostly inoffensive, so... who should we listen to? The first step here should be to establish whether what happened is a new precedent to be enforced.

Well, none of the incidents I brought up involved any provocation on the part of anyone involved, lol. (They also happened before the events you're mentioning.) Being a mod involves settling disputes rationally. From the posts I linked, it seems that Sierra is really quick to get on the defensive and make the bad guys out of an involved party simply because people are having a disagreement. (Calling someone a furry hater just because a disagreement involved a furry, calling someone a power-tripping shitter just because a disagreement involved a wizard being held by security under circumstances.)

Hm, really? Where have I tried to alienate anyone for their roleplay? I've only made one complaint about the quality of roleplay in the past... year, and it was because someone was trying to turn a Tajaran into a sparkling fursona. In general, my objective is more to allow as many people to do their thing as possible, without everybody getting upset. Don't get me wrong, I understand well the difference between a serious character and a joke character. I just enjoy joke characters, and play them (very rarely now) because I think they're an enjoyable break from the constant drama most rounds represent (storytelling drama, not internet drama). Historically, joke characters and events have always been a small part of Aurora (and if you want to discuss their quality rather than their presence then I'd ask that you look beyond the mention of a single videogame - which is what you seem to be upset that I did). I actually don't mind - and am perfectly capable of - enforcing whatever it is that mods want, rather than what I personally want. I might try to convince others to give players some leeway if I see good reason to, but my plan isn't to make Aurora chucklefucking galore, and even though it saddens me a bit, I'm well aware that being a mod means telling individuals like Halo to lay off when they do things that are a little too ridiculous. I don't think I've been acting like a complete idiot, though, because the current issue is that a few vocal users are disagreeing with the precedent that has been set with joke rounds and characters (that they're allowed to exist in moderation). As we haven't established yet whether your demands are legitimate and something that should be enforced, I think it's rather unfair to say I'd make a bad mod simply for getting caught in this. I understand it might leave a bad taste in some people's mouths at first glance, but I believe it actually shows I'm concerned with the actual "fun' of the players (not for joking, for thinking it's okay to joke) and for the intents behind people's actions, rather than just being invested in enforcing the rules because "we srs now". Lastly I didn't encourage other people to play silly characters at any point - it's something I believe people should do when they feel it's actually appropriate (such as in silly rounds) and with a decent concept behind it.

I'm not sure how much I want the complaint to expand on this particular subtopic, but there's not really any better place to discuss it. Metagrudging might be the bad word, but you're most definitely acting like you're holding a grudge. Your complaining has been pretty constant ever since this happened, to the point that OOC needed to be muted today because you wouldn't stop talking about how much this, nuke rounds, and the 'toxicity of RP' in general upset you (followed by an admin having to ask you to stop doing the same thing in deadchat). You seem to be putting a lot more energy into this than would seem healthy. And you don't seem to ever be having any fun when I see you talking with people, you just... complain. And complain. And complain. About the same things. I'm just saying this as a concerned individual. Do carry on with the player complaint, let's see where this heads, and my goal isn't to distract you from discussing whatever underlying issues you want to discuss. But you should probably consider your motivations for spending your time here if all the game does is frustrate you, and I find it hard to believe that you're doing this out of goodwill while remaining completely impartial considering the kind of behavior you've displayed.

That was fast! I will look at updating the species' wiki page, and then we can get started on approving applications.

We can probably get this changed sometime soon.

Do take note that out of the 30+ rounds I played in the last month, two of them involved joke characters. (One was during this nuke round, another was during a nations round.) I tried to explain my justifications a little bit on the player complaint which is still open. If you believe my character was genuinely "bad", feel free to explain why there, if you'd like?

I don't have the full logs (Letz Shake could probably post them seeing as he admitted to purposely staying on nuke rounds for the sole purpose of logging complaints), but anyway, here's an excerpt of some of my adventures as Halo the dank agent, for comparison: (I cleaned up some of the message/"the halo coughs!" spam but left in every single line that was relevant to my character) Total "dank" count: 0 Total "runescape" count: 0 Most of the round pretty much went like that, although that was really the most notable chain of events for me (besides us trying to recruit people at the start) seeing as I spent most of it in space.

Is the substance actually gone from these acts, though? Keep in mind you're looking at a player complaint - it's obvious that the good aspects of the round aren't going to be lauded here, yet alone even presented. I think the absurdity of a rag-tag band of syndicate mercs trying to hold a very, very optimistic recruiting campaign onboard a NanoTrasen station is certainly worth considering as something... interesting, for the least. So is having these characters laud the Syndicate's employee benefits over public comms and try to sell them over NanoTrasen's inferior worker coverage (would you believe that NanoTrasen doesn't even have a dental plan?) More fun stuff would've probably ensued if 2/3rds of our team didn't AFK or get lost in space. I don't think a character using the word "dank" detracts from all of that or makes it a crime, but if you want to make it against the rules to say the word "dank" while playing joke characters, make it so. Speaking of that, err, I still don't understand how making a single reference to a videogame is elevating a character to memetic proportions (my character was otherwise acting pretty legitimately for the rest of the round, if you ignore the fact that he was merrily trying to recruit NT employees to the syndicate cause), but since people keep throwing the term "memes" around it'd probably be time to come down on this and establish exactly what these memetic crimes were. Do take note that I haven't really looked at the other stuff - I'm merely trying to defend my own actions. I have never said, at any point, that I condone having characters named "Jewish Goldstein" constantly come on station or idk what. Because people on here have been pretty consistently trying to deform my words - at the very least Letz Shake and Sierra.

