[Resolved] Staff Complaint - SonicGotNuked

[Naia]

BYOND Key: Naiatis

Staff BYOND Key: SonicGotNuked/ReadThisNamePlz

Game ID:   b50-aaFP

Reason for complaint:  Given a warning undeservedly. Repeatedly shrugged off and avoided when asking for clarification and guidance moving forward. Given vague answers and told to complain, when I was trying how to learn what to do differently. 

Evidence/logs/etc: (See image: Within is the escalation that occured before the conflict. In addition to this, I crashed and do not have the log, but prior to the combat, there was an instance of me being caught by the target with C-4 planted on the side of the ship 15-25 minutes before this, weaseled my way out of that and made sure Moxi was to bitch about the 'lack of story' throughout the trip. The goal was to make a story by downing the research team and turning the ship around, ideally making a political situation erupt through the madness. 

Additional remarks:
I don't like complaining, I have nothing against either admins involved. I had to open like 3-4 tickets in 10 minutes asking for guidance, not trying to complain, before I got anything close to a real answer. I just don't know how I could have done differently because when referencing the rules, I can't find a broken one. I let them draw weapons and begin before acting, and when I downed them all I did not execute any of them. I was however killed due to this mistake and thought that was fine, yet when I was killed immediately after going down I found it very disheartening that I was the one being warned. Anyway- when I wanted to learn more, I was told to complain here and brushed off before I could finish responding. I'd just like to be treated with some more care next time i'm punished, because it only serves to make me feel disdained and unwanted when two separate admins close my tickets without warning. Thank you.

[sonicgotnuked]

I'm going to summarize what I already said and why there was a warning.

 

The shuttle was boarded. Everyone was going back to the station after successful trade with the Unathi. Naia threw a viscerator onto the floor and went to the back room. While I can speculate the situation and if they stacked a few behind the door, I know for certain that they kept throwing viscerators until about 5 grenades were in battle. Then the player left the backroom and opened fire on the team.

 

I really don't know how to explain other then this being gank. There was not enough escalation to warrant this kind of behavior and suddenly go "Oh you're all going to die now" before spawning in a critical mass of viscerators against 4-6 people inside a closed space.

 

Escalation has steps which were skipped in this situation. It is impossible for me to know exactly what happened or handhold exactly each moment on what to say can be better or how they could of handled the situation better. I've been very clear that they worked to gank the entire research team with a radio jammer inside their pocket so they couldn't call for help and I stepped in to inform the player that this was gank and applied this warning:

Murder at this scale needs more buildup before hand. I can't word it more differently then that.

[Naia]

The way in which the battle was fought isn't a factor,  the intention was to down them. I already avoided killing the other characters, which voids the gank claim doesn't it? Should I not have used a radio jammer, allowing everyone to know? Viscerators don't keep going for the kill, and if you'd read the full complaint you would know what led up to that point. In fact, the rule itself states that killing is what constitutes a gank;

Quote

No ganking. While antags will sometimes kill, it is expected for you to provide interesting roleplay to your targets first, if your goal is assassination. This does not mean that you need to monologue your opponent before killing them: roleplay leading up to a murder can take place over the course of the entire round, for example, leaving the murder scene itself to be “wordless”. Collateral damage is acceptable within reason, but this means you must use common sense, and avoid creating scenarios with a lot of potential for collateral (setting bombs in high-traffic areas, etc.)

I didn't kill them, they even got up a few times and ended up killing me. As well, being caught with explosives is a pretty big red flag, disappearing for long periods to examine the ship exterior and interior on two separate occasions despite being told not to by the director, being questioned by part of the research team and followed. I made sure that my enemies had ample time to react as per the screenshot provided. If you pull up logs you'll see plenty of time. It was a dastardly, cheap way to win. I know that. But I wasn't told that was wrong. I was told I didn't escalate enough, and that I had ganked them. ?

By the logic alone of this;  

Quote

It is impossible for me to know exactly what happened or handhold exactly each moment on what to say can be better or how they could of handled the situation better.

Making the assessment that there was not ample escalation despite what was presented would be fairly unwise, don't you think? If you don't know where I went wrong then making the judgement on whether or not ample actions were taken beforehand is also just as unwise, and pretty unfair.

Autotraitor made me a traitor as I joined the expedition. Every action I took that round was within the confines of that ship, or outside it, doing traitor stuff. I didn't throw any viscerators beforehand, I threw the grenades after initiating combat. 

