Arrow768 Posted November 3, 2019 Posted November 3, 2019 On 01/11/2019 at 10:17, BurgerBB said: There is also the case where I tried to report an ex-moderator's creepy behavior erp-like to the point where I literally blocked, avoided, and stopped playing the character he was chasing after to Arrow ,but I got told it was irrelevant and not an issue. I mentioned this after my unban and after the person in question left the community, but the first thing a staff member said wasn't "Wow that's fucked up." or "Let's look into this." but rather "Why did you tell Arrow and not an admin lmao." and nothing further from that. Your complaint to me was "that there is a serious conflict of interest [due to their IC interactions with Marwani]" and that you believe this post is too influenced by your IC interactions. As this post raised valid questions and Evandorf was not handling the complaint, I saw no reason to remove that post. I also told you to report posts that you believe violate forum rules. Spoiler To reiterate: Your complaint to me was about a potential conflict of interest they had when making a post on your player complaint/ban request. I handled that and informed you that I dont see them being influenced by any IC actions (also they did not handle your complaint). I also advised you later on to report any forum posts that you believe violate rules. You never told me that you want to complain to me about their IC interactions with you, so I didnt handle that as I assumed it was just to provide context to your complaint about the post being too influenced. As you should know, we have a player complaint forum to handle stuff like that.
BurgerBB Posted November 3, 2019 Author Posted November 3, 2019 8 hours ago, Arrow768 said: Your complaint to me was "that there is a serious conflict of interest [due to their IC interactions with Marwani]" and that you believe this post is too influenced by your IC interactions. As this post raised valid questions and Evandorf was not handling the complaint, I saw no reason to remove that post. I also told you to report posts that you believe violate forum rules. Hide contents To reiterate: Your complaint to me was about a potential conflict of interest they had when making a post on your player complaint/ban request. I handled that and informed you that I dont see them being influenced by any IC actions (also they did not handle your complaint). I also advised you later on to report any forum posts that you believe violate rules. You never told me that you want to complain to me about their IC interactions with you, so I didnt handle that as I assumed it was just to provide context to your complaint about the post being too influenced. As you should know, we have a player complaint forum to handle stuff like that. It was a complaint about both. The reason why I never talked about it publicly except for a few select users because it's just unironically humiliating so I went to you because you were the one handling forum deletion posts and I couldn't contact anyone else as I was gone from the discord. The most important thing I think to me at the time was to focus on the fact that a disgruntled creep was saying some pretty invalid shit but apparently you thought it was valid so I gave up on that entirely. I don't know if I went to alb first, or second, but the attitude you gave and the attitude alb gave felt like they didn't really give a shit so I just gave up on that. Like believe it or not, both of you gave a pretty shitty attitude to the situation; like an actual fucking pretty shit attitude. "He made some valid points." is not the response you should really give when I bring up a moderator who's been acting like an actual degenerate to the point where they made a player feel uncomfortable. Do you notice my shift in punctuation after you said that? I was shocked but at that point I was just annoyed at you guys and just gave up entirely because quite frankly at that time, and honestly at this time, I seriously don't believe that you give a shit about staff acting out of line.
