Jump to content

Garnascus - Low RP Behavior, provocative.


Recommended Posts

BYOND Key: BurgerBB

Game ID: b3T-a3NE

Player Byond Key/Character name: Garnascus

Reason for complaint: Poor character/player behavior.

Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? No, round was ending and I just got back for the round end after being disconnected. The single instance alone wasn't worth ahelping because it's not against the rules to be new.

Approximate Date/Time: October 25th, 2019. 12:00 AM PST


To put it short, it was rev and both the head loyalists and the head revs (Garnacus was a head rev) was messing around with insults over comms and other shit. It was generally borderline mrp behavior from all sides to the point where someone other than me to comment sarcastically that it was great RP.  To skip right to it, later in the round I hear laser and taser fire from engineering, so like every chick from a horror movie, I examine engineering from a safe distance, saw it barricaded, and then saw some guy in an engineering suit walking around. Without so much as a word, they proceeded to fire at me, hitting me twice, so I fled. I was a bit forgiving of the interaction because I thought they were a new player and it didn't go bad, so I just told security and medical. Turns out the person in question was Garnacus, which I had a bit of an issue with considering that it he is not a new player, he has a history of this sort of thing that I thought was gone, and it was a player who never really interacted at all with the round.

 

I'm an advocate of good fun, but the way Garnascus behaves using their character intentionally mimics that of a new player unfamiliar to RP and it just seems malicious with all things considered. It is incredibly rare to discover the characters Garnascus plays, but when it happens, it is always characters who are disruptive, childlike, and generally have no effort put into communication or motive. In cases of garnascus being an antagonist, he is extremely quick to escalate. None of what Garnascus is doing is against the rules when judged on its own, but the way he presents his character, the way presents himself in OOC, and the fact that he constantly does this sort of thing just seems malicious.  Again, I'm all for good fun, but it just concerns the hell out of me when Garnascus plays these characters and then boasts about the stupid things they do or say.

image.png.7b33bf31142be09fa1fb353683702985.png

I kind of draw the line at "Yes I was, and there was nothing you can do about it." especially with all things considered. I wouldn't have made this complaint if he didn't say that because it really feels like he's abusing his position and is proud of it. Like you might say it's a joke but it's starting to get hard to believe that it's just that at this point. Given absolutely everything presented it just feels like otherwise given the amount of related complaints that he has had officially and unofficially about how he plays and how he behaves to others ICly and OOCly. I've honestly seen players behave like this, if not better than this, and have gotten slaps on the wrist because of it. Like again, it might be in all good fun, but when you just search the sort of shit he says on discord it just seems extremely malicious with all things considered. I mean, I've gotten in shit for jokingly saying "Players don't matter." constantly even in a joking context.

 

image.png.905c7c02a64e5eb436f4ffdd7b4f0b29.pngimage.thumb.png.39878a60592f2bb386efe8ef09772a2b.pngimage.png.5ada2f3f79413a3f8f6a09dcecd4ff66.pngimage.png.8ce1a942fca45bae04d3159e7cc8ec25.pngimage.png.a5dc4e54ceec00555b0704d34bf0a784.pngimage.thumb.png.20c6ca1fee5a3473ef88b32ace3181d6.png

 

I don't think this is okay. I don't think I'm being unreasonable here when I'm saying that this isn't okay.

 

Link to comment
35 minutes ago, BurgerBB said:

I kind of draw the line at "Yes I was, and there was nothing you can do about it."

I said this to meme on you because you kinda pissed me off. I was genuinely saying sorry. I did not mean to shoot you. So when someone responds to that with "oh of course it was you garn" i think its ok for me to get a little annoyed. 

38 minutes ago, BurgerBB said:

To put it short, it was rev and both the head loyalists and the head revs (Garnacus was a head rev) was messing around with insults over comms and other shit. It was generally borderline mrp behavior from all sides to the point where someone other than me to comment sarcastically that it was great RP

I have no idea what this means. I insulted that one fields dude because he tried attacking me in the hallway. Still never found out why but i rolled with it. 

Its really hard to piece together specifically what you're complaining about here. You had absolutely nothing to do with that round and where not involved me in anyway. So of course you're not going to know why i turned engineering into a burning ball of death.

I have to admit i have never had anyone post such a large collection of discord logs of me. I do not think i have anything to apologize for with the jokes i give and the way i carry myself. 

