Bygonehero Posted July 3, 2018 Posted July 3, 2018 Humans have a keen kinesthetic sense, with biological mechanisms such as asthenia and muscle fatigability giving us a keen awareness of our bodies limits. Allowing proper management of fatigue. Believe it or not, many animals do not have this ability. Humans are the best endurance runners irl, and the best in our lore. I think only humans should see a stamina bar to reflect this.
Kaed Posted July 3, 2018 Posted July 3, 2018 Because everyone else that isn't human is an animal and is incapable of realizing their own bodies limits and is incapable of realizing their own bodies limits? I'm sorry, but this is absolutely an idea that would make the game worse for non humans. Unathi can run for like 5 seconds before becoming exhausted, without some way to trace it you'd constantly exhaust yourself. This is also a game, and you have to be able to track your statistics in a game.
Bygonehero Posted July 3, 2018 Author Posted July 3, 2018 Shortness of breath, indeed being tired is not the same as muscle fatigue or asthenia and there is no argument from me for aliens not having some method of telling they are beyond their limits. They can tell such when they start taking halloss. The problem occurs when people hedge their stamina bar, so as to never empty it but never fill it. I believe limiting this ability to humans would further indicate what is already reflected in lore and code, that they are the best endurance runners.
Kaed Posted July 3, 2018 Posted July 3, 2018 No, sorry. This is still removing standardized features from all of the other races for the sake of a single tiny questionably valid assertion (that only humans can possess asthenia). It doesn't add or improve anything. It doesn't even address imbalance in the game. It's just changing something for the sake of trying to reinforce the concept that is already reinforced by the mechanics in place. Humans will remain the best long distance runners even if the other races continue to have a stamina bar. It makes life suck a little more for everyone who's not a human with no real payoff to recompensate.
Bygonehero Posted July 3, 2018 Author Posted July 3, 2018 No, sorry. This is still removing standardized features from all of the other races for the sake of a single tiny questionably valid assertion (that only humans can possess asthenia). It doesn't add or improve anything. It doesn't even address imbalance in the game. It's just changing something for the sake of trying to reinforce the concept that is already reinforced by the mechanics in place. Humans will remain the best long distance runners even if the other races continue to have a stamina bar. It makes life suck a little more for everyone who's not a human with no real payoff to recompensate. Except, this is not the case. A tajara will outrun a human if they hedge their stamina bar. A unathi will outrun a human if they hedge their stamina bar. Even a Warrior Vaurca will outrun a human if they hedge their stamina bar. Hedging the stamina bar is the real-life equivalent of managing fatigue. Because the stamina bar exists, humans are NOT the best endurance runners, even though they have the most stamina. Endurance running is more than one's capability to take fatigue. Indeed, it also includes one's ability to manage the accumulation of it. The fact that all races currently with a stamina bar can manage it just as well as a human defeats the purpose of these mechanical differences in the first place. IPCS do not have stamina bars and they are fine. Dionae do not have stamina bars, and they are fine. It is not a critical mechanic, it is one that can and should be regulated.
Sytic Posted July 3, 2018 Posted July 3, 2018 Maybe just make toggling on and off running take stamina for those races. It'd make sense.
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted July 3, 2018 Posted July 3, 2018 Unathi have the fastest sprint in the game, and Tajara have the fastest base speed. But humans have the highest stamina. Humans are endurance hunters, and can chase down any of our aliens. Once Tajara take any hit to their speed they are unable to regain their speed by sprinting. And sprinting for Tajara lowers their base walk speed when they use up any stamina at all. Unathi are ambush predators. Saying they can outrun humans is disingenious. Unathi will definately sprint faster than a human, but the Unathi will quickly become exhausted, losing the race. The Unathi sprint is meant to close the distance, not chase anyone. Humans have the longest sustained stamina and can maintain high speeds. With determination, a human character can sprint for such long periods that would exhaust other aliens. As a xeno player I have tried to flee humans hunting me and they are always hot on my tail. Like prey animals in the hundreds of thousands of years of endurance hunting, we can just keep jogging until our prey dies of exhaustion. This is reflected in the mechanics. I find our sprinting to be very balanced, and puts across both strategic combat styles for each race (where Tajara are the best for kiting, humans are the best for constant mobility, unathi have the best CQC ability for quick ambushes, etc) All of our races are just as aware of their own bodies and physiology as humans are. The difference is in physical ability, not kinesthetic sense.
Kaed Posted July 3, 2018 Posted July 3, 2018 Except, this is not the case. A tajara will outrun a human if they hedge their stamina bar. A unathi will outrun a human if they hedge their stamina bar. Even a Warrior Vaurca will outrun a human if they hedge their stamina bar. Hedging the stamina bar is the real-life equivalent of managing fatigue. Because the stamina bar exists, humans are NOT the best endurance runners, even though they have the most stamina. Endurance running is more than one's capability to take fatigue. Indeed, it also includes one's ability to manage the accumulation of it. The fact that all races currently with a stamina bar can manage it just as well as a human defeats the purpose of these mechanical differences in the first place. IPCS do not have stamina bars and they are fine. Dionae do not have stamina bars, and they are fine. It is not a critical mechanic, it is one that can and should be regulated. Nooooo. Good lord, this is factually incorrect. I can't speak for tajarans and vaurca, but I can definitely speak both for unathi and the fact that I know you are not unathi whitelisted, so you probably don't have experience there. So here's the scoop on the lizards. Unathi can run very fast for several seconds. Their fatigue bar taps out so quickly that it is basically only useful as lunge at someone in your immediate vicinity, not actually a run function. It does not regenerate any faster than anyone else. An unathi will never, ever catch up to any other running character beyond the extremely short term, no matter how much you hedge the stamina bar. Similarly, it is useless for fleeing, because what happens is you zoom out of their vision range, and then a few second laters, you're exhausted, and they jog up to you a few moments later, barely winded. I should also point out that the speed which your stamina bar runs out is so fast that you can actively harm yourself by not being able to see it. It updates and runs out faster than your lifetick updates your visible health status, as an unathi. In the couple seconds it can take you to notice that you are taking oxy and haloss, you may already have almost passed yourself out. edit: jackboot said some stuff too bout non unathi.
Mofo1995 Posted July 4, 2018 Posted July 4, 2018 Tajara are endurance runners but terrible sprinters. The whole idea is that they move quickly by default but if they over-exert themself by trying to sprint, they're going to become all around slower. The idea is that they're just supposed to be quick-walking/slow jogging all over the place because it's natural to them, but actual sprints don't greatly improve their speed, and quickly gives them side stitches. Much like our ancestors in the ice age, they would chase prey for long periods of time across the frozen countryside. But unlike humans, since Adhomai is still far colder than Earth today, their bodies are even more minmaxed into paced out expenditure of energy over bursts of it. How feasible is all of this? I have no clue! I'm largely unlearned in biology, but that's how it was pitched and largely foisted onto me before I was thoroughly talked into it. P.S. I think Tajara being able to gauge their own body limits carefully is kind of important given the circumstances the environmental circumstances they have to survive through on their homeworld.
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