Medbay Lobby Rework/Remap

[Jamini]

Let's talk the Aurora medical lobby!

There are a lot of things I like about your map here. Engineering in particular looks quite good, and science (minus access issues to telescience) has a fairly nice layout. However, one area on your map that really, really bugs me is the medical lobby. It feels small, cramped, and not terribly usable. The current desk is tiny, there is almost no seating, and the emergency entrance is close enough to the main entrance to be redundant. Some other parts of medical the area near the lobby are, conversely, too large for their function. chemistry and the recovery ward immediately springing to mind.

After toying around in dreammaker a bit, I came up with the following (extremely rough) concept for a small rework of the fore areas of medical:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/so49n6yjgbil2a8/aurmedbayrework.png?dl=0

Notable changes:

1. The lobby is larger, and has a desk that can fit two doctors. There would be windoors on the desk in a final version to keep people out of the record and crew monitoring computers. Two entrances allow people to get into the lobby from the bar or the central hallway.

2. Chemistry is slightly smaller, and the chemistry desk is now in the medical lobby. Consolidating it somewhat.

3. The ward lost some space, but a direct door from the front desk to the ward allows doctors on the desk to immediately see patients inside. Crew monitor is lost by the sleepers, but the records computer remains.

4. Addition of a dedicated EMT area, complete with hardsuits and converter. Removal of the medical suits from EVA may be warranted. This is somewhat intended to go with another suggestion (dedicated EMT/Paramedic slots, with slightly different access than standard doctors), but could easily be incorporated in with the current medical job layout.

5. Addition of some emergency medical lockers. The locker for the lobby would contain spare bandages and ointment for small injuries, while the others would contain bottles/syringes/pill bottles of inaprovaline, dyvolyne, spaceacillin, and tramadol, as well as a few splints and possibly extra cryobags.

[Skull132]

I'm somewhat a fan of the new lobby design.

I am not a fan of the gutted chemistry workspace (even as it stands, I find it a bit too claustrophobic with two chemists active) and I find EVA gear at the medical bay to go against previously discussed matters with that in mind (we had a bit of a ro-shambo about it a month and a half back). I'd rather that stuff be kept where it's always been kept: EVA. It's there for a reason, after all.

[Jamini]

I'm somewhat a fan of the new lobby design.

I am not a fan of the gutted chemistry workspace (even as it stands, I find it a bit too claustrophobic with two chemists active) and I find EVA gear at the medical bay to go against previously discussed matters with that in mind (we had a bit of a ro-shambo about it a month and a half back). I'd rather that stuff be kept where it's always been kept: EVA. It's there for a reason, after all.

 

I can understand the concern/reasoning, though as a first responder-style player it saddens me to have EVA equipment so far from your medical first responders. I included it as a tie-in to another suggestion which, by board rules, has to go in another thread. If that were to go through, the EMT room wouldn't be accessible by doctors. Jobs that need hardsuits should really have them close to where they are going to be at rest (such as engineering), as when a breach happens you sometimes cannot reach EVA at all.

Alternatively, one suit in there and two in EVA would be wonderful.

I find the current chemistry really spacious, but I'm also used to working in cramped chem labs from Bay and Unity. Your milage may vary.

[Skull132]

Here's the issue: EVA recovery of personnel hasn't exactly been under the management of medical. Usual MO is to cooperate with Engineering (psst, RP potential with this, instead of giving medical the key to all situations that may arise), with medical tagging along or waiting an airlock, rollerbed in hand.

Also, when a breach happens and you cannot reach EVA at all, that's the point. Having the obvious answer removed promotes RP and problem solving.

I suggest you read up on this: http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=934

[Baka]

As a chemistry main, we're already sardine enough as it is. This would just be a claustrophobic nightmare if you tighten up chemistry.

[Rechkalov]

Don't know about the rest of the place, but the lobby and the patient/recovery room are great. I really like that.

If there is any point in changing this before the transfer to ground-based station, please, let's!

[Jamini]

Here's the issue: EVA recovery of personnel hasn't exactly been under the management of medical. Usual MO is to cooperate with Engineering (psst, RP potential with this, instead of giving medical the key to all situations that may arise), with medical tagging along or waiting an airlock, rollerbed in hand.

Also, when a breach happens and you cannot reach EVA at all, that's the point. Having the obvious answer removed promotes RP and problem solving.

