spacevoidagent

I don't need you to tell me the difference, I know that. Also, there is a huge line between ISIS and Waffen SS. If you even attempt to compare the two, please don't. http://uncensoredhistory.blogspot.com/2013/02/waffen-ss-war-criminals-great-soldiers.html

I'll make this simple for you. Here's what the rules say: Here's what you said: And then here's what I said: The conversation covered by the warning wasn't a meritorious discussion into the history of the swastika before it was adopted by the Nazi party. If you are truly so daft as to fail to realize that what you said could be potentially offensive, and then think you could somehow convince other administrators that quotes adopted by Nazi officials - as well as expressing the desire to be one of them - are not offensive or "hateful," then I don't think this is the server for you. http://uncensoredhistory.blogspot.com/2013/02/waffen-ss-war-criminals-great-soldiers.html

You killed Safiya, and Siganto ate her. I (Zeke Miller) hid the body in the tunnels like you told me to. So only some of what you said is true.

I agree.

What kind of response is that? Just because I have information that reinforces by claims you suddenly decide to stop? It looks like someone realized they were wrong. And where did I fail to take responsibility? And I a a Bigot? You are the one attacking me, because I believe that not all Waffen SS are evil people. Do you even know the definition of a bigot? big·ot /ˈbiɡət/ noun a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.

And what have you referred to? Nothing except for your own personal thoughts and beliefs. My citation highlights that all Waffen SS were not savage murderers, or brutes. If you overlooked this, you should read it again. Waffen SS were held to a high standard, and were punished for violating prisoners in concentration camps. Not all of them were bad. The complaint was fine until you came along, like some of the others, went out of the context of the complaint, and branded me as a racist, Nazi, and a fool. You brought nothing productive to the complaint except for your morals taught to you. If all Waffen SS are bad, are all the US Marines murderers too? You know, they committed the My Lai Massacre in Vietnam? Here, read this blog as well, it has more sources if that is all you seem to care about. http://uncensoredhistory.blogspot.com/2013/02/waffen-ss-war-criminals-great-soldiers.html

Except, this is exactly how it came off to people. You effectually lost sufficient respect points in some people eye's that you dropped from 'random dude that RPs I guess' to 'a completely vile, racist Wehrmacht sympathizer.' It doesn't matter what you think you said, you came off as an offlandish, racist douche. You made a comment that immediately made you easy to hate. It actually does, considering the Waffen-SS was a creation of the Nazi party, and not of the German army. It is a fascist, extreme-authoritarian regime that materialized in an effort to crush the ideological enemies of the Nazis. And what were the ideologues that the Nazis preached? Oh yeah, something about the Aryan race and that everyone else was inferior or something and didn't deserve to live. No, you are a racist, but that's your problem, not mine. I'm glad the administration and moderation have taken steps to stop people from abusing their right to share ideas. https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2010/05/25/ss-soldiers-have-an-undeserved-bad-reputation/

Alright, so quoting something or someone makes me a vial racist? Lets use that logic, and put it into other situations, then shall we? “You cannot run faster than a bullet.” – Idi Amin, so using your logic and branding me as a evil racist, what does this quote brand me as? A murderer who shoots people in the back? A sharpshooter? A sniper? What? “One death is a tragedy; one million is a statistic.” – Josef Stalin, what does this quote make me? A communist? A mass murderer? Please, enlighten me. “We need not fear the judgement of history. Who, after all, speaks today of the extermination of the Armenians?” – Adolf Hitler, how about this one? Does this make me a Nazi? A vial racist? Or someone that stood up against the massacre of the Armenian people? A Historian, perhaps?

I support this because I vote Secret, hoping for antags, not extended. If I wanted extended, I would have voted for it.

There comes a point in time where we have to exercise common sense. I'm sure that at some point in your head, you probably thought to yourself "hm, maybe saying I want to be part of the Waffen SS isn't such a good idea." That's because it wasn't - I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say we'd like to keep our racism and divisiveness IC in both state and relevance. Want to enslave the entire tajaran race? Feel free to boldly state that, but don't be surprised if a few of those #TajLivesMatter activists try to claw you in the face. See what I did there? There comes a point where you have to exercise common sense, and don't make up bullshit dialogue and read all my previous posts. Once again, wishing to be in the Waffen SS doesn't make me racist. How many times to I have to explain this?

