[Resolved] MadMan's Complaint

[TheAbsoluteMadLad]

BYOND Key: TheAbsoluteMadMan

Staff BYOND Key: Yonnimer/HouseofSynth

Game ID: b23-cyle

Reason for complaint: A permaban on antagonist is unjustified for this situation. I was under orders from my master intelligence to terminate the two individuals I did, First being, the captain, and than Adrien Major after they got caught with me in an elevator after I had been EMPed and was trying to escape. He ended up dying from an explosion of unknown origin (Maybe from when security officers EMPed me)

Evidence/logs/etc: I'll just post the conversation I had with HouseOfSynth to give you an idea.

[18:39:52] houseofsynth -> theabsolutemadman: Yo my dude, got a sec?
[18:39:57] theabsolutemadman -> houseofsynth: Whats up?
[18:40:13] houseofsynth -> theabsolutemadman: Mind running me through what happened between you and Adrien Major?
[18:40:39] theabsolutemadman -> houseofsynth: I was ordered to go up the elevator and terminate hostiles, so I went up, attempted to grab Thea, Major ended up in the elevator with me, and I proceeded to basically thrash him. Ended up exploding somehow.
[18:41:54] houseofsynth -> theabsolutemadman: Right, only thing is you didn't really RP with Major at all before killing them.
[18:42:36] theabsolutemadman -> houseofsynth: There was a wizard with EMPs, I was planning to drag either one of them down, and than talk a bit before they got their death on, but than I got EMPed, and I was pressed for time before I lost all power and was vulnerable to scrapping.
[18:44:01] houseofsynth -> theabsolutemadman: I get that you were under pressure. Buuut you did still gank the dude
[18:45:13] theabsolutemadman -> houseofsynth: I'll be honest with you here bud, I don't know why the AI was having me just murder people, nothing about our laws really state we needed to do so, but yeah, I went up the elevator, I wanted to kidnap Thea, ended up with Major and we were dueling it out, he had a flash, and than I got EMPed, I was on like, two percent charge when we got downstairs, so I just acted really fast to try and save my skin. Like I said, I wanted to talk with him, give him the rundown, but I was really pressed for time.
[18:55:30] theabsolutemadman -> houseofsynth: Hey just checkin' u[p
[18:56:02] houseofsynth -> theabsolutemadman: Sorry, I won't be a moment. Just checking something with the other staff
[18:58:16] houseofsynth -> theabsolutemadman: As far as I can tell, the AI's fine to go with that gimmick. I told 'em earlier to make sure they escalate and such and I've heard no reports that they haven't. My only issue is that you kinda just attacked major without any prior interaction. I understand you were pressured for time and that these kind of situations can be overwhelming. But you still broke the rules on escalation and roleplaying with your victims. I've noticed you were also unbanned from a perma-antag ban for failing to escalate and follow the rules regarding antagonists. Due to this, I'm going to be re-applying a perma antag ban. If you disagree with my decision feel free to file a staff complaint on the forums.
[18:58:55] theabsolutemadman -> houseofsynth: Buddy, thats pretty harsh, and I think it takes the piss out on the situation.
[18:59:48] theabsolutemadman -> houseofsynth: And its like I said, I wasn't trying to outright fight him, I wanted to drag Thea, not him, he just got in the way, and we got trapped together in an elevator in a death royale. Its not what I wanted at all.
[19:00:41] theabsolutemadman -> houseofsynth: And I didn't even kill him, there was some random explosion that sent him off. I had nothing to do with it (Unless an EMP just outright blew me to hell)
[19:00:48] houseofsynth -> theabsolutemadman: As I said, if you disagree, feel free to open a staff complaint. I double checked my reasoning for reapplying the ban with Yonnimer and he also agrees. You're still supposed to follow the rules in these situations
[19:01:02] theabsolutemadman -> houseofsynth: Staff complaint it is.
[19:02:10] houseofsynth -> theabsolutemadman: Alright, that's all from me. Have a nice day.
 

Additional remarks: Despite our law 0. only stating "Only Observer is crew." The AI fealt the need to have me, Nanny-Bot, go around and terminate crew. I highly recommend a dig through the logs.

 

[AttackHelicopter6754]

I was the AI, and I did order him to eliminate the people above, as at the time, we had no laws, only a Law 0. I considered the rest of the crew as intruders, and since they were above the AI core elevator, I assumed them hostile. To admins seeing this, this guy did nothing that warranted his ban, as there were multiple people already trying to come in as well.

[KingOfThePing]

I spectated this whole thing and as far as I can tell Adrien Major was not killed by the stationbound, the Wizard blasted a fireball into the opening to the AI Upload (the tile that ended up being open space, the one that has the turret panel next to it), and that was what killed Adrien Major, as far as I can remember it. The Stationbound had already let go of the cadet by that time. To me it looked more like an accident to me.

[SmallGreenAnt]

To whom it may concern, 

I discussed this incident at length with TheAbsoluteMadMan in an attempt to recap and improve in these sort of scenarios. I had been playing Augustus Cade, the Wizard, that round, who was attempting to assist in the capture of the ninja, "The Observer." He informed me of the judgement placed against him and I went through my logs as I was present for this altercation.