Link to comment

Yesterday he rolled TCFL for the first time as "tcfl fleck", broke character after falling a Z level and generally acted as though he had no idea what he was doing. I honestly thought that it was a day one player, with no experience on the server. But it became clear it was Garn- which makes sense- since this is how he plays whenever I encounter him. Even if it's your first time going TCFL, I don't see how that justifies breaking character, not knowing the naming conventions and ghosting because you can't use the most direct route available. All the info you need is on the wiki- something a new player may not know but a Head Admin should.

He also fell, and took zero damage making us think he ahealed which he did say he did. He did not, as confirmed to me by someone.

Link to comment

I was there for both rounds, and as someone who was personally involved in the second revolution round, I feel Garn's play was the highlight of it. The revolutionaries and loyalists weren't really doing anything interesting, and the light-hearted nature of what Garn's character was doing was really refreshing. I don't believe he killed a single soul, and it made for a really fun experience to an otherwise uneventful round. 

Link to comment
9 hours ago, Garnascus said:

I said this to meme on you because you kinda pissed me off. I was genuinely saying sorry. I did not mean to shoot you. So when someone responds to that with "oh of course it was you garn" i think its ok for me to get a little annoyed. 

I have no idea what this means. I insulted that one fields dude because he tried attacking me in the hallway. Still never found out why but i rolled with it. 

Its really hard to piece together specifically what you're complaining about here. You had absolutely nothing to do with that round and where not involved me in anyway. So of course you're not going to know why i turned engineering into a burning ball of death.

I have to admit i have never had anyone post such a large collection of discord logs of me. I do not think i have anything to apologize for with the jokes i give and the way i carry myself. 

I don't think it was because you were annoyed considering you say this sort of thing nearly all the time. Like I knew you had a history of saying thing like "This is not a democracy" when people seriously post about PRs and whatnot and a history of shitting on staff complaints. Like it's extremely hard to take it as "just a joke" when you do extremely questionable things, brag about you doing those questionable things, and then say things like "there is nothing you can do about it" or "i'm untouchable" or "staff complaints against me don't matter" when someone raises an eyebrow.

What I'm complaining about is your behavior as a player and how you play characters. You intentionally play characters who act like they don't know how to play or do their job or anything, which then cause issues worthy of a hidden camera show. You then brag about the things you do to people and then claim that complaints against you don't matter because you can't be touched. You shit on staff complaints on discord and say a lot of fucking weird shit as well which honestly raises quite a few eyebrows. You then dismiss this as all just one big joke and that you're just fucking around while other people are confused or annoyed by the things you do.

Like when I searched for "complaint" on discord I did not expect to find so many instances of you shitting on complaints, admitting that you don't read all of them and skim some of them, and telling everyone you're immune to staff complaints because you're host. It wasn't even hard to post all that evidence considering that every time I scrolled down it was just another page of you saying this sort of shit.

Edited by BurgerBB
Link to comment
2 hours ago, Nantei said:

I was there for both rounds, and as someone who was personally involved in the second revolution round, I feel Garn's play was the highlight of it. The revolutionaries and loyalists weren't really doing anything interesting, and the light-hearted nature of what Garn's character was doing was really refreshing. I don't believe he killed a single soul, and it made for a really fun experience to an otherwise uneventful round. 

I'm kind of disappointed in this post. Like, all Garn did was argue on comms, barricaded himself in engineering, shouted on comms, and fought security all while escalating super fast which was probably only fun for him, and security. I'm not saying that he should've interacted with all the crew, I'm saying that nothing he did should really dismiss the "light-hearted nature" of Garn's gameplay just because it was "refreshing", and honestly it really isn't because most antagonist do this sort of thing all the time, except they don't behave oddly.

The reason I'm disappointed is because you seem to be justifying this behavior while seemingly ignoring all the awful shit he says about it. Like I've been noted for doing the same sort of meme behavior as AI and Cyborg and I don't understand why Garn gets a free pass to do this sort of shit while players don't. I especially don't understand why he gets a free pass for him to brag about all this shit and then claim that he's untouchable and that staff complaints against him don't matter.

 

 

Link to comment
2 hours ago, BurgerBB said:

I don't think it was because you were annoyed

Well then theres no point in me saying anything else here. A conversation is impossible. I am just going to say that nothing i do is against the rules and that my behavior on discord is well within the bounds of what is acceptable by anyone else in the community. 

Link to comment
2 hours ago, BurgerBB said:

The reason I'm disappointed is because you seem to be justifying this behavior while seemingly ignoring all the awful shit he says about it. Like I've been noted for doing the same sort of meme behavior as AI and Cyborg and I don't understand why Garn gets a free pass to do this sort of shit while players don't. I especially don't understand why he gets a free pass for him to brag about all this shit and then claim that he's untouchable and that staff complaints against him don't matter.