I'm trying to tell you, I myself was never told directly to stop other then once. After I was told to stop I complied, and stopped talking. Shortly after this, someone asked "English?" of the Quote I posted, so I thought it would be okay to translate it for them, so I did. I was then muted and given this warning. Until we have logs, I believe I was only told once to stop. Well no of course it wouldn't be good to greet a new player with cries of that, but so many other topics are discussed in OOC they have a chance of being greeted with anything. From abortion jokes, to slavery, to furrys and ERP. Surely those would make a bad first impression as well? One of the things I like about this community, is the OOC community. The group of players is broad and different, and thus makes for more interesting discussions about things like History, Jokes, Technology, and even Tactics of the War against Terrorism and ISIS. Until we directly violate the rules or directly offend someone in OOC I think we should be able to talk about these things, and post songs and such. As far as I can tell, nobody was offended and the only people asking us to stop was staff because they apparently saw several other staff attempting to silence the group. Should we have been muted? I don't think so, the discussion wasn't hateful, slanderous or toxic. Everyone was getting along, and it wasn't like we were starting a race war by screaming "Aryan race forever!" and "Heil Hitler!". So yes, I can conceive why you wouldn't want players to be greeted with calls of "Arbeit yacht Frei.", but don't fathom why talking about 'Nazis' and German WWII music is such a problem that OOC needs to be muted.

This. All of this, is irrelevant to the complaint at hand, which is that you believe the warning was untrue and absurd. The warning said that you said Nazi-related things in OOC. You said Nazi-related things in OOC. As for the IC incident, I'm waiting on the staff member who told me so to speak up on it. Until then, I don't see what your argument is. You weren't cherrypicked, considering the others were spoken to and Tytos was muted from OOC, much as yourself. Yes I know that is all non-related to the complaint, that is what I was telling Vittorio. I don't think I really made any really offensive, worse then PG-13 remarks, relating to Nazis. I learned about the Nazis when I was 8, and more when I was 10, and 12. I merely said a Military Motto, a slogan regarding concentration camps, and a marching song. I never made holocaust jokes about ovens or summer camps, or anything of that sort. I can understand the holocaust and all being a touchy subject, but it's history, and we aren't supposed to forget it. If anyone was offended by my 'Nazi' remarks, I apologize. I still believe the warning is Untrue, sure I made some 'Nazi' remarks in OOC, but none of them were particularly offensive and not rule breaking. I also still think the 'report' I was making Hitler jokes IC is absurd, and I look forward to seeing proof of the 'jokes' I made.

Okay okay okay the mere fact that I wished to be apart of one of the most powerful and respected fighting forces in History should not be warnable. And no I'm not ignorant, the Quote isn't even bad. The incident that you referred to his hardly offensive to anyone, and has no meaning to my complaint. A group of men tasked with defending the group, defended the group from a attempted mutiny, and did nothing wrong except for fulfilling their duty. Hitler congratulated the SS, and his quote later became the motto of the Warden SS. So please, tell me how I'm ignorant for thinking otherwise of the quote? Did you even bother to fucking read the info that you posted? "It's on fucking Wikipedia." so what? What does it matter? Your ignorant post regarding the Waffen SS motto and the Stennes Revolt is laughable, and completely lacks purpose in the argument against me.

Which, for those of you who didn't do a simple Google search, is a quote by Adolf Hitler, nonetheless, after the Stennes Revolt, which later became the motto of the SS. It translates to, "My honour is called loyalty." I guess this can be summed up with the following: It's not so much a Hitler quote, but rather the motto of the Waffen SS. Which of course, relates to "I wish I was in the Waffen SS." I was never told, once again to stop with the marching songs, because I never posted a link to a song, but rather only 5 lyrics, which nobody seemed to even notice or acknowledge. The lyrics themselves once-again, have no direct 'Nazi' meaning. In the warning it says "Reported making Hitler jokes ICly." this is not equivalent to "reportedly made Hitler jokes in IC", with your wording, it makes it seem like I did make Hitler jokes IC, and was reported for it.