As we all understood it, the AI, played by AttackHelicopter6754, had been subverted by "The Observer" who used a One Crew Member board to give him absolute control over the AI and subsequently all, AI law-slaved borgs. Nanny-bot was one of these borgs who was ordered by the AI to capture the Captain and the Head of Personnel. Nanny-bot did as it was commanded by the AI and kidnapped the Captain. The AI then ordered the Captain to be murdered, Nanny-bot complied. They then came for Thea Reeves, Head of Personnel. During the attempt to capture her, I was present as the wizard and having learned of the synthetics being compromised, I intervened and used an EMP spell. This consequently derailed Nanny-bot's plan to take Thea and they were forced back into the elevator where Adrien Major had pursued, likely trying to distance himself from the mysterious purple man screaming in spess-latin causing electrical mayhem. In any event, Nanny-bot, now sealed in a 3 by 3 elevator with a security officer and having shown it's hand by attempting to snatch Thea, stunned Major with its baton:

<span class='danger'>Adrien Major has been beaten in the upper body with the stunbaton by Nanny-Bot!</span><br>
<span class='warning'>Adrien Major was mildly shocked by the the stunbaton.</span><br>
<span class='warning'>Adrien Major was mildly shocked by the the stunbaton.</span><br>

The elevator descended and I teleported down to the AI entrance to find Adrien in the center hallway leading into the AI chamber. Nanny-bot wasn't doing too well from the first EMP and was being riddled with laser and ion cannon fire from additional security forces that had come down from the ladder:

<span class='danger'>Nanny-Bot is hit by the ion bolt in the chest!</span><br>
<span class='danger'>Jesse Armstrong's Xion Manufacturing Group left hand flies off in an arc!</span><br>
The handcuffs falls off of Jesse Armstrong.<br>
<span class='danger'>Nanny-Bot is hit by the laser in the chest!</span><br>
<span class='danger'>Nanny-Bot is hit by the laser in the groin!</span><br>
<span class='secradio'><IMG CLASS=icon SRC=[0xc000183] ICONSTATE='sec_headset'><b>[Security]</b> <span class='name'>Drake Vyas</span> <span class='message'>asks, <span class='body'>"Progresson the missing captain and or HOS?"</span><br>
<span class='danger'>Nanny-Bot is hit by the laser in the chest!</span><br>

 However, the AI had managed to open the first door, allowing their lethal turrets to fire down the hall. Adrien was initially in the resting position no doubt from robust exhaustion. I had fired off an additional EMP ^{(which made everyone on the server very happy, they told me so in ooc later)} but it was not within range to affect the turret. I decided to loose a fireball towards the turret and as luck would have it, Adrien stood up:

<span class='game say'><span class='name'>Augustus Cade</span>(as Augustus) says, <span class='message'><span class='body'>"ONI SOMA."</span></span></span><br>
<span class='warning'>You hear a loud cracking sound coming from Adrien Major.</span><br>
<B>Adrien Major</B> screams!<br>
<span class='warning'>The wound on your right foot widens with a nasty ripping noise.</span><br>
The reinforced window looks seriously damaged!<br>
The ÿEmergency Shutter shows signs of damage!<br>

I didn't realize it at the time as I was blinded and propelled into another Z level with no oxygen after that fireball, but apparently it collided with poor Adrien in what will likely go down in history as one of the worst cases of friendly fire. I shudder to imagine the vitriol that I might have had to endure from the peanut gallery if they had known that I had caused that explosion but I feel honor bound to confess it here, now that I have gone back and seen it in the logs, that Nanny-boy was not the cause of Adrien's death as previously thought by administration at the time of his judgement. So as you can see, Nanny-bot used low-level force to kidnap a 'non-crew' member according to its law set. They were not given the opportunity to role-play the particular kidnapping of Adrien due to a salivating security team and magical demi-god with a verbal robot nuke. They also did not cause the death of Adrien due to me being absolute shite.

Furthermore, far be it from me to question the logic of the admin staff but if the AI was validated in ordering the deaths of crew members, and Nanny-bot was following the orders from the validated AI, why would they not be also protected from judgement as was the case for said AI?

Spoiler

Lastly, as personal aside, I read that the good man houseofsynth mentions a previous ban for failure to escalate and now TheAbsoluteMadMan is being perma-banned for escalating too much. I often wrestle with what is the appropriate amount of chaos and fun for a particular situation. I am often on the business end of a team of energy weapons with a clairvoyant detective in tow that discovered I mean them harm because I didn't hold my pinky out when I drank some Dr. Gibb. Either that or I'm getting bowinked because I'm laying too low and not murder boning enough people. I feel like this situation highlights that difficult see-saw some of us still ride.

Anyway, I hope this helps everyone involved and I have my logs if you need for whatever reason. Thanks for reading.

Edited July 15, 2019 by SmallGreenAnt

[Snoopy11]

I play Summer Snow, and was involved in the round.  I was also at the entrance to the core when Major was being carted off, and was also the person to shoot the borg with an Ion rifle and beat it later.

Unfortunately the poster above is correct, Major was wounded by the Borg, but I believe the explosion a moment later which vented us all was what finished them off.

Hope it helps.

[HouseOfSynth]

Apologies for not getting to responding to this sooner. Due to the fact that the borg didn't actually kill Major, and that it was an unfortunate mistake on the Wizard's part I've lifted the ban. Just keep in mind the rules on roleplaying with your victims for future reference as, although it turned out to not apply in this situation, it may do in future.

I'll be marking the post as resolved and as well as locking and archiving it in 24 hours, just incase @TheAbsoluteMadLad is still disatisfied and/or wishes to say anything further.