I'm not 'justifying' anything. I am saying I had no issue with his antag play, that's it. I also want to note I wasn't Security either. Things like this are highly contextual, so saying you have been whacked for something similar doesn't hold a lot of water. I didn't comment on anything else because I had nothing to say about it. I am just saying what I did have a strong opinion on as a participator of the round.

Edited by Nantei
Link to comment
1 hour ago, Nantei said:

I'm not 'justifying' anything. I am saying I had no issue with his antag play, that's it. I also want to note I wasn't Security either. Things like this are highly contextual, so saying you have been whacked for something similar doesn't hold a lot of water. I didn't comment on anything else because I had nothing to say about it. I am just saying what I did have a strong opinion on as a participator of the round.

if I present a bunch of bad things and then some minor things, and someone comments on the minor things and giving a glowing review on how they did those minor things, I'm going to question that contribution and ask for elaboration on why they didn't comment on the just as important or more important parts. It's good that you explained yourself, and I'm sorry for making that accusation, but I've dealt with plenty of people before who like to selectively ignore arguments. Like to me if I present people with 3 pieces of terrible behavior and their only comment was that of a glowing review on how they had fun on one of them, I'm going to question it.

 

Like just see from my perspective.

You have a player who constantly jokes about being immune to punishment, brags about times when they've done borderline meme related things, has insulted players in the past directly, directly makes fun of staff complaints made against people on discord, plays characters who act and behave like new players, and refuses to show any sort of sympathy or any sort of respect for players, not just me, who have criticized the way that garn plays characters. I don't know if people forgot, but I was permabanned this sort of bad behavior and I've seen other players get banned, warnings, or notes for the same sort of shit, regardless of how much they were joking at the time.

Like even here they're justifying the honestly appalling and annoyance driven "There is nothing you can do about it." comment about their low rp play because I provoked them. I got a warning like 2 weeks ago after telling someone to fuck off because they were harassing me over shit I've done a year ago. Hell, I was told by Alb to report this sort of provocative behavior so I really don't think that behaving like this ICly or OOCly is in line with community standards.

Link to comment
2 hours ago, Garnascus said:

Well then theres no point in me saying anything else here. A conversation is impossible. I am just going to say that nothing i do is against the rules and that my behavior on discord is well within the bounds of what is acceptable by anyone else in the community. 

A conversation is not impossible dude. Regardless if it's your intent that you're acting like this or not, you are coming off like this. My word choice in this thread has been precise and to convey that I'm not directly accusing you of abusing your position but rather you are being excessively provocative when you claim that you're immune to staff complaints and they don't matter while you're doing borderline rule breaking behavior in game.

I genuinely believe that you're not abusing your position, but pretending to do so sends a message to players.

Link to comment

I am empathetic to your feelings in that case. I cannot and will not try to debate you out of your feelings because they are valid for you to have. I am afraid however that i will not budge on this point. It is perfectly acceptable for any community member to make jokes the way i do. I think its perfectly acceptable for me to make these kinds of jokes. My actions in how i handle complaints about other staff members and myself should speak for themselves. I reject your argument on pragmatic grounds. 

I had perfectly good reasons for the things i did that round. You simply where not involved in any of them. I barricaded myself in engineering because security was coming after me. I ahelped and received permission to flood the area with plasma should sec attempt to break in and arrest me. You cannot just use a valid situation as vague justification that i engage in unsavory behavior else where. Not really how this works. 

Link to comment

The fact that you're making this an issue about my feelings and my feelings only is really just fucked up and I can see that making a complaint was a mistake. You're exceptionally provocative, and when met with criticism towards you attitude you just try to dismiss it as just humor or the fault of the person complaining. I really don't want to beat around the bush here but straight up you have behaved exactly like the sort of people who get permabanned on here, which I don't think is fair to anyone.

Like in no world should it be okay for a player or a member of staff or anyone to say "And there is nothing you can do with it." in response to someone saying "Oh, of course it was you." when revealing the character they played. Like you admitted you didn't even say that as a joke, but because you were annoyed. It's hard to know when you are serious and not when you're serious when you say the same extremely concerning things when you're upset and when you're apparently joking. You don't seem to see anything wrong with that and think that it's my fault that I have issue with it. That is what I have issue with and that is why I made the complaint. If you did not say those words then I wouldn't have made a complaint about it.