Not only are you oversimplifying the issue you're trying to describe, but I did not try to defend Halo for stripping naked, and did mention I believe he stepped over the line and deserves to get talked to for that You also called that previous complaint of mine an "attack on furries". I think you're trying to see bias where there might not be any.

I believe there's somewhat of a precedent - in what's already being enforced or not. I can only speak for my own actions as a nuke op, but I honestly don't believe what I've done is vastly different from the any amount of other silly things people have done to goof off on the server. When I had a conversation about chucklefucking and silliness with Tenenza, the main thing that came up was the notion of frequency - that people liked silly rounds from time to time but that it got tiresome when the same joke characters showed up every day. This was one single round in the middle of the night, and I still feel like trying to handle the situation I was given from a 100% serious position would've resulted in a frustrating and fairly bland event. I have spoken to some of the people who have complained, and some, like Sue, say that they believe too many silly things are happening at once on the server, while other people think that these kind of rounds are excessive and need to be cut down altogether (I don't really understand Letz Shake's allegations as he seems upset that I mentioned videogames at the beginning of the round? Anyway.) I don't mind following the mods if they make the decision that no rounds of that sort whatsoever should happen anymore (though I'll be a little sad). Currently, however, this isn't a decision that has already been made.

The downside of Skrells is that they are very bad at combat. A four foot tall frog coming at you is not very scary. They can honestly know a lot of things, but I'm not too afraid for gameplay. Is a doctor that knows science or a scientist that knows medicine a balance issue, or is it one of realism? If realism, keep in mind Skrell can be hundreds of years old and very very smart. I do not think it is a Mary Sue as they still look ridiculous. Yes, as you get older time begins to lose significance. Skrell medicine would find a way to preserve mental functions (what is the use of living for 400 years if you spend 250 on a respirator?) but one consequence would be that events would seem less important for older Skrell. A year for a 25 year old is equivalent to a decade for a 300 year old. I hope people have fun roleplaying with this.

Uh... that was a joke, right? I really hope that was a joke, but Poe's Law means I can't be sure. Uh- nope. thats on the wiki. Well we will have to fix that then

