Mwahahahaha

Seemed fine on my end since forever when it came to the chat. Or just about anywhere outside of SQL.

The suggestion with sutures isn't just about scars and recovery times. What do we think about having alterations with gauzes (bruise packs?) and distinction between gauzes and sutures? What about as a replacement for the cautery, with the cautery going to R&D? Your responses about scars: were they to do with sutures, or the cautery scars as mentioned in OP? What about the proposed mechanic regarding stitches/scars reopening if they sprint? I presume this could be under the circumstances where the patient has already been discharged?

In the meantime, do you think some sort of mechanic to allow dethralling should be added in? Just trying to think around with different angles for a moment: adding a prompt may still be out of a situation where one is essentially forced to accept, only now they've officially given their consent. How much choice should a player really have when we're talking about a process called enthralling, committed by (what may be; someone might have a different narrative, of course) occult being? How does this choice compare with other things that a player may be 'forced' to do, such as being borged, debrained, infected with a (deadly and unnerfed) disease, or even killed? Would dethralling help if it comes to someone feeling like they would be forced to accept anyways, prompt or no prompt? Do you think the potential consequences of adding such a mechanic (e.g., metaknowledge behaviour) could be handled (e.g., moderator advising) if they weigh up against adding it?

I personally find it a little bit of a small shame whenever someone would rather not, if only because I feel like it’s a good opportunity to get creative and perhaps even to learn something. But, of course, there’s the question of even enforcing this as a mechanic rather than its current “fluff form” (bearing in mind my earlier points regarding current attitudes towards this). I do want to raise the question though as to what different people find fun. I just want to pose for consideration: have you ever tried it a little more with some elements added in such as, again, recovery time, pain, side effects of certain substances or injuries? An alternative would be to go back to doing what you effectively always get to do every single round. It might be an opportunity to try something new — but I’m not saying it’s a must. @Marlon Phoenix What are your thoughts on sutures and surgery mishaps, if I might ask? Notwithstanding their contributions to recovery time.

I know this is starting to deviate a little from the suggestion here, but what if say, hypothetically speaking, they added the ability to kick people as an attack while they’re handcuffed (I think this might’ve also been suggested at some point in the past)? Do you think it should just be limited to kicking items, or maybe would that be pushing things and seem unbelievable in terms of the in-universe? What would be a possible IC explanation for having one not be able to kick another person, otherwise? Or would this be overthinking things

Cool stuff! listen i got my priorities ok All right! Fair enough. To this one would probably say that it makes it easier and reduces the risk, but you've elaborated some more with things like flight pattern depending on the weight/size (w_class) and a timer. That might satisfy someone in the gameplay balancing department but I mean I don't really speak for them. So... Maybe someone else can offer more from there that I haven't been able to. woaw waht is this shaolin soccer And of course, indeed, I suppose you could say that it wouldn't really be effective in terms of an offensive tactic when much more viable methods are available. A number of the arguments I've been trying to bring up to mind stem from this archived suggestion from years back where, iirc, someone had a the idea of being able to use rod-like items (baseball bats, stun batons) to bat a thrown item out of the way/back to its sender if the person has Throw Mode switched on. A lot of the feedback though was concerned about what would effectively be a batting outbreak where everyone takes to the streets batting everything out of the way once everyone catches on that you can do this as a power tactic (I'm massively paraphrasing and generalising, of course). Now PERSONALLY, I wouldn't mind seeing this implemented at all, simply because it can be done. It's doable. A person can kick things. I think there'll just be concerns with how if this feature gets implemented, you'll get (at least for a temporary period) a whole bunch of people running around kicking stuff and trying to find ways to kick ass and whatever — might be seen as ridiculous, but I mean that kinda happens to just about everything here. So one could say. Aforementioned suggestion about batting: And regarding these questions: What would be some thoughts on this?