Since we're talking about the reasons why you said the things you said, let me talk about the reasons why I said the things I said. The reason why I don't think I'm insane right now in reporting your behavior is because I've seen other players notice exactly how you play and somehow, despite using the context of your actions, know that it is you who is playing. People know who you play, and not for good reasons, and I think that is extremely important here and cannot just be dismissed because of feelings.

Link to comment

Burger

Listen to me

I am being totally serious right now

43 minutes ago, BurgerBB said:

The fact that you're making this an issue about my feelings and my feelings only is really just fucked up

Stop

Stop this

Go back and read what i said because what you just said here is LITERALLY the OPPOSITE of what i just said. I told you that i acknowledge your feelings and i am not going to try to tell you they are wrong. That is a completely reasonable statement for me to make and you WILL NOT twist this into "garn is deflecting the issue". Dont you dare. Dont do it. I can simultaneously acknowledge your feelings on something and still hold that my actions are acceptable. 

45 minutes ago, BurgerBB said:

I really don't want to beat around the bush here but straight up you have behaved exactly like the sort of people who get permabanned on here, which I don't think is fair to anyone.

Stoooooooop

Our staff team is so lenient and insanely light on punishments and bans its not even funny. You can literally accrue 70 notes over a three year period and MAYBE you will get permabanned. I have said publicly MANY times that you can straight up lie to me in an unban appeal and i will believe you because its what i want to hear. This fiction that "if i did these things i would be banned" is ALWAYS a facetious and absolutely insane argument to make. 

48 minutes ago, BurgerBB said:

Like in no world should it be okay for a player or a member of staff or anyone to say "And there is nothing you can do with it." in response to someone saying "Oh, of course it was you." when revealing the character they played. Like you admitted you didn't even say that as a joke,

"talk shit get hit"

Lets walk through this situation logically.

1. I said i fired upon you by accident

2. I said sorry

3. You said "oh, of course it was you"

This is a snide comment as it the perceived offence is to be expected by someone like me. Yeah i got pretty annoyed by that so i responded in turn "there is nothing you can do about it". That is a true statement. You cannot do anything about RNG selecting me for antag and for me not breaking any rules. I did not break any rules. 

52 minutes ago, BurgerBB said:

Since we're talking about the reasons why you said the things you said, let me talk about the reasons why I said the things I said. The reason why I don't think I'm insane right now in reporting your behavior is because I've seen other players notice exactly how you play and somehow,

Ok thats fine but you're gonna need specific examples and so far you've not really given me much to go on. As i have said many times now YOU WHERE NOT INVOLVED! You where only peripherally related to that conflict. I mistook you for security so i shot you once by accident. That was my fault. I had a good reason to fire at security members because they where coming to arrest me. 

Link to comment

I'll cease posting in here after this unless the admin who handles this pings me directly because it seems that my comments aren't helping and your tone is definitely not helping.

The reason why I said "Oh of course it was you." was not because I was annoyed that you shot me but because of the entirety of the situation. I was debating to myself whether or not I should ahelp him to perhaps get an admin to possibly tell them the proper way of escalation and maybe not meme so much during the round (two small things adding up to a medium thing). Realising it was you just gave me a quick bout of depression given my observations of your character during the round,  your traitor HoP I saw once, and George Butterfill or whatever their name was before I was banned for 6 months, and your actions OOC.

Understand that it's incredibly difficult to ahelp a headadmin and the host, and even more difficult to write a player/staff complaint on one who has repeatedly said several times, even jokingly, that they cannot be touched by staff complaints and has shown an absolute careless attitude when it comes to anything administration related, such as ahelps and staff complaints and has actively made fun of ongoing and previous staff complaints. You may think they're jokes, you may think they're acceptable within the kind of jokes other players make, but when you behave the way you do, even jokingly, 

Imagine seeing a player do something you think is bad enough to make an ahelp or player complaint about. Imagine then, in a single second, that you learn that they're the head admin, the host, a person who has repeatedly made fun of people making complaints and the complaints themselves, has repeatedly joked about how no staff complaint can touch them, has repeatedly been excessively confrontational in arguments, has repeatedly expressed that antags should do whatever they want, and has said in the past "That's your problem" or something along the lines of that when your way of going about things was criticized.

That's going to make you say "Oh, of course it was you." on instinct. My response was not an angry "Of course it was you." but an absolutely depressed "Of course it was you."

Link to comment

I will handle this. Except some answer this week.