Thank you. Finally someone who sees my point of view, you have literally captured my thoughts and put it into the words that I couldn't. I applaud you for your good judgement and typing skills. In relation to quoting Hitler, I never did that, to clear things up. I indeed too feel it was a Cherrypick, and this is a second/third case of unfair ruling against me. The other for making a Islamic character and making a satirical group called ISIS (Which I had no further time to develop after I was told to stop.), and the other for resisting arrest and cuffing/taking off a headset of a officer and running away. I somehow feel the staff has a personal vendetta against me or just want their overall power and presence on the server to be felt. They have the power to warn and ban, and seem driven to use it all the time, some staff more then others.

I'm not enjoying the warning at all, almost none of it is true, ESPECIALLY the part where it says I was making Hitler jokes IC, which I never did. I want it changed and the warning edited to what is actually true. So no, I wont have fun with that.

How many times do I have to say it. I was never told to stop until AFTER all the things were said. I complied, and another player in OOC asked for "English?" of what I said last, which was "Meine Ehre heißt Treue", so I did. I translated it for them, and said: "Meine Ehre heißt Treue = My Honor is Loyalty." shortly after this, I was muted and given a stern talking to by IJ. This is not true. While my memory may be getting shittier by the day, I distinctly remember you and another player speaking about these things in OOC, and told multiple times to stop, before the last one. The most likely thing that happened is that you glanced over them multiple times somehow. You were told to stop, before the last one. You keep saying you weren't, but as I'm sure other people can tell you, you were. Im sorry, but I swear, I was told once to stop, I recall the staff telling us to stop posting 'Nazi' songs, which I never did, so I thought that warning didn't apply to me. If it was, then I acknowledge that. But other then that and the mentioned stop, I wasn't told any other times.

How many times do I have to say it. I was never told to stop until AFTER all the things were said. I complied, and another player in OOC asked for "English?" of what I said last, which was "Meine Ehre heißt Treue", so I did. I translated it for them, and said: "Meine Ehre heißt Treue = My Honor is Loyalty." shortly after this, I was muted and given a stern talking to by IJ.

