Staff Complaint: Cnaym

[Resilynn]

BYOND Key: Resilynn

 Staff BYOND Key: Cynam

Game ID: b3x-alWP

Reason for complaint: Three days ago, Burger was complaining about my gimmick.  This is a thing Burger does, and is notorious for doing.  It's even a thing Burger said he wouldn't do on his unban request, found here: 

Not complaining about rounds is literally Burger's first 'step he'll be taking'.  So, he complained about my malf gimmick and I said something along the lines of 'what, you, complaining about a gimmick?'  He said stop, I dropped it.

Yesterday, I was in a conversation about some medical nerfs I drafted up forever ago.  I linked it on the general discord and mentioned that everyone on the linked post (except Burger, but you know) mostly approved at least in part on the nerf.  I said except Burger, but you know, because, well, it was right there.  

Burger called me a retarded cunt.

Tonight, Burger was complaining about the round where I antagged, again.  

"You do you" is both dismissive 'ok, whatever', and also, really not unwarranted, given his history and promise to stop doing this on his unban request.  And he called me a cunt, again.

 

I ahelped, and was told, basically, 'well don't do things that get you called a cunt'.

This is completely unacceptable to me.  1.  I've had a pleasant tone this entire time.  I've dropped things the moment burger's called me a cunt, or called me retarded.  I haven't fought.  I haven't called HIM any slurs.  Two times were in response to him directly criticizing my antag play, one wasn't even criticizing him, it was just mentioning his reaction in a linked post.  2. I have no control over whether a toxic community member who was permabanned for doing exactly this does it again.  I think it's ridiculous to tell me 'just don't be called a cunt c:'.  He was talking about my antag play directly both times he's done this in ooc, am I not allowed to respond to ANYONE when they comment on my antaggery or is it just Burger?

I want two things to come of this complaint.  I want Burger's status on this server reevaluated, he is not following the rules he placed for himself to avoid his previous toxic behavior.  This is a player that repeatedly used racial slurs, who I guess is now politely sticking to 'cunt' and 'retard' instead of the n word?  And I want cnaym to please clarify if he feels I am allowed to respond conversationally to criticism on my gimmicks, and to justify why he feels responding conversationally earns me being called a series of slurs.

Evidence/logs/etc: Included.

Additional remarks: N/A

Edited October 3, 2019 by Resilynn

[BurgerBB]

I would just like to clarify some things. I was about to make a complaint about your behavior towards me but I rather not have two threads about the same situation. Since you're asking for me to be permabanned I think it's very appropriate for me to comment on this and focus my efforts on explaining my actions instead of adding more accusations to the plate.

 

For the first instance, I do not recall that I was complaining about your gimmick three days ago. I recall that I said something, and you then decided to take it exceptionally personal and in a completely wrong direction. I believe I said something unrelated to your gimmick but you took it as something related to your gimmick. I was going to explain to you that wasn't the case, but realised the path that would be in the process. I instead told you to stop, and I stopped myself as well because it was clear there was some serious miscommunication going on and it was very clear that you're not interested in a conversation with me.

 

For the second instance, this isn't me defending my actions, but I did not call you a retarded cunt. I asked you to stop being a cunt because for two days in a row you were exceptionally hostile towards me. I said that your quip, not you, was retarded because it was absolutely crude and of low level. I admit that my wording should've been better, and that I should not have used the word "retarded" despite the frequent okay use of it in Aurora, but making a callout to someone who isn't even in the conversation about an opinion they held like 6 months ago is really stupid and quite worthy of me saying "Hey, stop being an asshole."

 

For the third instance, I absolutely had enough of you and was planning of messaging an admin on discord about your behavior as it's been ongoing since I've gotten back and even longer than that. At this point I decided to repeat what I said to you like I did the second time in case I wasn't clear enough. I was bwoinked by an admin when they noticed, and they told me to stop calling people cunts. They also told me I should make a complaint if there are any issues that go past ongoing rounds. I was noted for the behavior at the end and I did not contest it.

Now, onto the post. Saying to me "but okay burger you do you" is not very pleasant in the context of the other two incidents. I legitimately rather you use racial slurs and other unpleasantries towards me because I know that those are used out of dull anger instead of calculated hatred. Personally if someone goes out of their way to put effort into their insults and express themselves in a way that takes more effort than saying "go fuck yourself" or something similar, that hurts more.

 

The shitty behavior that lead to my banning in the first place was me being a shit and complaining about rounds in a non-helpful way that did not contribute to the future of AuroraStation and provided nothing of substance to the conversation. My criticisms were "Round man bad." so instead of complaining about the round I decided to phrase my messages in a way that don't even involve the people in the current round and give advice about possible future rounds and making the criticism extremely general by not going into specifics but instead focusing on what is important like I did in my general thread about AI Invasion Gimmicks. But I will admit that I think I've broken a lot of steps that I would be taking to avoid it, honestly. I'm using the forums now as a tool to express things that I would normally say in OOC, but at a greater depth. I've participated in development for a bit, Yonnimer has asked me to look over a PR and I have made several PRs after a user specifically requests that I make them. 