But, I will make something clear; garn is just joking on the complaint thing, and he is being serious with you here, unlike on the discord that has a really different tone. Sorry, but I do not really agree that he is doing anything wrong by making those jokes, and there are a lot of examples of staff having complaints being ruled against them.

Link to comment
On 25/10/2019 at 18:05, AmoryBlaine said:

He also fell, and took zero damage making us think he ahealed which he did say he did. He did not, as confirmed to me by someone.

Quick clarification here. Literally 30 seconds after saying he ahealed himself, he corrected himself:

image.png.d9d8e5b1b687d4947bbc81678cd017a1.png

Posting this since I handled a tangential issue with Moondancer on this incident, and I have the logs on hand.

Link to comment

After looking into the round and the arguments in this complaint, I have reached the following conclusions:

- I do not really think that what he did was low rp or chucklefucking. The missfire excuse seems fine taking in consideration that security was after them, and garn even tried to explain himself after the round.

- I don't really see how what he said to you was offensive, you were pretty much the first one to start it.

- As I said, people will joke about a lot of things, which also includes ban, complaints and code. I don't see him ignoring you here or making any joke.

- Amory's point was adressed by goret in round.

Anyway, I had some trouble trying to understand what is the compaint on his in game behavior. But, as I said; I don't really think that he did anything wrong on ooc taking in consideration the situation as whole.

Also, there is enough proof of complaints that were ruled against staff, I don't think that people making jokes about them is a bad thing.

I will consider this solve, and will be closed in one day or so.

Link to comment
3 hours ago, Alberyk said:

After looking into the round and the arguments in this complaint, I have reached the following conclusions:

- I do not really think that what he did was low rp or chucklefucking. The missfire excuse seems fine taking in consideration that security was after them, and garn even tried to explain himself after the round.

- I don't really see how what he said to you was offensive, you were pretty much the first one to start it.

- As I said, people will joke about a lot of things, which also includes ban, complaints and code. I don't see him ignoring you here or making any joke.

- Amory's point was adressed by goret in round.

Anyway, I had some trouble trying to understand what is the compaint on his in game behavior. But, as I said; I don't really think that he did anything wrong on ooc taking in consideration the situation as whole.

Also, there is enough proof of complaints that were ruled against staff, I don't think that people making jokes about them is a bad thing.

I will consider this solve, and will be closed in one day or so.

Let me give you some understanding and some proof, then.

 

When I made a complaint against Lord Fowl, it wasn't addressed until he actually left despite the numerous other issues that he caused when I was gone from Aurora. Two months later, after the complaint was made, it was marked resolved because Lord Fowl left the staff team because of issues. That's a pretty big indication of something.

There is also the case where I tried to report an ex-moderator's creepy behavior erp-like to the point where I literally blocked, avoided, and stopped playing the character he was chasing after to Arrow ,but I got told it was irrelevant and not an issue. I mentioned this after my unban and after the person in question left the community, but the first thing a staff member said wasn't "Wow that's fucked up." or "Let's look into this." but rather "Why did you tell Arrow and not an admin lmao." and nothing further from that.

There is also the case where a CIAA member harassed me in OOC and on discord and we both got punished "equally" (I got a threat of permaban, they didn't) because I told them to fuck off and that their comments were unwanted. I reported it to an admin, and they ignored me until I practically ordered them to look into the matter. They got a note because of it, and as a result they made a player complaint thread that lead to me getting a warning and threatened with a ban request.

There is also the case where an admin straight up and ironically insulted me twice after a head admin told everyone to shut up and stop the shit flinging. When questioned why the head admin didn't take any action, they defended the admin saying "Oh they're just feisty like that. Don't think too much of it."

There is also the case where Garn called me retarded or disabled or something in anger. When I reported it, it was ignored long enough to the point where Garn eventually apologized for his remarks about a week or so later. I've seen non-staff members instantly get striked for that sort of thing yet I don't even think it was looked at and I don't even think Garn was talked to about it.

Then you have an instance where, in admitted annoyance and/or anger, that same Garn says "And there is nothing you can do about it." when you pseudo-complain about their actions as antag while also having a history on discord saying that they're immune to staff complaints.

 

Given all this, I genuinely think that Aurora has some sort of unfair bias in favor of staff here and what they can get away with. Any sane person who has experienced what I experienced would probably believe the same thing, and I think some people have. That is why I find jokes about staff being immune to complaints, especially staff who has a history of provoking people, to be offensive.