I'm sure we can all agree that bringing up Nazis in a positive way is bad, right? Especially, with resounding and riveting quotes such as, This is the quote that got OOC muted, and the reason I was prompted to speak to Space in the first place. Why anybody in their right mind would think it's okay to say this, is beyond me, but I digress. The warning you were given is as follows, Now, we have to wait for Scopes to wake up to pull logs, but I distinctly remember you attempting to justify your comment about wanting to be a part of the Waffen SS by saying they were great warriors, etc. And because they weren't all camp guards, etc. Which, once again, I don't understand. That's like saying it's okay to support ISIS because some of the people who support ISIS are probably nice guys and stuff. It's a baseless argument. But let's continue, shall we? You were warned specifically for making Nazi-related remarks in OOC. Not only were you told to stop with the Nazi marching songs by several people, including myself, Voltage, and Baka, you persisted with the Nazi-related remarks such as, Which, for those of you who didn't do a simple Google search, is a quote by Adolf Hitler, nonetheless, after the Stennes Revolt, which later became the motto of the SS. It translates to, "My honour is called loyalty." Those people were also spoken to, in fact. And before you go off about saying it was a completely uninformed and rude statement, let's do a history lesson. The song, "Erika," was composed by a German man named Herms Niel, in the 1930's. It doesn't have anything Nazi-related in the song itself, alright, and I wouldn't have paid any mind to it other than the fact that it's not English, which you were told about several times. Okay, that's fine, but it was also written by a man who, well, I'll let Wikipedia take it from here. This aforementioned factoid is exacerbated by the fact that before you ardently proclaimed your passion for the Waffen SS and your desire to join it, you stated that you loved their marching music. Yes, if by misinterpreted you mean taken for what it has stood for for the past seventy years, sure. I'm going to have to call BS on this, for the simple fact that, well, you continued with your tirade after the fact. If it had stopped there, honestly, I probably wouldn't have noticed, or at least wouldn't have muted you from OOC, because well, over-policing the playerbase is butts. But the fact that you were offending people and continued after you were told in OOC to stop made it so that I had to take further action. Ah, I see. Are you really trying to say that your comments are okay because their K/D ratio wasn't as high as other nations? Really, is that your way to defend yourself? I don't know how to put this gently, so I'll be blunt. You stated that the warning was untrue, absurd, when the warning entailed that you mentioned Nazi-related things in OOC. You, yourself, admitted you said things such as, "I wish I was in the Waffen SS," and "Abreit Macht Frei", which Frances covered with the fact that it literally hung on top of numerous entrances to concentration camps. But that's okay, not like you mentioned Nazis or military regiments connected to the Nazis after that or anything, right? I did say that not all Waffen SS are bad, because it is true, were all of them murderers and camp guards? No they were not, most were on the front lines, and strong, noble warriors. They fought hard until the surrender of Germany, and were feared and respected by all the nations of WW2. You're argument is not really valid, because ISIS is a terrorist organization, not a true fighting force or registered military branch. Since Marines in Vietnam committed the My Lai massacre, does this mean all Marines are murderers and killers? No. Just because the man was a composer for the NDSAP doesn't make the song 'Nazi' or evil. It's a catchy song, with a good meaning. If I am a composer for the United States, does that mean I am a congressman, or a Democracy supporter? No. Just because he is in the group/conducts music for them doesn't mean the song I mentioned is 'Nazi'. And once again, I was never told to stop, and when I infact was told to stop, I DID, but then translated "Meine Ehre heißt Treue", for which I was muted and then punished. If I offended anyone with my 'Tirade' I apologize, for I had no intentions. And no, IJ, Im not using 'They had a Better K/D' as an excuse, and if you think that, you have to be joking. That is so immature, and frankly, one of the most retarded things I have ever heard. Just saying other nations had a higher K/D is just ridiculous.

You sure? One of the links that was posted was, if I'm recalling correctly, literally a song about Nazis. Unless, of course, there was another reason to have a Nazi flag on the screen for the entire song. I mean, I could be wrong there, but normally when I see a Nazi flag in a song, I assume it has something to do with Nazis. Also, just because others are doing it, doesn't mean you have to right to do so as well. Two wrongs don't make a right. Well I was never told to stop, and the only time I was, was after I said Meine Ehre heißt Treue. I stopped, but then typed Meine Ehre heißt Treue = My Honor is Loyalty, because someone asked for me to translate it. This was when I was muted and accused of not stopping when asked. All the links that I clicked didn't have a Nazi meaning and must have missed that one. The Nazi flag on the screen doesn't mean it was a 'Nazi' song, it was just a song of the Nazi Party/German Military. If I posted a song in Russian, and the image was a sickle and hammer, would it be a communist song? Not necessarily. Regarding the IC Hitler jokes (Which never happened, mind you.) I do ask that whomever made those claims steps up or IJ tells us who made those claims, because I made no Hitler jokes whatsoever. Regarding talking about WW2, Nazis, etc. we talk about it alot because it is a interesting topic. Other players were making jokes that led to it, and it eventually escalated to this.

But it was not meant to represent concentration camps. No, it was not. It was a simple, misinterpreted joke that went astray.

Okay, I just want to start by looking at that statement alone because that's the easiest thing to do for this complaint right now. What exactly were you trying to say/represent by posting "Arbeit Macht Frei" in OOC? It was just a joke and a quote that came to mind.