iiiii freakin lovEEEE being hospitalised, no joke. A relatively similar thread has been brought up before regarding an extension of recovery times, but there are some nifty ideas going on here. Now, I want to address recovery times first: What I tend to do is basically extend my own characters' recovery times on the injury and it does allow me to get a bit of freedom in figuring out what would happen that the mechanics can't cover (either because they simply don't or because attempting to do so may end up inhibiting one's options). This is done purely through fluff. Take note that this is very much an argument that could be made by one to say something like "well you can do this with fluff anyways so why force people to do this when they don't want to while the people who want to do it can do it" However, I'd also like to point out that in my experiences, people generally kinda tend to be a lot more focused on the mechanics and this very often results in someone going "wow your are fine 100% healthy stop being a drama queen" and then they boot you out into the gutter. Maybe the solution to that is a mechanical one, maybe the solution is sociological. It's up in the air and often debated with many different perspectives. Okay. The other thing is that there are people, as have been argued in that other thread, who don't like "being taken out of the game for 40 minutes while [their] doctor erps with the nurse" (paraphrased). I have my own thoughts on that but I'd be interested to hear someone else's. I DO want to acknowledge though that you seem to be trying to introduce some alternatives or workarounds that people can take, as with the sutures vs cautery. I think I should bring up the question as to how our cauteries actually work, considering in real life they're used in slightly different circumstances and often for kinda different functions (as I understand it right now). It's usually not a good idea to try and 'burn' your skin to seal a wound together, as, well, it's a burn. You're actually damaging the tissue. We are evidently not made of plastic or metal which you can melt together. Burns often mean infection risk. BUT: it is a pretty popular trope used in fiction, and rule of cool alone is often more than enough reason to include something and this is 25th century sci-fi or something so one could say 'whatever'. In any case. Sutures. Do you think there could be different types? Do you think staples are worth adding into the fray? Would the differences be mostly marginal as to be considered fluff, or do you think there could be mechanics in mind? Do they work like stacks (as with bruise packs, ointment, splints)? Do keep in mind as well that often, the server sees on average somewhere between 2–3 hours worth of round time. That's actually a pretty nice lengthy time but to many, that's probably not very long at all. I personally don't mind being a 'useless wounded person who's being dramatic' for the rest of the shift if it means I can drive something and I'd love to know if that somehow benefits someone else's experience — but I know that others would probably be in for a rush to try and get things done before the round's end. Indeed, there's always next round to keep doing stuff, but to that I imagine people would say that some don't have enough time to play more than one round on that day. This, weighed up with the fact that said person was literally shot like 8 times with a .700 Nitro Express or something exploding bullets in the face. or something. Or you know, just getting shot 10 times in the chest with any penetrating projectile period. Whatever. One may also bring up as an argument that, again, it's the 25th century and woah advanced medical technology we're so everyone can get back on their feet in 10 seconds as fit as a cute baby piglet. Personally though I feel like this might inhibit some room for creativity there, but that's all subjective. I'd be interested to understand what you have in mind in response, if that's all right.

complete mastery over all things signature such power i have never before witnessed!!!!!!! I suppose that's true enough. Think the current non-Unicode state might have anything to do with it? I mean I'm not knowledged enough with this so a Because if it is, I am aware that there's update 513 coming up which aims to rectify that to some capacity. Which might also be something worth taking into consideration if this ever gets implemented.

Right, but what I mean is the inverse: what stops someone from ALWAYS choosing wristblades given the option of having a tactical knife instead? Would it say, at least, cost different materials? Maybe the in-universe is that they're more complicated to use? Do you think those catches would be enough?

oh I know that one Yeah. New thing comes out and then everyone flocks. Indeed, initially there may more people coming for it. But will it stick in the long run? We had things like integrated electronics, telescience itself, telecomms, mecha, mecha crashing, new cargo, barista, corporate reporters, contractors, offworlders, IPCs/shells, null rods, on and on and on. Perhaps some might have stuck 'better' more than others, but, that's perhaps getting quite subjective. I could ask you about how you'd see this going once the novelty dies down a bit, if you will, but I imagine one at this point could feel that this wouldn't really be going anywhere if I did. By all means feel free to indulge, though. and perhaps so, but... forgive me if I might've misunderstood here, it's just that couldn't you also say that such a variance from that normality could be welcomed? I mean, a lot of people right now feel like having those "RP-heavy roles" (I mean, personally, I feel like all roles should technically be RP (however that's even defined, at this stage) no matter what given the server tag, but...) are "pointless" and would love to see there being more mechanical implementation to make them "more useful".