I suggest you read up on this: http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=934

 

Eh, I will point out I've been an engineering main for years on various heavier RP servers. Normally I prefer it if the medics can get people out of an area so I can fix things faster/more efficiently since it's really ... not even close to engineering's job description to treat people for injury? Moving someone who's downed is a risky, dangerous thing. In real life, if you see someone on the floor the first thing you are told to do in any first aid class is to not move them, unless there is risk of greater injury, and wait for medical responders to arrive on the scene. Its just not very realistic at all to have engineers expected to perform all rescue operations, as well as repairs for an area (though obviously, if someone is suffocating, whoever is closest should get them the hell out.)

I will also point out that first response jobs as a whole tend to take an "always be prepared" approach in real life. Many first responders of all professions carry radios while even at home, and have their tools in easy-to-reach locations when they are on-call. Every second can count in a job where you are expected to respond in life or death situations. While you wouldn't want to consider wearing a suit at all times, having one medical suit so that a single person can go EVA from medical just doesn't seem that outrageous. There is still plenty of opportunity to interact with those engineers while pulling people out of the breach, and probably treating any engineers in the process. The only real difference is the side of the airlock you are on.

Addendum: Last night, during a round with a very full engineering (about seven-eight people) there were about five people stuck in the arrivals hallway when the gravity generator got hit by a blob. Getting them out pretty drastically slowed engineering's response (which was haphazard due to a few people going nutty with the fireaxe. :3 ) as we had to throw three people out of the hallway. Another engineer got stuck in arrivals and wasn't rescued for almost fourty minutes, and an officer in a relatively safe zone was stuck for almost an hour. Having a dedicated medical person to move those people while engineering handled the biohazard and repairs would have been extremely welcome.

Edited February 17, 2015 by Guest

[Tenenza]

I don't like it.

It's Aesthetically unpleasing.

Your Feng shui is disturbed by the extreme number of orfaces.

[Witt]

Alright, here is my two sense. The set up we have is fine. Your new design is far to cramped and as everyone else has already pointed out, suits are left in EVA for a reason; that reason being it prevents power-gaming and helps create the real life scenario of you occasionally getting F***ed b y the situation.

As for you argument about how in real life a first responder always has there gear on hand is wrong. As someone who serves as a first responder, I can promise you that while most of us do carry our radios everywhere; all we keep with us besides that is a more advanced medical kit, and in some cases an AED. Anything past that, we are forced to wait for an ambulance form the nearest bay.

[Jamini]

Alright, here is my two sense. The set up we have is fine. Your new design is far to cramped and as everyone else has already pointed out, suits are left in EVA for a reason; that reason being it prevents power-gaming and helps create the real life scenario of you occasionally getting F***ed b y the situation.

As for you argument about how in real life a first responder always has there gear on hand is wrong. As someone who serves as a first responder, I can promise you that while most of us do carry our radios everywhere; all we keep with us besides that is a more advanced medical kit, and in some cases an AED. Anything past that, we are forced to wait for an ambulance form the nearest bay.

 

I said easily accessible, not on-hand. Keeping an advanced medical kit and an AED on-hand is significantly more than most people would. Using EMT tied to fire department as an example: you also probably do not need to take your ambulance halfway across the station to pick up re-breathers/breath masks to prevent yourself from getting nailed by smoke inhalation? You'd have a set in the van. I'm just not sold on keeping hardsuits completely locked away halfway across the facility in an environment where vacuum and decompression are a fact of life. It doesn't make sense to me.

Mind, I'm not saying Medical Doctors should be the ones using these suits either. They should be reserved for people with the explicit training/sign up to use them. Characters that probably do not have the same training that MDs and other specialists would.

-----------------

Regardless, removing the suits wouldn't be difficult. Aside from that, what areas seem cramped to you specifically? Without the suits and converter, it wouldn't be difficult to give chem back another four tiles to use.

[Skull132]

Is it bad that I actually play this game, in part, for situations like the one you described? They call for active problem solving, teamwork, an actual challenge. An organic challenge. And they, in my mind, call for organic solutions: learn to work with another department, learn to communicate with another set of players, instead of limiting the scope of your job to simply: "I am here to fix holes."

And as a secondary point: whether you agree with it or not, the duties of the Engineering staff most certainly include assisting medical personnel with the recovery of personnel in adverse and hazardous conditions. Imagine how firefighters and paramedics work together: firefighters are the ones who go smoke diving, and pull someone out for the EMTs.

Now, onto your actual arguments. The station has alert levels. Through which are deduced readiness conditions. No situation under Green alert should warrant an alert-0 demand for EVA suited medics. The duties requiring EVA are safe enough, so that you usually have a buffer of 5 minutes to get dressed. This is why the Corporation wouldn't set up an extra storage room in medical for suits.

As alerts rise, your readiness condition rises. On Blue and higher, it is allowed to fetch an EVA suit and store it in the medical, in preparation of an alert-0 EVA call. The consideration for those calls is now present and realistic.

