[Resolved] Player Complaint - Bath Salts Addict

[Kaed]

BYOND Key: Kaedwuff

Game ID: I'm not sure, the game ID is missing from the discord listings.

Player Byond Key: Bath Salts Addict

Staff involved: N/A

Reason for complaint: I'll keep this short and to the point, and I should point out that I'm.. not sure which character I played during this round. I think it might have been a one-off unathi character I deleted, because I don't see them on my long list of characters? (let this be a warning to people to do player complaints soon after a round) Anyway. During this round, I played a traitor. Me and another traitor (Shawn Carson, I believe) met each other breaking into the vault, and began working together. I ended up taking the unathi officer Kesan (I think?) hostage, and using her as a handcuffed body shield for pretty much the rest of the round. At some point, me and Carson came out of maintenance next to the main floor cryo below medical, still toting my hostage, and Carson had a icelance rifle to watch us. This is where the trouble started. Noir, who had until we arrived been in a cryo bed suddenly popped out and began talking to us (I have no evidence that it was a gank tactic, but from some of their behavior I suspect it may have been). Carson aimed a the icelance at him and after a short conversation (with a hostage in plain sight, in my grasp, I might add) fired several shots at Noir. Considering those rifles have three shots and it is not nearly enough to kill an IPC, I assume it was intended to ward him away. Instead, Noir immediately pulled out his pistol and emptied the entire clip of it into Carson at point blank range, until he was horizontal on the floor. I made an attempt to rescue Carson, but since I already had a hand grabbing Kesan, and dragging him made his injuries worse, I was forced to abandon him as I backed down the hall and went into maintenance. Noir followed me the entire way like some kind of terminator, only breaking off pursuit when the officer I had hostage told him to not be stupid.

At this point, the emergency shuttle had already been called, and I decided to cut my losses by heading for an escape pod. I manage to get all the way up to the top floor of the command deck when all the elevator doors were bolted and powered down, and who should show up at the scene seconds later but NOIR, who had apparently been hunting me down this entire time. The self-promoted HoP and a few others with guns showed up soon after, and the round ended before we could resolve the hostage situation with me in the elevator, but it feels to me like BSA went above and beyond the duties of a detective to attack during a hostage situation and relentlessly hunt down the antagonist. I didn't have access to security chatter in this round, I admit, but the timing of his arrival after I reached the top floor was too quick for him to have been doing anything else other than following direct AI instructions as to my location. I'm not sure how long it takes to climb up the ladders from the main floor to the surface level in the bridge, but he might have even been in the maintenance area heading upstairs before I even entered the elevator. The main floor elevator door had been bolted open, so maybe they were trying to force me to go through maintenance into a trap? Having not been party to communications, I can only speculate as to what caused them to be there so soon, but this is mostly about Noir's valid-hunty behavior in this round.

Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? At the time, I was under the assumption that this behavior was par for the course for detectives. I have recently been advised that it is not supposed to be, so made this complaint.

Approximate Date/Time: 11/23/2018, ~7-9pm CST

[TheSleepyCatmom]

Noir was AFK during the round and got popped into a cryo casket. I can attest to this as I was also security, and talking to him on discord at the time which he validated after the round ended. Carson aimed at him after popping out of the cryo casket from what was said to me, and I'm more prone to believe the person who told me this rather than a secondary testimony that doesn't match it.

 

Noir was also a traitor, as was I. We were doing a 'Film Noir' gimmick which included him as a main plot point. We even killed off CrystalClear to make it work and find the body. The reason Noir (who was a Security Officer, and not a Detective this round) had a magnum, was because he got it from his uplink. Everyone upstairs was an antagonist, by the way. We were all armed to the teeth and ready to take you down, just none of us had a crowbar, because Noir got looted.

 

He wasn't a detective, he wasn't valid-hunting as we were just following our 'Get the bad guy' gimmick (which we got one of them, we didn't plan for two because you didn't speak in AOOC at all during the entire course of us planning the gimmick, or at any point during the round.). The complaint, from my perspective, doesn't really have all the facts. Hence my comment here. Hopefully this clears a few things up at least. I PM'd the link to this to BSA as well, so he can say his piece.

Edited November 28, 2018 by TheSleepyCatmom

[Kaed]

Oh, he was an antag? Alright, I guess never mind then! You're right, I didn't have all the facts.  I guess we can dismiss this complaint.

Though, to be fair.  Noir also made zero attempt to communicate he was an antagonist. We shouldn't have to rely on AOOC for this.  And I suppose I also am dubious of someone playing an 'anti-antag' gimmick during traitor, but I guess there's no rule that you can't do that.

Edited November 28, 2018 by Kaed

[Faris]

I'll leave this open for a bit. I'd like @Bath Salts Addict to clarify on @Kaed latest comment. Perhaps insight on their antagonist actions can bring a better perspective to their actions.

[Bath Salts Addict]

I did make a few comments in AOOC when I got mid-round traitor, which I'm not sure if you missed or not. You must have known what my OOC handle was since I don't see anyone asking around the Discord about who plays Noir. At that point I think you and Carson were already openly hostile as well.