You must have not read my entire post, I said I NEVER talked about Hitler, and never talked about him in OOC. There is nothing wrong with the marching song or being in the Waffen SS, they were just soldiers. Some committed murder, most didn't. I can understand the "Arbeit Macht Frei" concerns, but had no intentions to offend or try to represent Concentration Camps with the statement. I think the holocaust was a bad thing, but is over dramatized and other things happened that were worse then the Holocaust. For example, Stalin killing 20 million of his own Citizens, and around 23 million Chinese killed by the Japanese, also, the American camps for German Prisoners and Japanese-Americans in the United States. You are also missing the point about 'German culture things', because they said that simple marching songs and songs in German language were 'Nazi' songs. If I posted Russian songs would they be considered Communist, just because they were sung by a communist nation? Many of the songs posted had no direct correlation to 'Nazis' unless I missed lyrics about Death Camps, Kristallnacht, or the NSDAP party.

BYOND Key: spacevoidagent Staff BYOND Key: IncognitoJesus Reason for complaint: The Warning I was given is absolutely absurd and untrue, and the whole situation is bologna.Evidence/logs/etc: I don't have any logs of the PM's because I disconnected twice, but here is a picture of the warning I received. https://gyazo.com/f7838544b2af498b98aeb8ce8fc6b1ae Additional remarks: This Entire warning is untrue and ridiculous. I made no nazi related remarks other than "I wish I was in the Waffen SS" and German quotes like "Arbeit Macht Frei", and "Meine Ehre heißt Treue", these two have a negative reception but they shouldn't. I said "Arbeit Macht Frei" because me and others were posting German quotes in OOC, and this was what I thought of first. I then said "I wish I was in Waffen SS." and "Meine Ehre heißt Treue" which apparently is unacceptable and offends people. Before all this, others were posting links to 'Nazi' music (Which is a completely uninformed and rude statement.) and all I did was post FIVE Lyrics to a marching song called Erika, which is about a girl at home. I was never told to stop before that, but am being told I was. Shortly after I WAS told to stop and I did, but I translated "Meine Ehre heißt Treue" because someone asked me too, so I did. After I translated it, I was muted and told I was getting muted for the rest of the round and was going to be given a warning. I attempted to explain I did nothing, and IJ told me, and I quote, "If you can stop Lawyering that'd be great." When he said this, I completely lost all of my little respect I had left for him at that point. That statement is rude, stupid, and just abusive because he knew that his argument was lacking and false. Now back to the warning, I made 'Nazi' related remarks, which means I posted stuff in OOC of the German language, and quotes related to WWII. It also says I made Hitler remarks ICly, which IS ENTIRELY FALSE. I was the Virologist that round, and sat in my lab trying to do my work without Disks (Which Virology needs) and ultimately failed once I had no way to save the diseases. I never talked over the radio, other then over general asking Science for Disks, and telling Safiya Isra in Medical that the genetics disk she gave me didn't work with my machines and I left it outside her Lab. Saying I reportedly made Hitler remarks is a joke, and a further attempt from IJ to get me in trouble/make him sound correct. I hope the fellow players read this complaint with a open mind and I encourage them to comment and ask questions regarding the situation.

Ckey/BYOND Username: spacevoidagent Position Being Applied For (coder, mapper, spriter): Coder Past Experiences/Knowledge: • Coder for another SS13 Server, I can't recall the name, but was staff for a few months (2-3) before they shut down for private reasons. • Intermediate Knowledge of the JavaScript Language • Basic Knowledge of Python • Intermediate Knowledge of DM/BYOND Code. (I could learn alot more.) • Master Knowledge of QBASIC. (Hell Yeah.) Examples of Past Work: I'm applying on my phone right now, but a few days ago I did some code for a Radio Host Job, I'm sure someone could vouch. I have also made numerous custom items like Energy Spears, Axes, and Pocket Knives. I would also someday like to implement a new game mode or event generator. Preferred Mode of Communication (Skype, Steam, etc.): Skype, Steam, Teamspeak Additional Comments: I'm applying because I'd like to help code, as I know the server could use it. I also can do some mapping, but recently, whenever I try to map Dream Maker crashes. Also, I know I have a somewhat bad reputation with the admin staff, but I hope that doesn't effect this application and I am looked at fairly.