 

There is a thing I also want to touch, and that's the accusations of me being bigoted and/or racist. If anyone dares, I suggest talking to Kevinz about my opinion on the n-word if he even remembers. On citadel, you're allowed to call people the n word ICly and OOCly for any reason and Kevinz hilariously noticed my discomfort when I saw it being used like crazy. I would also like to point out that since my unban, I have never used the n word with a soft g or a hard r or any other variation whatsoever since me being on Aurora.

[Resilynn]

I do not think it is shitty to respond to you.  I have not used offensive language, I have not commented about your personality in general.  I have responded twice directly to your criticism of my antaggery, and once, mentioned your name as an outlier in the 'everyone agreed with this'.  I didn't think to censor myself and not say burger because it was not a big deal to me that you did not agree.  I was just making my 'almost everyone agreed' claim accurate.

You are taking offense where none was meant, and you're responding with slurs.

[Cnaym]

1 hour ago, Resilynn said:

And I want cnaym to please clarify if he feels I am allowed to respond conversationally to criticism on my gimmicks, and to justify why he feels responding conversationally earns me being called a series of slurs.

Yes, you are. There where no actions taken against you.

It was not a series of slurs.

Burger has kept his suggestions open ended without naming anyone. You have decided to feel like it was aimed at you or that you where required to respond to it.

I do not blame you for his response, nor deny you the right to respond to him. My intention was that you as staff member know that we sometimes have to just swallow a situation for overall improvement, even if it may seem hard in the moment.

I asked both sides to keep interaction to a minimum if they are not able to converse in a peaceful manner.

I was and still am thinking that you are able to just ignore Burgers comments, since you now know that it will end like this, no matter how polite you respond.

From my point of view the word cunt was used once. I used a rather harsh tone to tell Burger to drop it, letting him know that he "knows the rules" by now and noted it. My intention was to keep OOC "cunt" free and that is still my goal.

If this complaint opens the option for you two to talk to each other using facts and clearing up misunderstandings, then by all means please do so, as I personally have no issue with either of you two and would like you to come to terms with each other so that we may focus on enjoying the game.

Personal note: I am new, I do not know the backstory and frankly it should not matter. You either get along or you don't. OOC is and always will be the wrong place to carry it out. I hope this forum thread will yield some results so we can move on from this.

[Goret]

Hello. @Alberyk and I are going to take this complaint. Give us some time so that we can gather informations, check the round ID that was provided, and go through your posts. Reminder that we would prefer if you keep your posts short and concise.

[BurgerBB]

19 minutes ago, Goret said:

Hello. @Alberyk and I are going to take this complaint. Give us some time so that we can gather informations, check the round ID that was provided, and go through your posts. Reminder that we would prefer if you keep your posts short and concise.

I had to be lengthy in my response because the OP grossly misinterpreted what actually happened and to explain accurately what actually happened. I did not complain about their gimmick, I did not call them a retarded cunt, and honestly I didn't really complain about them at all. Most of the antags that round did their best to interact with crew but it was obvious that some people didn't want to to do that, and didn't do that. I'm also definitely not a bigot.

 

When people lie or seriously misrepresent what happened you're going to see a few paragraphs from me. It would be dumb of me to say "No that's not what happened." and not explain what happened.

 

[Resilynn]

15 hours ago, Cnaym said:

Yes, you are. There where no actions taken against you.

It was not a series of slurs.

Burger has kept his suggestions open ended without naming anyone. You have decided to feel like it was aimed at you or that you where required to respond to it.

I do not blame you for his response, nor deny you the right to respond to him. My intention was that you as staff member know that we sometimes have to just swallow a situation for overall improvement, even if it may seem hard in the moment.

I asked both sides to keep interaction to a minimum if they are not able to converse in a peaceful manner.

I was and still am thinking that you are able to just ignore Burgers comments, since you now know that it will end like this, no matter how polite you respond.

From my point of view the word cunt was used once. I used a rather harsh tone to tell Burger to drop it, letting him know that he "knows the rules" by now and noted it. My intention was to keep OOC "cunt" free and that is still my goal.

If this complaint opens the option for you two to talk to each other using facts and clearing up misunderstandings, then by all means please do so, as I personally have no issue with either of you two and would like you to come to terms with each other so that we may focus on enjoying the game.

Personal note: I am new, I do not know the backstory and frankly it should not matter. You either get along or you don't. OOC is and always will be the wrong place to carry it out. I hope this forum thread will yield some results so we can move on from this.

I am personally happy with this explanation. It has been a more consistent problem than once, but I don’t expect you to know all of the context behind that one ahelp. I hope you understand where I was coming from in my misunderstanding of exactly what you meant. 

[Goret]

Alright, after a few days of thoughts we took the decision to give a warn to both of you.

Resi, you clearly could have prevented this by simply blocking Burger, ignoring him, and not trying to start fights. In the discord screenshot you took, you are clearly the one who tried to start it, not Burger. 

Burger, your problem was to respond to the "agression" directly, and doing justice yourself. You should have brought up the issue to a staff member when it happened, and not letting it sink to bring it up again later.

Alberyk and I think this complaint is resolved. We will close it and archive it in 24 hours.

[BurgerBB]

-snip-

Edited October 5, 2019 by BurgerBB

[Goret]

Locking and archiving.