Link to comment
2 hours ago, BurgerBB said:

There is also the case where an admin straight up and ironically insulted me twice after a head admin told everyone to shut up and stop the shit flinging. When questioned why the head admin didn't take any action, they defended the admin saying "Oh they're just feisty like that. Don't think too much of it."

Hi that's me, don't oppose any of the other cases but this one was later taken and handled by Aboshehab. I was warned for it later on after a staff complaint was made.
Here is the full thread, with context:
 

 
 
 
 
Spoiler

 

 

Link to comment
5 hours ago, BurgerBB said:

When I made a complaint against Lord Fowl, it wasn't addressed until he actually left despite the numerous other issues that he caused when I was gone from Aurora. Two months later, after the complaint was made, it was marked resolved because Lord Fowl left the staff team because of issues. That's a pretty big indication of something.

Moderation staff do not handle staff complaints related to devs.

5 hours ago, BurgerBB said:

There is also the case where I tried to report an ex-moderator's creepy behavior erp-like to the point where I literally blocked, avoided, and stopped playing the character he was chasing after to Arrow ,but I got told it was irrelevant and not an issue. I mentioned this after my unban and after the person in question left the community, but the first thing a staff member said wasn't "Wow that's fucked up." or "Let's look into this." but rather "Why did you tell Arrow and not an admin lmao." and nothing further from that.

You should have made a complaint or told an admin, I am not going to chase ghosts, mostly when there is zero evidence of anything.

5 hours ago, BurgerBB said:

There is also the case where a CIAA member harassed me in OOC and on discord and we both got punished "equally" (I got a threat of permaban, they didn't) because I told them to fuck off and that their comments were unwanted. I reported it to an admin, and they ignored me until I practically ordered them to look into the matter. They got a note because of it, and as a result they made a player complaint thread that lead to me getting a warning and threatened with a ban request.

I mean, you were also insulting them, I don't see how that makes you right here as well. So, I do believe that a warning for both of you is fine.

5 hours ago, BurgerBB said:

There is also the case where Garn called me retarded or disabled or something in anger. When I reported it, it was ignored long enough to the point where Garn eventually apologized for his remarks about a week or so later. I've seen non-staff members instantly get striked for that sort of thing yet I don't even think it was looked at and I don't even think Garn was talked to about it.

You should have made a complaint in this case. I also don't have any recollection of this happening.

5 hours ago, BurgerBB said:

Then you have an instance where, in admitted annoyance and/or anger, that same Garn says "And there is nothing you can do about it." when you pseudo-complain about their actions as antag while also having a history on discord saying that they're immune to staff complaints.

I mean, I don't see how him being sassy is fine when you literally goes; "oh of course it was you garn" when he tries to apologize for shooting you in game by accident.

Link to comment
5 hours ago, Alberyk said:

Moderation staff do not handle staff complaints related to devs.

You should have made a complaint or told an admin, I am not going to chase ghosts, mostly when there is zero evidence of anything.

I mean, you were also insulting them, I don't see how that makes you right here as well. So, I do believe that a warning for both of you is fine.

You should have made a complaint in this case. I also don't have any recollection of this happening.

I mean, I don't see how him being sassy is fine when you literally goes; "oh of course it was you garn" when he tries to apologize for shooting you in game by accident.

"Moderation staff do not handle staff complaints related to devs."

Okay. That's not what I said. The fact that it wasn't dealt with until he left, not the fact that it wasn't dealt with by a moderator. The fact that it wasn't touched at all says something, honestly. I don't care who is supposed to look at it; that and the fact that Lord Fowl has had zero behavior change despite all his complaints.

"You should have made a complaint or told an admin, I am not going to chase ghosts, mostly when there is zero evidence of anything."

I was literally banned when I reported it. There were no head admins other than garn and garn at the time was exceptionally hostile and I couldn't contact the rest of the admins because I didn't have access to anyone's discord. Arrow was literally the only one I could talk to, and at the time, he was handling things with people shitposting on my ban appeal thread. When I did bring it up after I was banned, no one took it seriously and staff rather chastise me for not making an official complaint. The point of me bringing this up because a staff member saw no issue with it when I reported it.

"I mean, you were also insulting them, I don't see how that makes you right here as well. So, I do believe that a warning for both of you is fine."