I wanted to know how I could have done that differently to avoid the boink. You shrugged me off and repeated the same thing. You two were pretty avoidant about the matter, when all I wanted to know was what you thought I could do differently. Now it kind of seems like you didn't even read the logs, or trust any of what I said, because if you did maybe you'd of offered a suggestion instead of closing my tickets repeatedly despite it being a new round. I found it pretty rude, and doubly so that you say "escalation has steps you missed" but have neglected- through numerous tickets- to explain which ones I missed. I wanted to know specifics so I could avoid getting in trouble and it ended up with you guys repeating yourselves and telling me to come here to complain. Well here I am, please go into the steps. Because despite you admitting previously in this thread that you don't know what happened exactly, you seem pretty sure of the fact that it was a poorly escalated gank. 

[sonicgotnuked]

I really can not explain further the rule you broke, which follows under poor escalation, and gank. Now I will follow hypothetical situations in my futile effort at explaining how ludicrous escalation it is for blowing up a random locker suddenly allowing the escalation to kill everyone. Yes, that is what the intent was. To kill them.

 

Joe Bro is your average traitor crashing the deeds and slapping the needs. Security of course is the problem, snooping into his bag, or with a dastardly fascination to the gun in his hand. Why does he have a gun you may ask? Well of course it's a shoot people! Those questioning officers are rather snoopy for prying into his personal business. Business that involves loading several bullets into the skulls of everyone nearby just because everyone needs to be a bit more open minded to gun control! The ticking clock of the shuttle bell rings in. Pressed against time. The bullet slotted. With that evil glint in his eyes. He thinks about how security caught him with his unloaded gun. He thinks about the suspicions he managed to gain! Those minds floating towards the shuttle, minding their own business, as innocent co-workers become target practice to fill those empty skulls. Why, he didn't kill them when one brave soul bashed their skull in. Hence, it is not gank despite them bleeding out all across the hard metal floor. But it's fine because they were not killed! They're only dying. 

 

I can repeat myself over and over. There was poor escalation. That's what went wrong. It falls under gank.

 

I'm done explaining my side. I'm letting other staff look over this now.

[Flamingo]

Hello. I will be handling this complaint. Please be patient while I sift through the logs. Thank you. 

[Naia]

Thank you very much Flamingo, and thank you for your further comment Sonic. I said my piece and trust admins to look through the logs and the tickets to investigate where or if I messed up. I understand any delay, I know things are complicated for a lot of people right now. Take care.

[Flamingo]

Alright, I apologize for the wait time. I've been out of town for the past few days. I forced @BearSchwanz to assist me with this complaint, and after reviewing the logs, and both parties' testimonies here, we've both reached the same conclusion: the application of a warning in this instance is valid. 

While it is true you had an interaction earlier in the round over a planted C-4, we deemed your use of several viscerator grenades to be overkill for the amount of escalation you had done throughout the round. As you quoted:

Quote

No ganking. While antags will sometimes kill, it is expected for you to provide interesting roleplay to your targets first, if your goal is assassination. This does not mean that you need to monologue your opponent before killing them: roleplay leading up to a murder can take place over the course of the entire round, for example, leaving the murder scene itself to be “wordless”. Collateral damage is acceptable within reason, but this means you must use common sense, and avoid creating scenarios with a lot of potential for collateral (setting bombs in high-traffic areas, etc.)

In regards to not killing: it is true you did not kill them (or intend to), but you caused a lot of damage, and the rule also states in the second half that you should avoid causing large amounts of collateral damage. Furthermore, our rules state you should seek to drive a story with your actions. Simply causing a lot of damage to the expedition party as they finally decide to head back is not very fun or engaging for anyone. It is akin to when someone doesn't do anything as antag for the round (or gets antagged right near the end) and then suddenly decides to attack people right as the shuttle docks. If you want to cause damage such as this in the future, it is my recommendation that you work up to it with smaller, but increasingly hostile acts. Make threats, take a few shots at someone and slip away, be clear that you are going to do something bad if they make for the shuttle. It may end poorly for you, but you'll have provided something exciting for the expedition crew to deal with. 

To conclude, we will be upholding the warning. You said you wanted to understand what you did wrong, and I hope that Bear and I have been able to explain a little more in-depth where you went wrong in your decisions this round. If there are no further concerns, I will lock and archive this thread in 24 hours. 

[Flamingo]

Locking and Archiving.