Staff Complaint - NursieKitty

[Butterrobber202]

BYOND Key: Butterrobber202
Staff BYOND Key: NursieKitty
Game ID: b2l-dLHI
Reason for complaint: Warning Dispute - "during a rev round, stabbed someone to death as a nonantagonist, repeatedly, with a screwdriver."

Spoiler

 

Right, so the reason is I'm complaining is this warning isn't very fair to someone who was RP'ing. The thought line here is (to me) "Not Antag? Therefore can not kill people." Which would be a fine ruling if we were /TG/ station. 

So to set the scene, Shin is a Cadet and its a Rev round in which Security has been ordered to replace all their punishments with beatings and banishings. The Merchant broke a rule, we drag'em to the holodeck to flog him as an example, it happens, everyone is understandably going "wtf". Then the Captain points out a grumbler Tajara and tells security to beat him. Me and the Officer I was assigned to go to do the deed, and get pretty far, until lo and behold, the Officer gets their skull cracked open by a Assistant with a stunbaton.

Now I'd like to point out a handful of things. 

1. Shin is a Teenager and inexperienced

2. Seeing someone get their skull broken open is pretty nasty and distressing.

 

The Tajara then proceeds to get up and draw a Screwdriver, now that Shin is suddenly outnumbered I decided he'd panic. The HoS then shows up and dumps alot of lethal lasers into the Tajara and Shin dived for the Screwdriver the Tajara lost and proceeded to stab them with it in defense of the downed officer. (I assume she was in Crit, not real sure because of all the chaos.) And my stabbings assisted by the lasers resulted in the Tajara dying and then I get the "why'd you kill that Tajara."

 

The point is, I understand that:

"Non-antag killed someone = Bad"

But what happened was something more like:

"Inexperienced Cadet watches Officer's skull gets beaten in, then lashes out to protect himself because he really doesn't want the same thing to happen to him"

It was self-preservation taken to an extreme due to it being a high-stress situation, that I believed it was completely within the rules of proper escalation and the realm of believable RP for this to happen.

 

Evidence/logs/etc: Totally slipped my mind to grab logs, if Nursie or someone else wants to grab them I'd 100% be thankful.
Additional remarks: Just to clarify, I like Nursie, I just don't agree with their judgement in this circumstance. 

[Garnascus]

I will handle this. 

First some things. Here is the relevant rule 

Quote

Killing in self-defense in NOT preferred. If possible, always try to flee, or disable your opponent. If your character does commit a murder in a canon setting, please roleplay out the effects it would have on your character as well.

That being said rev rounds are definitely in a more grey area. The lines are supposed to be blurred and antagonistic action can become justified regardless of what side you may or may not be on. HOWEVER i have some questions. 

25 minutes ago, Butterrobber202 said:

we drag'em to the holodeck to flog him as an example

Then the Captain points out a grumbler Tajara and tells security to beat him. Me and the Officer I was assigned to go to do the deed

Alright, so a rev round with a gimmick revolving around sec dishing out boots, medium style. Your character despite being "inexperienced" goes along with this. This is of course fine and i do not see an issue.

28 minutes ago, Butterrobber202 said:

Now I'd like to point out a handful of things. 

1. Shin is a Teenager and inexperienced

2. Seeing someone get their skull broken open is pretty nasty and distressing.

Ok so here is where i get to a bit of a problem. Maybe you can clear this up for me but i find it a little odd that your character is not distressed by beating people in public and not hindered by their inexperience here but suddenly is when he is outnumbered? It just seems kind of strange added to the fact that the HoS had already lasered the tajaran in question. Now i was not present during this round so it is entirely possible i am missing some key info or my early morning reading skills are making me roll this investigation check with disadvantage. Perhaps you can clear this up for me. 

In the mean time i have mentioned nursie on discord. She will hopefully post here soon when awakes from her catnap. 

[Butterrobber202]

@Garnascus

1. He IS distressed, but being a Skrell I'm not outwardly showing emotion. Shin's thoughts at the moment were, "This sucks and is horrible but I don't want to get beaten so I'll go along with it."

2. He was outnumbered because we chased the Tajara outside the the holodeck, and when the Officer went down it was Shin versus the two Revs until the HoS showed up.

[Garnascus]

2 minutes ago, Butterrobber202 said:

1. He IS distressed, but being a Skrell I'm not outwardly showing emotion. Shin's thoughts at the moment were, "This sucks and is horrible but I don't want to get beaten so I'll go along with it."

That is perfectly acceptable logic. I only think it becomes inconsistent when you decide to outwardly display emotion over a tajaran who had already been lasered (where they on the ground because of this?).

5 minutes ago, Butterrobber202 said:

when the Officer went down it was Shin versus the two Revs until the HoS showed up.

So the HoS showed up, lasered the tajaran and then you stabbed them with the screwdriver?

[Butterrobber202]

Just now, Garnascus said:

That is perfectly acceptable logic. I only think it becomes inconsistent when you decide to outwardly display emotion over a tajaran who had already been lasered (where they on the ground because of this?).

So the HoS showed up, lasered the tajaran and then you stabbed them with the screwdriver?

1. No, he didn't hit the ground til after my stabbing

2. I don't remember it clearly, I believe I started stabbing before the HoS shot the Tajara. It was alot going on at once.

[Garnascus]

2 minutes ago, Butterrobber202 said:

2. I don't remember it clearly, I believe I started stabbing before the HoS shot the Tajara. It was alot going on at once.

Alright. I understand but from a surface level investigation here the letter of our rules do seem to forbid your actions. I understand that you might be inexperienced and/or stressed IC but it feels a bit off to stab a crew member to death after they defended themselves from sec beating them :C.... 

[Butterrobber202]

1 hour ago, Garnascus said:

Alright. I understand but from a surface level investigation here the letter of our rules do seem to forbid your actions. I understand that you might be inexperienced and/or stressed IC but it feels a bit off to stab a crew member to death after they defended themselves from sec beating them :C.... 

honestly I didn't think you could die from eye stabs, I assumed it just did direct organ damage instead of general brute. But I'll understand if the ruling is as it is. No prob.

[witchbells]

Despite the justifications given here, I still don't think it was reasonable for a sane character to be stabbing someone repeatedly in the eyes. And you continued to do so after they had been downed, leading to their death. 

 

For future reference, stabbing any part of the body can eventually lead to death. Even the extremities - hands, feet, etc.

[Garnascus]

Alright if there is nothing else i do believe this matter can be archived in 24 hours.