Think EMTs and NBC alerts. I doubt you'll find them prepped to answer an NBC call rapidly, without any warning (without the alert level raised, in our case).

[Jamini]

Is it bad that I actually play this game, in part, for situations like the one you described? They call for active problem solving, teamwork, an actual challenge. An organic challenge. And they, in my mind, call for organic solutions: learn to work with another department, learn to communicate with another set of players, instead of limiting the scope of your job to simply: "I am here to fix holes."

 

I wouldn't call it bad at all, however I would call it an issue when someone is completely trapped, alone, injured, and can't be helped because his co-workers are very, very busy dealing with a much larger organic threat very fun for the stranded person. Spending fourty minutes with virtually no ability to interact with anyone but yourself is simply put, not terribly enjoyable. I don't mind pulling people out of areas as an engineer, or working with staff from other departments (quite the opposite really. I sort of wish security in particular would call engineering and science more!) I do however, mind when someone is deprived of interaction completely. Having a medic in a hardsuit able to rescue those trapped people would have been a great chance for RP for two people who likely wouldn't have gotten any, while allowing the busy engineering department to focus on the elephant in the room.

 

Now, onto your actual arguments. The station has alert levels. Through which are deduced readiness conditions. No situation under Green alert should warrant an alert-0 demand for EVA suited medics. The duties requiring EVA are safe enough, so that you usually have a buffer of 5 minutes to get dressed. This is why the Corporation wouldn't set up an extra storage room in medical for suits.

As alerts rise, your readiness condition rises. On Blue and higher, it is allowed to fetch an EVA suit and store it in the medical, in preparation of an alert-0 EVA call. The consideration for those calls is now present and realistic.

Think EMTs and NBC alerts. I doubt you'll find them prepped to answer an NBC call rapidly, without any warning (without the alert level raised, in our case).

 

I can see your reasoning on that, though I can't say I like it much. If there was room, I'd almost suggest a specific area in medical that is to be shuttered/locked unless blue alert is called, not unlike the armory. However there simply isn't the space without a more extensive remap.

In an OOC sense, I've found historically that allowing players to move around and act during emergencies tends to be more fun than forcing folks to stay put and sit on their hands. Be mindful: I've done medical back when medical hardsuits did not exist at all, and I've seen an EVA with hardsuits locked away from medics. Assuming your layout was derived from Baystations EVA layout (which it does. quite strongly!) I will point out I was the person that originally remapped that area it so that doctors and security officers could enter there at all (As well as putting medical and security hardsuits in there in the first place) explicitly so they had more options to act in emergencies that resulted in a breach. This was done predominantly as large-scale breaches would often become an "engineering-only" problem and leave a vast number of people out of the round... and often result in a quick shuttle call if left unfixed.

Anecdote:

One of my personal favorite rounds I've had the pleasure of playing in, in the past, was a round as an EMT. I had been called to a cargo breach during a revolution round. Upon arrival, security and engineering were already at the scene and had not yet entered. There was an Unathi in an industrial hardsuit(the new snowflaky overpowered space suits B12 has) that was threatening to drill in people's heads behind it. Exactly four people there were equipped for EVA. Myself, as a medic, two officers, and an engineer. The engineer opened cargo up for the officers, who had riot suppression grenades and bay's very, very weak tasers. I hung back on the edges and had my medical supplies ready to patch them up while the officers negotiated with the Unathi. The situation was tense, but believable and quite fun for all involved. Luckily, there were only minor decompression injuries and we got everyone out safely. At the end, when the miner was finally arrested, the four of us were able to go to the lounge and spend some time bonding/chatting about the situation.

Here, I do not believe that such a situation would be likely to occur, especially as setting up a hardsuit for that character takes a good few minutse to do. This saddens me greatly.

[Skull132]

Why would that not happen here? I am confused and perplexed by your thought process and understanding. A breach does not mean that you're in a position to not access a suit. Further more: even if the locks are down, there are ways past them/through them. Yes, at risk to you, but every knife needs an edge. You are looking to dull one of those edges for no real trade off. A situation needs gravity and risk, otherwise all of this will turn into a spectator sport. This is, without going into singular arguments, why majority of EVA gear should be centralized at round start.

I will add. No. You will not find experiences like you did on Baystation. Our mechanics and setup, emphasis and MO differ from what you saw there. You would be hard pressed to find the exact same problems here, instead there are others. This isn't a bad thing, it's known as variety.