Righto! But if we had things like tactical knives in the list of options there, what stops someone from just always choosing this option? Differences in stats like damage, maybe? Attack rate? You could argue antag-knowledge again (I'm aware of your notion to make them available to non-antags) but I mean at this point they're both there on what's effectively, arguably (feel free to disagree), a 3D printer. In any case, what makes an person (who knows how to hack an autolathe and find the appropriate, desirable designs on there) choose tactical knives over wrist blades?

Okay, so, with this in mind, do you still feel that adding some sort of mechanical ability for a chaplain to dethrall someone will lead to a sharp increase in metagaming situations revolving around the chaplain getting involved? Mind you, I'm not asking because you have to change your stance now or anything.

I can definitely see that being a concern and I can see that happening as with many OTHER things. Just out of mild curiosity, though: regarding the chaplain's CURRENT advantages over vampires (and cultists and wizards), how often do you find one being played up in response to such a type of antagonist, particularly as a countermeasure against their tactics? Assuming you consider their current advantages to be powerful enough to begin with. hopefully people won't now catch onto that potential revelation and create aforementioned metagame situations

excuse me for sounding like a big company tech support here but for what it's worth, I'm sorry to hear that you (presumably) had to go through a crappy experience just recently (and over time) with enthralling. Indeed, enthralling doesn't seem to give anyone an option and this can lead to similar situations as, actually, to instances of cult rounds reported in the past where someone is essentially forcefully placed in the position of an antagonist. That in itself may be a whole can of worms that's worth looking at from different perspectives with upsides and downsides and maybe even certain expectations that certain people believe everyone else should follow with those. Now, being enthralled differs slightly from dominate in the sense that as far as the game's concerned, you've officially been given antagonist status. What that actually does I can't really say for sure, though I'd imagine there would be some room for chaplain involvement (though I don't think there's anything in the code related to dethralling a thrall outside of making them a fully fledged vampire). This may not really be considered a major factor, though, I imagine, against what you have in mind. OH MISTUH J WHAT WOULD'YA HAVE ME DO, MY SWEET PUDDIN' and then you get a shirtless super gothic long hair vampire lord/lady/dog/whatever just sat on the throne, thralls by their sides, reciting edgar allan poe I'm guessing it's probably something along those lines. Or like, AOOC: ok lets kill em Or whatever it is. But, I do want to say — and I know how easy it is to say this so sorry if i piss you off But I want to bring into consideration that it might have to do with how we communally view what a thrall 'is meant to do', if we even ever expect anything of them. There are quite a few things in the game which can be 'abused' or have 'poor form' but for one reason or another we (arguably) succeed in avoiding them, on the most part. I take it by 'abuse', you get vampires just running up and straight-off-the-bat opting to use this as the best option to minimise resistance to their goals? Could it be said that MAYBE we aren't really thinking in different directions to how we can use a thrall to create a narrative piece, and as such a (hopefully) compelling round? I mean, I don't know about you, but there are fun things to be had in a lot of things that are usually considered unfun — but I'm just an individual. So, for example, some people would absolutely KILL to be put in an antagonist position when they haven't at roundstart. Make of that what you will. I think the idea of having thralls is that it revolves around this idea of total domination and occult influence over another being. It's often seen in fiction, though of course you have cited how other abilities can still reflect this theme. HOWEVER: being forced into a position of antagonist so suddenly can indeed throw so many people off, and may not be a pleasurable. I do, firstly, implore one to consider how you'd be selectively picking out what moments you want to engage in and perhaps consider trying a "Yes, and..." way of thinking — you would be surprised at how something shitty can turn out to be pretty great if you give it a shot. BUT, I understand that not everyone will want to do that what with how this is a game and all that, and if you don't really want to do that at all period then okay, no-one should force you. I do want to express how it's admirable of you to ask people on LOOC first, so kudos to you and anyone who does that. Likewise, it can be argued that split-second antagonist-status can negatively impact the narrative or flow of a round simply because one isn't quite, for one reason or another, prepared to jump in like that. Nor may they have the time to even soak in anything a vampire player had in mind. But maybe that's also where fun can be had. Improvisation. It's a skill one develops and I can tell you first-hand that it's entirely possible for someone to find a lot more fun that way as you develop. In the meantime, The feature where there's time to get away is pretty nifty, but there may or may not be some dead ringers towards how cult conversion is (currently?) implemented: if someone denies, what you now end up with (as it currently stands with people's general, 'typical' behaviours) is a Piper Perri situation where they're now surrounded by all these cultists (or just one cultist) who know their quarry has refused. The feature is handy for a vampire who intends on being sh-sh and slinking away like Nosferatu, but what is our stance towards vampires who've managed/been allowed to achieve Underworld Viktor status where they're coyly sitting on a throne presiding over their new domain? i.e., aforementioned cultist situation where they don't run away. In that instance, you might also get a few issues with people fighting about how X was a fool idiot bad sportsperson and didn't accept like the coward where they would've just believably buckled to the power of a dark lord being, and Y was a dumbpoopy pants because they tried to force something they didn't want on them (which is still what we would have now, I guess). But that's worst case scenario. More but: I suppose that might help to maybe reduce that potentially perceived mindset where the antagonist player is always vying for the best thing, now that there's a potential chance for it failing? But of course, playing to win in a server designated as 'HRP' is/was arguably considered to be frowned upon by most; though of course, that sort of mindset can be hard to truly prove as well.