I just told them to fuck off and that they were being an asshole when they were insulting and trashtalking me in public channels on multiple occasions. Telling someone who is harassing you that they're being an asshole is absolutely nothing worth warning the victim over, and it is literally in line with the behavior of most members here. Like even if you look on the discord and search "being an asshole" you'll see several staff members, including mods, unironically tell other users to stop being an asshole in heated conversations or in general conversation.  Regardless, It should absolutely matter who was trying to provoke the other. Like imagine being a staff member and the first thing you do to a dude who just got off a permaban is try to bait them into behavior that would get them banned, and then when you were noted for the behavior, you double down by asking for the member in question you're harassing to be permabanned in a staff complaint. That behavior wasn't even addressed at all despite how obvious it was.

"You should have made a complaint in this case. I also don't have any recollection of this happening."

The beauty is that I reported it in a complaint. It wasn't addressed or anything at all for about a week until garn eventually apologized for it.

"I mean, I don't see how him being sassy is fine when you literally goes; "oh of course it was you garn" when he tries to apologize for shooting you in game by accident."

I mean, I'm assuming you mean "I don't see him being sassy is an issue if you were sassy.", and if so, that's pretty fucking ironic here considering in this instance you're going "Well since you provoked him, it's fine." but in the instance where another staff member literally baited and tried to get me banned it's "Oh both sides are at fault. Oh, I'm just going to hand out warnings. Oh, it seems the warning I'm giving you is more serious that the other person's warning."

And as for the coalf thing it shouldn't have taken a complaint. I literally told staff on discord about it and had a conversation, as linked there, and they found no issue with it. I shouldn't have had to make a complaint about it. The point of me bringing it up was not that it wasn't dealt with, but the fact that it wasn't dealt with at the time because of an excuse made by a head administrator, justifying the behavior.

And honestly I think you're not getting the point of this. I've told you why I feel that the jokes are inappropriate. My post is not an attack on staff or some sort of accusation post, but rather the reason why I believe that there is genuinely some sort of issue going on in with behavior. Like I shitpost as much as anyone, I hang out with shitposters as much as anyone, but the sort of shit that staff seem to get away with is just appalling. I've talked to people about this, inside and outside the server, which is why I don't immediately think I'm insane when I write multiparagraph posts about how Aurorastation has staff issues and they haven't changed despite promises to change. I don't know if you know this, but staff make themselves absolutely unapproachable when they shitpost "find out icly" when new players ask in ooc for help, or "make a staff complaint" when users report issues to admins, despite it being small, and then finally "just ahelp it" in discord conversations when people try to talk about the bigger picture of terrible behavior by certain groups of people, whether they be security players, antags, or staff themselves. Believe it or not, people don't bring up issues to complain, they bring it up because they want to see some change for the better.

Link to comment

If there is anyone's fault on fowl's case is from the headdevs, nothing I can do in here. Sorry, but it is not good to step on other people's toes in this case, unless needed.

And the complaint that involved name callings, both of them, were ruled against him. So, I dont really think we are ignoring stuff here.

On the mod stuff: I looked the dates, and I was the headmin at the time, you even spoke to me about the possibility of them influencing the ban, which I did look into with and found no evidence of that. On the erp stuff, you told about it, but with zero example or evidence of anything, nothing really I could do in tjis situation. So, both of us are somewhat wrong in the details, but if you wanted to make a complaint while banned, that would be fine because there is a role which lets people do this even forum banned, which you made use of

Sorry, but there is a giant difference between saying what and you garn said, and outright calling each other cunts. I even took in consideration the context of you being provoked to dont permaban you. I will also take the context in consideration, otherwise you would also deserve to be banned.

And on coalf complaint, it is proof that complaints do work. If you want to change your argument here due to that, it is kinda bad faith.

But, I will what the others head of staff have to say about this. I will return tomorrow or sunday.

 

 

Link to comment
49 minutes ago, Alberyk said:

If there is anyone's fault on fowl's case is from the headdevs, nothing I can do in here. Sorry, but it is not good to step on other people's toes in this case, unless needed.

And the complaint that involved name callings, both of them, were ruled against him. So, I dont really think we are ignoring stuff here.

On the mod stuff: I looked the dates, and I was the headmin at the time, you even spoke to me about the possibility of them influencing the ban, which I did look into with and found no evidence of that. On the erp stuff, you told about it, but with zero example or evidence of anything, nothing really I could do in tjis situation. So, both of us are somewhat wrong in the details, but if you wanted to make a complaint while banned, that would be fine because there is a role which lets people do this even forum banned, which you made use of

Sorry, but there is a giant difference between saying what and you garn said, and outright calling each other cunts. I even took in consideration the context of you being provoked to dont permaban you. I will also take the context in consideration, otherwise you would also deserve to be banned.