[Jamini]

Why would that not happen here? I am confused and perplexed by your thought process and understanding. A breach does not mean that you're in a position to not access a suit. Further more: even if the locks are down, there are ways past them/through them. Yes, at risk to you, but every knife needs an edge. You are looking to dull one of those edges for no real trade off. A situation needs gravity and risk, otherwise all of this will turn into a spectator sport. This is, without going into singular arguments, why majority of EVA gear should be centralized at round start.

I will add. No. You will not find experiences like you did on Baystation. Our mechanics and setup, emphasis and MO differ from what you saw there. You would be hard pressed to find the exact same problems here, instead there are others. This isn't a bad thing, it's known as variety.

 

It simply seems like adding unnecessary steps for the purpose of adding steps I suppose. I don't see how a medic in a hardsuit going into a hazardous area is by any stretch of the imagination a "spectator sport". There is always an element of risk when you enter a depressurized zone, doubly or triply so if hostiles or other hazards may still be in the area. Moving a hardsuit to medical wouldn't really change that, except in the very specific situation of the central ring and dorms being vented. I believe you may be using an older, less-shitty version of decompression here as well? That's something I haven't had a chance to confirm, but you aren't using the current "20 seconds and you pass out without a suit" rules that upstream has, which may make some of my arguments void anyway.

As for the baystation argument, I'd say you guys are very close right now to how B12 was about a year ago. Just before the massive security nerf and several bans. The similarities are actually rather outstanding. That said, it's entirely off-topic so it may be best to simply leave it at that and move onto more relevant topics.

Re: The anacdote - I'm aware it probably wouldn't happen here. I simply stated a good experience I've had while using a medical hardsuit. One I probably would have missed had I been required to go to EVA and convert a suit (which has a substantial opportunity cost. It's not exactly quick to convert suits for non-humans, as my EMT is.)

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Edit: In hindsight, though I'm aware of the forum rules on this, I'm starting to wonder if both this and the EMT thread should have been linked. Or the lobby and the EMT remap areas be made seperate. Since most of our discussion has been more on EMTs than on the map itself.

Regarding the remap, I'll take another poke at it when I get home. Cutting down on the responder hallway would be trivial without the suits or converter, and that gives us some extra dead space to add to chem. I'd like to keep the entrance though, as it allows faster access to the starboard hall/a route to get dying xenobiologists in cryo faster if you don't take maint.

[Skull132]

And I suppose I fail to see how having a medical hardsuit stored in EVA suddenly makes it inaccessible. They're there, all medical personnel have access to them, and if a situation os created where you can't access it, then all power to the man who made that situation.

[Jamini]

And I suppose I fail to see how having a medical hardsuit stored in EVA suddenly makes it inaccessible. They're there, all medical personnel have access to them, and if a situation os created where you can't access it, then all power to the man who made that situation.

 

Differences of opinion I suppose. You're the head dev, it's trivial to change regardless. I'll have a revised image up as soon as I can. Still happily looking for any other suggestions folks might like to see in this, or opinions about it.

[Carver]

I really dig that lobby for making Medbay actually look somewhat inviting. But considering it's exposure to two halls, giving it a set of double-sized doors, or even a single double-door in the opening to the starboard hall, might help in preventing nonsense when various areas get vented and you don't want to spread it.

Whilst I'm personally a fan of really-cramped micro-mapping, I can see how that Chemistry area would make a bit of an annoying squeeze in managing your space when multiple Chemists are involved. Placing a table behind a locker and a vendor is generally a big no-no for ease of accessibility.

The compact recovery room might encourage Medical not to use it as their personal dorms, but the EVA room seems to be both ill-thought of in both it's implementation (Medical gaining EZ-access supplies handed to them), and it's design (There's a notable lack of oxygen tanks for what's meant to be an EVA room). I'd say just throw it out and re-expand Chemistry, maybe re-adding their little table directly to the hall. Though that might make Chemistry feel too big.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

As a lover of medbay (I'm bring back my CMO to manage the horde Legion of lesbians in scrubs) I have to say I've always wished the CMO office was more centralized as it is in other maps. I'd like to see the cryo area transformed into the CMO office with lots of windows, to make it the central of medbay. That recovery room can become the new cryo zone, keeping it the same distance, and you can move recovery to the old CMO office - in practice it's just a place SSD doctors go to take a nap, with post-surgeries going back out the door to the surgery prep area to be shaken awake and shoo'd away.

I haven't been chemist in a long, long time, but I don't see anything particularly claustrophobic about this new lab - with 2 people, you still have your sides of the room, and except for the front desk you don't have to stray from your left-right movements for the regular stuff.

For stuff I already like - I really like the openness of the lobby, it doesn't look as tiny, and lets people sit around and chat there while drinking coffee for 2 hours like we usually see without crowding the place out.