BurgerBB Posted November 3, 2019 Author Posted November 3, 2019 22 hours ago, Skull132 said: Well. Alberyk requested that I read the complaint and provide input. So here I am. Regarding your comments on Garn's gameplay. I cannot say whether or not his conduct is within the rules, since I've not been privy to it firsthand, and not enough specifics have been dropped to describe it. But I can comment on your method of phrasing it: To say this requires you to make a call on Garn's intent. In two parts, actually. First, it requires you to say that, "Garn is doing this in order to pretend that he's a new player," and secondly, it requires you to say that, "He is doing it to be malicious." This requires you to disregard any other explanation for these actions and to be fully convinced that he's doing it to be a jackass. Which is not usually a judgement call that the administration makes, or makes easily. Specially when there are more common explanations to describe the actions in question (playing unknown characters is a known trend among server leadership here and abroad; Garn's play style could just be what it is, there does not need to be malice behind it; etc). That said. There is also the mechanic of too much borderline stupid IC behaviour resulting in a cumulative punishment. Which can be reviewed if necessary. Regarding the matter of Garn's posting on Discord. These are largely to be determined by context. Most of the time, it's fine, until an actually legitimate issue comes up for discussion. The devs and contributors go, "Fuck the playerbase" every once in a while, or smirkingly tell players to code shit themselves. The admins moan about complaints. Etcetera. This, IMO, is all fine, as long as the context isn't serious about a specific issue. At which point, it should be reeled in and a more professional tone assumed while addressing the matter. What's more, out of your screenshot compendium, most if not all had a non-serious context to them. Aand in the ones where the context was serious, Garn was talking shop. I also find it difficult to believe that we've banned or otherwise punished people for lighthearted comments akin to those situations. You're free to cite evidence that I can look up to the contrary, but it takes a lot of sword clashing to get punished for OOC/Discord conduct. As was the case with Nanako, you, a good few other names. And the rope extended is sometimes pretty long (funnily enough, mostly due to the first principle I outlined above). We do occasionally police the tone of discussions, which you might interpret as "Getting in trouble", but that's highly context dependent. The main objective there is to stop a discussion that is about to get heated, or has already gotten heated. Here is the giant meme here. Here are the three paths of Aurorastation Staff that I've dealt with. It's only these paths; and there are usually never any variations of it. Path 1: 1. Staff/Player straight up insults me. 2. I ignore it. My day is a little bit worse. 3. Nothing changes in the person's behavior. Path 2: 1. Staff/Player straight up insults me. 2. I report it to a mod. 3. 9 times out of 10 they don't see an issue with it, claim it's just banter or something, and move on. 1 times out of 10 they say they talked to them. 4. Nothing changes in the person's behavior. My day is a little bit worse. Path 3: 1. Staff player straight up insults me. 2. I tell them to fuck off. 3. They get upset and spew more insults. 4. I report their behavior because I know they're actually doing this not because it's banter but because they're actually upset because any normal, sane person would fuck off. 5. I get one of the following responses from staff: You shouldn't have provoked them! You started it!!! (I didn't) It doesn't matter who started it! You insulted them too! Both sides are in the wrong here! 6. We both get punished equally. See, you say that you've never punished people for lighthearted comments in OOC but you have. I'm pretty sure the moderation team on Aurora or on Discord can talk about how they striked someone for rude comments on OOC. I've reported plenty of people in OOC for rude comments and in some cases admins have said they've given notes, warnings, or talks to people for it. Hell, just look at that one CIAA dude's staff complaint thread where they got a note and then asked for me to get banned and the staff member to revoke their note or something after trying to start shit with me 3 times, and in all instances of me telling me "Fuck off, you're seriously acting like a cunt right now." Like, don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of not banning people because they said something that the other person didn't like, but I'm not a fan of players not being able to stand up for themselves and telling players to fuck off. If one person says some shit, and the other person doesn't react, no one gives a shit because it isn't an argument; it's just some guy saying shit. If one person says some shit, and the other person tells them to fuck off, that's suddenly an issue because it's technically a fight now and it may or may not start a long argument. This is kind of fucking weird considering that Garn himself has justified his rude behavior because I was rude but I guess we're ignoring that. I've noticed in my time here is that the only time staff ever give a shit about a situation is when it lasts more than 5 seconds. Like I tried talking to you, Skull, about the amount of petty harassment I receive over PRs that I've made by like 2-3 users and you've said something along the lines of "We can't protect you from your reputation." and decided to not even look into the matter. The only time any conflict became an issue to staff was when I told people to fuck off every time they made repeat insults. Those situations are always eye rolling considering that in nearly every case where that happened, I was told that both sides are in the wrong despite me reporting the behavior to moderators before I told them to fuck off. In some cases, I laughed externally and then cried internally for an entire hour when they lecture me that I should've reported the behavior to a moderator when they started insulting me when I actually did. Like I'm just going to bring up Shev again because that's pretty much a nuclear bomb argument at this point that nearly everyone is familiar with. When I was reporting his shit behavior constantly, staff wouldn't give a shit or just defer it to Garn, who didn't give a shit. It was clear that no one really cared that the dude was acting like this so one time I told him to fuck off after he said something and garn decided to both ban us for a week regardless of who started it. I'm completely aware that Garn has expressed regret for doing it like this but it's clear that nothing has really changed from that.
BurgerBB Posted November 3, 2019 Author Posted November 3, 2019 Actually, you can lock this thread if no one has anything else to say. I have nothing else to say on the matter and I unironically don't really have any faith in future arguments made here by me or by others. I just realised that my latest post here is the same shit I've been saying for like a year or two now so given that and how nothing has changed because of my arguments, I don't think there is really a point into me being here.
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