And on coalf complaint, it is proof that complaints do work. If you want to change your argument here due to that, it is kinda bad faith.

But, I will what the others head of staff have to say about this. I will return tomorrow or sunday.

Lord Fowl wasn't banned or removed from his position from what I heard despite the amount of shit flinging he's done to others. The rulings of his complaints clearly did not change his attitude and he continued being an ass to others until he apparently left on his own accord. I mean sure, problem solved, but I don't understand why there was so much lenience.

With the erp stuff, I recall saying to Arrow or someone "Hey uh, I don't think this guy is acting in good faith because of creepy erp stuff." and they said it didn't matter. Evidence wasn't brought up or anything because I specifically recall that someone said that the incident was irrelevant and wouldn't matter when it comes to a complaint against me so I stopped there. If someone said that it wasn't even a crime to begin with, why would I bother to bring up the evidence especially when the issue is exceptionally sensitive and deserves private discussion?

I don't really know how to explain to you how me telling someone that they're acting like a cunt and garn saying to me "And there is nothing you can do about it." when garn has a history of making fun of my complaints as a member of staff is in the same league. They're both shitty behavior and deserve some sort of action.

Let me post what I said initially about the coalf stuff.

Quote

There is also the case where an admin straight up and ironically insulted me twice after a head admin told everyone to shut up and stop the shit flinging. When questioned why the head admin didn't take any action, they defended the admin saying "Oh they're just feisty like that. Don't think too much of it."

This isn't me changing my point. This is the case of a head admin literally justifying shitty behavior because that's just how they behave. As I said before, I shouldn't have to make a staff complaint to appeal a decision like this because in no world should it be okay for an admin to justify this sort of behavior. My point is that staff let staff get away with shit. Bringing up "Oh, you made a complaint about it and it was ruled against Coalf's behavior" changes very little.

I am happy that you're bringing this issue up with staff, though, and I think you for that. Again my "goal" here is not to demand everyone that has wronged me to be permabanned but to ensure shit like this doesn't happen. Like sometimes I think that others think I'm doing this to complain, but I kinda give a shit about Aurora to the point where I've spent 10 hours out of my weekend coding PRs and 2 hours writing complaints or making posts that would hopefully help Aurora for the better.

Link to comment

Well. Alberyk requested that I read the complaint and provide input. So here I am.

Regarding your comments on Garn's gameplay. I cannot say whether or not his conduct is within the rules, since I've not been privy to it firsthand, and not enough specifics have been dropped to describe it. But I can comment on your method of phrasing it:

On 25/10/2019 at 12:00, BurgerBB said:

I'm an advocate of good fun, but the way Garnascus behaves using their character intentionally mimics that of a new player unfamiliar to RP and it just seems malicious with all things considered.

To say this requires you to make a call on Garn's intent. In two parts, actually. First, it requires you to say that, "Garn is doing this in order to pretend that he's a new player," and secondly, it requires you to say that, "He is doing it to be malicious." This requires you to disregard any other explanation for these actions and to be fully convinced that he's doing it to be a jackass. Which is not usually a judgement call that the administration makes, or makes easily. Specially when there are more common explanations to describe the actions in question (playing unknown characters is a known trend among server leadership here and abroad; Garn's play style could just be what it is, there does not need to be malice behind it; etc).

That said. There is also the mechanic of too much borderline stupid IC behaviour resulting in a cumulative punishment. Which can be reviewed if necessary.

Regarding the matter of Garn's posting on Discord. These are largely to be determined by context. Most of the time, it's fine, until an actually legitimate issue comes up for discussion. The devs and contributors go, "Fuck the playerbase" every once in a while, or smirkingly tell players to code shit themselves. The admins moan about complaints. Etcetera. This, IMO, is all fine, as long as the context isn't serious about a specific issue. At which point, it should be reeled in and a more professional tone assumed while addressing the matter.

What's more, out of your screenshot compendium, most if not all had a non-serious context to them. Aand in the ones where the context was serious, Garn was talking shop.

I also find it difficult to believe that we've banned or otherwise punished people for lighthearted comments akin to those situations. You're free to cite evidence that I can look up to the contrary, but it takes a lot of sword clashing to get punished for OOC/Discord conduct. As was the case with Nanako, you, a good few other names. And the rope extended is sometimes pretty long (funnily enough, mostly due to the first principle I outlined above).

We do occasionally police the tone of discussions, which you might interpret as "Getting in trouble", but that's highly context dependent. The main objective there is to stop a discussion that is about to get heated, or has already gotten heated.

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...