I don't like the hardsuits being immediately available in the EMT room, but I can totally see and be okay with being allowed to move the medical hardsuits there during blue alert. It would serve the same function, but without medbay getting double the hardsuits and hyper-preparedness. I personally like the suits starting in EVA storage; it makes it so much more dramatic if you can't easily reach it.

[Jamini]

I'd like to see the cryo area transformed into the CMO office with lots of windows, to make it the central of medbay.

 

Something like that was done on bay a year ago when they remapped into the hospital-styled medbay. It's one of the reasons I absolutely loathe that layout and made a friend of mine who plays as a doctor/CMO outright quit. Flow is very, very, very important in medbay. I'm loathe to consider changing an emergency care area to an office for that reason.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I'd like to see the cryo area transformed into the CMO office with lots of windows, to make it the central of medbay.

 

Something like that was done on bay a year ago when they remapped into the hospital-styled medbay. It's one of the reasons I absolutely loathe that layout and made a friend of mine who plays as a doctor/CMO outright quit. Flow is very, very, very important in medbay. I'm loathe to consider changing an emergency care area to an office for that reason.

 

True. What about the current recovery room, then? Let the CMO see anyone being moved down to the sleepers, and a decent view of the main areas of the medbay.

[Jamini]

I'd like to see the cryo area transformed into the CMO office with lots of windows, to make it the central of medbay.

 

Something like that was done on bay a year ago when they remapped into the hospital-styled medbay. It's one of the reasons I absolutely loathe that layout and made a friend of mine who plays as a doctor/CMO outright quit. Flow is very, very, very important in medbay. I'm loathe to consider changing an emergency care area to an office for that reason.

 

True. What about the current recovery room, then? Let the CMO see anyone being moved down to the sleepers, and a decent view of the main areas of the medbay.

 

That's not a bad place for it, though the current recovery room is a little small. Can look into it for sure

[Jamini]

Revised map, with experimentally moving the CMOs office to the patient recovery room.

http://i.imgur.com/eV9pVtf.png

edit: The image cropping on this forum is a pain. :I

[Conspire2Ignite]

No, it makes more sense keeping the recovery room connected with surgery. That's where the patients are brought to postop, after all. And I'm a little cautious about these airlocks allowing direct entry to any Tom, Dick, and Harry into Medbay. As much as people (including myself sometimes) hate waiting for a doctor to open up medbay, it's important. Two people could walk in while a doctor is in surgery, steal the defib, steal the chemicals out of the cryo tubes (hell, steal the O2 tanks themselves!), pump each other full of painkillers in the sleepers, and leave. It may sound far-fetched, but no one should be in the medical bay without medical personnel's supervision.

[Jamini]

No, it makes more sense keeping the recovery room connected with surgery. That's where the patients are brought to postop, after all. And I'm a little cautious about these airlocks allowing direct entry to any Tom, Dick, and Harry into Medbay. As much as people (including myself sometimes) hate waiting for a doctor to open up medbay, it's important. Two people could walk in while a doctor is in surgery, steal the defib, steal the chemicals out of the cryo tubes (hell, steal the O2 tanks themselves!), pump each other full of painkillers in the sleepers, and leave. It may sound far-fetched, but no one should be in the medical bay without medical personnel's supervision.

 

What do you mean? Those doors would be accessed-locked. Just because they aren't green doesn't mean they aren't medical doors. You can put any access on any door. The colors are purely asthetic.

Here's a version with the old recovery ward back, and colored doors. I guess.

http://imgur.com/p9Kkp01

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

No, it makes more sense keeping the recovery room connected with surgery. That's where the patients are brought to postop, after all. And I'm a little cautious about these airlocks allowing direct entry to any Tom, Dick, and Harry into Medbay. As much as people (including myself sometimes) hate waiting for a doctor to open up medbay, it's important. Two people could walk in while a doctor is in surgery, steal the defib, steal the chemicals out of the cryo tubes (hell, steal the O2 tanks themselves!), pump each other full of painkillers in the sleepers, and leave. It may sound far-fetched, but no one should be in the medical bay without medical personnel's supervision.

 

That's what you'd think but 9/10 it's easier to bring them back out the normal door and put them on one of the beds in prep. As a big surgeon player, that's just my opinion.

I actually really like this swap - I can hover around the lobby without taking the front desk seat, and keep an eye on who is coming in and out without just hovering around people. It let's the CMO be involved, while remaining in my office to delegate over the radio "We have a wounded man here, doctor to the front please" and keep tabs on records and what-have-you. My only nitpick is I'd like to have windows on either side of the east door as well.