This is actually something I once did on my sandbox server years ago. As you suggested, I did make it essentially work in the same way a ninja's energy blade would (changelings didn't have armblades and shields and the like back then) and it yeah I mean it's doable not2brag not2brag i didn't make it an accessory though that that's pretty smart. I made it a nanoimplant instead, back when those still existed. Would the aforementioned verb be associated with clicking on the uniform, similar to holsters? Just to consider possible conflicts with holsters and storage accessories. Might also be consideration to have it as those HUD shortcuts but some may have complaints about that in its current state, as I've heard. I have a few questions (out of interest): You mentioned it would be a much more low-tech example so perhaps we can't expect to see some sophisticated blade penetrating action and advanced retraction mechanisms. How would a character 'sheathe' the blade? Did you have in mind that they were going to push it back, there's some sort of say, spring stop which conforms to the shape of the blade? With this in mind, do you think that whenever you get knocked over, they should retract automatically? If not, we might have to consider a wider scope in which mechanics are available to allow people to hold onto items while lying down — circumstances depending, of course. Do you think this should require machinery to create? Such as the autolathe? Or can it be made with 'raw' material stacks? Also, and maybe someone can contest this, but I feel like there's an observation which can be perceived in which while it's generally acceptable (~~~~~) for a changeling to walk up to someone and sting them, one could say there's a little bit more stigma when it comes to a person walking up to someone and then whipping out a weapon from their pockets and attacking them with it. In such an instance, how do you, in your ideals, think a player/character (depending on your perspective) use a hidden blade in a way that would be considered as "acceptable RP"? I feel like at some point, someone MIGHT bring up a perception that everyone (with regards to the notion that this should be an antag-knowledge-only thing) is suddenly relying on these things. Of course, this might start to drift more into a general 'wider' community issue thing that's dealt with mods. But I thought I'd just try to ask, if that's okay. Quite interesting! What did you have in mind? Do you think it should be constructed as the whole weapon, or should it be composed of parts? If the latter, do you think 'raw' material stack constructions should play a part in the crafting process? Another thing. Do you think there'll be some room for there to be more high-tech versions, what with the existence of a low-tech version? One caveat with making them available for science weapons research is that it might conflict with the idea of making this an antag-knowledge-only thing. Now maybe you could argue that it should thus be part of the illegal tech tree, but as it stands right now, even that's obtainable under any circumstances, antag/admin involvement or not.