I did say I wanted to get the ball rolling, didn't I? I looked at the feedback posted in the last two days, and these are the changes I was able to come up with for the Skrells. What I'm presenting goes in two parts: first, a short, page-long "quickstart" guide explaining the major points of the species, and then an actual changelist of things I modified since the Tool era. So here we go. Skrell Physiology The Skrell are a species of humanoid amphibians resembling axolotl or salamanders. They are slightly shorter than humans (4’5 to 5’ on average), and their skin takes on a variety of pastel tones, the most common being blue and green. They have large, beady black eyes and very simple face morphology, making it difficult for them to convey emotions to other species. Their lifespan is significantly longer than those of other species due to medical advances and bioengineering, meaning that Skrell can often live for up to 300 or 400 years. Coming from the swamp world of Jargon IV, Skrell are are adapted to aquatic life and have webbed fingers and toes. They are omnivorous, and do not have teeth. As a result, their diet consists of a blend of soups, aquatic plants, and insects. (Insects on the Skrell homeworld are very large.) Skrell are frail by nature and do not make very good physical combatants, although the Skrell military relies on biochemical and biomechanical implants to enhance the physical capabilities of some of their soldiers. History The Skrell have been spacefaring for centuries. As a result, they are significantly more advanced technologically than other species. They began colonizing their first planets in the early 2000s, leading to the discovery of their first sentient alien species, the Dionae - they would end up meeting humanity at the turn of the 25th century, some 50 years ago. Skrells have been expanding their colony system at a stable pace for the last 400 years, although they are now unable to compete with humanity’s fast-paced growth. To this day, they still remain far ahead of humans in the technological race. However, there are rumors pointing towards human scientific progress being quicker than for the Skrell. This has been making some Skrells nervous. Historically, Skrells have maintained cordial relations with groups of humans they consider “trustworthy”, such as the Sol Alliance and NanoTrasen. They are wary of humans as a whole, however, especially for their recent advances in AI research which they judge dangerous, and for terrorist attacks on Skrell embassies orchestrated by xenophobic human groups in the past. The Skrell have always favored council-based governments through their history, and are currently led by a federal state, the Jargon Federation. Culture Skrellian culture puts a lot of emphasis on intellectual enlightenment, as well as efficiency. The average Skrell could essentially be compared to an asian high school student, but doped on Adderall and also neurotic. Many aspects common to human society are surprisingly absent from the Skrell: Skrell are asexual and see reproduction as a chore, and most have abandoned religious or spiritual pursuits, choosing to rather concentrate on ethical philosophies as a guide for their way of life. (Ancient Skrell religions and traditions are still present in small amounts, though they are generally shunned or ignored.) Skrell do experience a full range of emotions, interests and drives similar to those of humans, though they struggle at sharing and communicating those with other species. As automation is present in great quantities across Skrell worlds, most Skrells choose to pursue scientific fields as their life goals. The extensive lifespan of the modern Skrell allows it to retain vast amounts of knowledge across decades, and the oldest and most renowned Skrell scientists are often said to be worth several of their human counterparts. Skrell mechanics, foremen, nurses, janitor and such are still important to maintaining Skrellian society, though their role is often misunderstood and underestimated by their brethren working in higher fields, and they tend to face discrimination as a result. A relatively recent development of the past two centuries, biochemical and biomechanical implants have become an important facet of Skrellian life. Skrells will often choose to undergo voluntary augmentation to increase their physical and mental capacities and perform better at certain tasks: for example, an implant might allow a Skrell to go without sleep, help their concentration or parallel thinking abilities, or improve their fine motor skills. The choice to undergo augmentation is in theory a purely voluntary one, and left to personal preference as some of the offered implants can call for considerable lifestyle alterations. Nevertheless, there has been a push among the most competitive Skrellian companies and fields for employees to get “implanted” in order to keep up with competitors. Skrell in the Modern Age Skrellian contributions to mankind’s technological advancements are numerous, and Skrells are widely respected by humans for this reason. Many important technologies human rely on in the 2450s, including cloning, bioprinting, prosthesis technologies and bluespace drives (which were a joint human-Skrell development project) are the result of Skrell innovation. Skrell scientists are widely prized for their superior intellect. Although many of the Skrells’ technological secrets are still closely guarded, many exchange programs across the Sol Alliance and megacorporations involve humans and Skrells collaborating together to further scientific research. Outside of research and trading stations, however, Skrells are fairly rare as they do not tend to mingle with other species. Although individual Skrells are seen as frail by other species’ physical standards, they maintain the most fearsome military of the galaxy. Most of their strength is derived not from numbers, but from the advanced technology and firepower of their ships, and from their mastery of battle tactics and logistics. Their vat-grown Tup commandos are especially feared for their infiltration capabilities and combat prowess. Skrell tend to look down on other species. They might not display outright xenophobia, but it is not uncommon for them to treat the “lower” species as if they were small children, though common sense dictates this is not something they would ever admit openly. Recent tensions have been emerging between the Skrell and human scientific communities due to the rapid development of the latter in the field of AI research, a pursuit which the Skrell consider foolish at best, and coming with the risk of potentially universe-ending repercussions at worst. For this reason, the average Skrell does not tend to have a very positive view of IPCs. Changelist: Longer lifespan: Skrells can now live up to 300-400 years, which lets them learn many, many things Skrells are just one species. No more cave-Skrells, ice-Skrells or lava-Skrells. Skrell scientists can now be experts in any variety of fields as long as they have the credentials (and age) to back them up (A scientist, researching human biology, working as an MD and moonlighting as a geneticist? Now possible!) Qualification of Skrell speech: Short, concise. Reproduces Skrellian desire for efficiency. No unnecessary information or repetition. Comparable to these sentences. ((Skrells can basically speak like from Mass Effect.) Skrell culture is all about efficiency and performance. Skrells are obsessed with being the best and doing things in the most “ideal” way. Many Skrells rely on implants and prosthetics to enhance their bodies. Most do it to be better scientists but the practice is also common among the military, both for ground troops and pilots. Humans are still very reliant on Skrell tech and assistance for their future plans, which makes them very nervous about the recent tensions between Skrells and humans (hey, gotta be nice to skrells) Skrells subtly look down on other races for not being as smart as them. No “fuck the catbeasts”, please. Most Skrells are euphoric atheists and do not believe in a superior deity, rather choosing to base their lives around ethical philosophies for guidance. Ancient Skrell religions have been left in as a vestige of the old days, but keep in mind your Skrell is going to be weird for believing in them, not average. The rest of this thread shall be dedicated to a Q&A period, before I finalize things on the wiki. Basically, tell me what you think, if you like or hate the changes, and what I could do better. Keep in mind this isn't the end of the changes but only the beginning.

I'm trying to address the criticism as best as I can. What exactly makes you feel like this is a shit show? Also silly rounds have alwayshappened to a degree on Aurora.

I'm sorry, I dunno how to put it gently, but the burden of proof on metabuddying rests on you. You still haven't explained how this was metabuddying, as well as what negative effects it had on the round. I asked you a question, and your rationale for your accusations can currently be summed up as "uh, I don't really want or feel the need to answer". So haha, I don't really know where we're headed with that but all of this is kinda difficult.

I dunno, the logs posted do show that they were fucking around, and letting someone strip you completely while laughing about it is definitely pushing the limits of "acceptable" silly RP, so Halo should probably get a talking to about this. But I still don't understand how it's a proof of metabuddying, or a metacommunication issue. What sort of out-of-perspective information was communicated? How did the players team up to gain an unfair advantage?