I unfortunately had to AFK for a bit, and when I came back I was stripped and in cryo of all my gear and weaponry (I was a sec officer that round, not a detective) and all I had was the traitor .357 I bought from the uplink. The exact moment I come back, Carson is standing there with your character and the hostage, and aims the ice lance at me (for the sake of clarity I'll refer to our in character actions as 'you' and 'I') and tells me to get on the ground. Obviously not wanting to lose a very powerful traitor item and my only real remaining line of defense, I kept Carson talking until he made the decision to shoot me. I don't know what an icelance is, or what it's supposed to do ideally to an organic target, but naturally it did little to an IPC other than cause some burn damage. It was at this point I evaluated the situation. The Warden did, indeed, seem armed to the teeth but you with your hostage seemed to have nothing in the way of weaponry, and had nothing out. I play my cards right, and Carson starts shooting. I tank the shots and take him down, much to his chagrin in LOOC. I honestly had no real intentions of stopping Carson or you, and would have went cracking with my own devices. That was the plan at least, until the Warden made the fatal mistake of trying to take me hostage and shooting me.

Unfortunately, as his accomplice, you were also guilty by association.

Seeing as you had no weapons that I knew of, or at the least none that you were willing to whip out, I gave a close follow up until library maintenance, in which the hostage tried to warn me off. I was still deciding at this point whether traitor!Noir would care about the hostage's life or not, ultimately I decided the former since I tend to be a heartless renegade far too often. So I peel off, and with Carson dead and the rest of security reporting the departures wing clear, I figure the next logical move for you to make is to try to make for an escape pod (you did state your intentions to escape, if I recall correctly) so I went to the Bridge. You beat me, somehow, but I caught you coming out of the elevator on the top floor after the AI told me where you were. You were trapped in the elevator with your hostage, with the rest of Security - most of whom were also traitors strangely enough I think - squishing their greasy little faces against the doors ready to pummel the daylights out of you as soon as they opened on my word. Towards the end, yes, I did ask the AI to open the elevator doors to resolve the situation, but the server rebooted at that last moment. I was pretty confident that we could have rescued the hostage with minimal harm and have taken you down non-lethally. Why?

Because you had yet to brandish a weapon. At all. To my knowledge your hands were empty except for the one holding the hostage. Now, I'm not entirely sure how police are supposed to operate in a hostage situation, but to me common sense dictates that when a hostage taker becomes unreasonable and refuses to realize that they're trapped and have no real way out, and there is a very present risk of said hostage taker trying to abscond with their hostage, both possibly never to be seen again, then that is the time for action and not words. At that point, all 3-4 of us could have rushed you and beat you down with no risk posed.

And when said hostage taker fails to show them actually being able to make do on their threat, and is most likely unarmed? You better believe an ass whooping is in store.

[Bath Salts Addict]

Also, I'm not sure how much more communication you need when someone whips out a .357 and guns down your buddy in front of you, and then proceeds to hunt you to hell and back.

Edited November 28, 2018 by Bath Salts Addict

[Kaed]

35 minutes ago, Bath Salts Addict said:

Also, I'm not sure how much more communication you need when someone whips out a .357 and guns down your buddy in front of you, and then proceeds to hunt you to hell and back.

You say that, and I'm sure it makes pretty good sense, except:

-I was not reading the attack logs, and often rarely read them in general, because I am focused on other things in combat like actually looking at the combat going on in the playing field (and it also kind of feels like a soft metagame to read attack logs and know exactly what someone is shooting at you when I highly doubt your character would look closely at a gun being fired in your direction beyond what is coming out of it and determining the make and model of it immediately and them making determinations on the legality of their gun in split seconds)

-Noir is always a detective when I see him, so upon seeing him, I made the assumption he was a detective again

-Noir fired some kind of pistol weapon at Carson, therefore that cemented to me that he was a detective, because I know detectives have pistols.

You should communicate with words rather than assuming people will instantly know the status of your antaggery based on the kind of gun you are holding during a firefight, if you want people to know.   Also, the hunting to hell and pistol thing was pretty much what I expect of detectives.  I do not have a high opinion of the job role or more specifically the mindset of people who play them.  (Whether that is a wrong assumption is I guess up for debate)

I guess it's also worth noting that I had a fire axe in my hands during the end bit and was threatening to use it on the hostage.  I was in the middle of typing out a /me of holding it against her neck when the round reset.  Le shrug!

Edited November 28, 2018 by Kaed

[Kaed]

Additional side note: I picked up the fireaxe myself from the bridge to open the blast doors just before getting on the elevator.  I did not, in fact, have any traitor weapons, because I spent my points first on getting captain level access with a traitor ID, and then, after breaking into the vault and grabbing the TC's, a syndie borg which got ion EMP'd to death within 5 seconds of entering combat.  AFTER having been emp'd to death and ghosting from his previous hacked borg body two minutes prior.  Siiiigh.  

Poor FROST/FROSTBITE.  Can't wait for that ion nerf, amirite.  Getting off topic now, though.

[ShameOnTurtles]

@Kaed
This seems to have fallen through the cracks a little bit. It looks like the situation resulting in this complaint had some miscommunication in it, but I don't think with the information here any administrative action should be applied. Do you have any other concerns that you want addressed, by @Bath Salts Addict or myself?

[Kaed]

Since he was an antagonist, he was within his rights to shoot anyone he wanted, so yeah.  This complaint was made on the assumption I was the only antag involved.

[ShameOnTurtles]

Alrighty. Locking and archiving.