Staff Complaint - Alberyk

[CampinKiller]

BYOND Key: CampinKiller

Staff BYOND Key: Alberyk

b]Game ID:[/b] b80-aFQc

Reason for complaint: Giving me a warning for powergaming by carrying a .45 with lethal rounds. In extended. 

Evidence/logs/etc:

As explained to Alb in the logs I will post below, it is something I have done since the worm event where Price was nearly killed, as his (then energy pistol) was next to useless for him. It is also something I used to do when I played here previously, with absolutely no issue. The HoS has absolute authority over the armory, and can check out a weapon as he pleases. If I prefer to carry the .45 as opposed to the blaster pistol, how is this an issue? Is there some codicil in the rules that say I can only carry the gun in my locker? It's not powergaming to want to carry a different weapon than what I am issued. This weapon was literally standard issue to officers as of 3 days ago, and now it's powergaming to carry it with lethal ammunition? It's no different than carrying the blaster set to lethal. Worms attacking the station may not happen every round, but it sure as shit happened very recently, and somewhere around 10-15 crewmembers died in a murder-spree the same month, I don't see it a stretch that someone would consider the station unsafe.

I also wish to point out the (although true in this case) assumption that "you may have done it in other rounds, so here is a warning," is equivalent to assuming guilt until proven otherwise.

Additional remarks: I would like this warning removed. And maybe Alb to be a little more polite in ahelps instead of being aggressive and dismissing any reasoning as excuses or lies. I also realized that he had to VV to even see I had a pistol, and that coupled with being accused of lying about accidentally deleting a character last month, after I'd previously explained that situation to administration, makes me feel targeted. I do not believe it to be the case, but it is how it feels when you are being bwoinked out of the blue.

[Alberyk]

 

13 minutes ago, CampinKiller said:

As explained to Alb in the logs I will post below, it is something I have done since the worm event where Price was nearly killed, as his (then energy pistol) was next to useless for him.

I fail to see how being hurt or anything by something that happened on the station is an excuse to carry a pistol loaded only with lethals at round start as the hos, when you already have a gun that can fire lethals. Following this logic, anyone could start packing all the guns and weapons they could.

13 minutes ago, CampinKiller said:

The HoS has absolute authority over the armory, and can check out a weapon as he pleases.

Still need a reason to carry lethal weapons besides of what you get in the locker. The head of security should not take stuff from the armory because they want another gun.

13 minutes ago, CampinKiller said:

This weapon was literally standard issue to officers as of 3 days ago, and now it's powergaming to carry it with lethal ammunition?

It was issued with less than lethals, you were carrying it with lethals.

13 minutes ago, CampinKiller said:

It's no different than carrying the blaster set to lethal. Worms attacking the station may not happen every round, but it sure as shit happened very recently, and somewhere around 10-15 crewmembers died in a murder-spree the same month, I don't see it a stretch that someone would consider the station unsafe.

The head of security already has a gun that can fire lethal bolts of energy. Pointing out every wacky stuff that happens once in a while to justify carrying lethal ammo is really trying to grasp on straws.

13 minutes ago, CampinKiller said:

I also wish to point out the (although true in this case) assumption that "you may have done it in other rounds, so here is a warning," is equivalent to assuming guilt until proven otherwise.

You literally said you did in the ahelp and in this complaint. Even if it was the first time you did it would be powergaming, even if it was extended. Besides, changing what you do based on what gamemode is would be metagaming.

Also, I saw you taking stuff from the armory because I was ghosting around.

[Garnascus]

11 minutes ago, CampinKiller said:

As explained to Alb in the logs I will post below, it is something I have done since the worm event where Price was nearly killed

If worms attack during the round feel free to go and get lethals. We have not and never will allow players to carry weapons "just in case". 

29 minutes ago, CampinKiller said:

It's not powergaming to want to carry a different weapon than what I am issued. This weapon was literally standard issue to officers as of 3 days ago, and now it's powergaming to carry it with lethal ammunition?

It was standard issue with rubber rounds. We have always bwoinked security officers carrying lethal rounds for no reason. We will continue to do so. 

30 minutes ago, CampinKiller said:

It's no different than carrying the blaster set to lethal.

I think it is different. Setting your blaster to lethal requires a conscious choice, by default it is on stun. The assumption being you do not switch it to lethal until you have a good reason. In the case of lethal rounds you where carrying them before you had a good reason and as alberyk explained to you being attacked by phoron worms is not a good reason. Stretched to its logical conclusion that would allow any crew member who was attacked by the worms to be allowed to carry guns at any time on extended. 

[CampinKiller]

Three things:

1. If I decided to not carry the blaster, but carried a .45 loaded with rubbers while also carrying a lethal magazine on my person, is that considered powergaming? It is no different (and actually longer to switch) than the blaster switching from stun to lethal.

2. I feel like there is a major disconnect between the events on the station and the enforcement of this rule. Canon events that involve character trauma and death, per the rules, say that it should be taken into account by the characters. Yet when done so, it is powergaming to carry a different pistol loaded for bear. We cannot simultaneously claim the Aurora is an incredibly safe and secure place when, in the last month, almost 20 people were killed on the station by various attackers. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

3. This is considered powergaming, but antag janitors somehow knowing where the Captain's spare is and rushing for it at roundstart with no command isn't? Or a stealth cult emptying the armory of all the weapons so security can't respond when they go loud isn't? God forbid, though, the HoS carries a different lethal weapon because of actual canonical reasoning.

Also not really sure about Garn handling this complaint after he popped in the Sec discord yesterday and made fun of my additional comments.

[Alberyk]

5 minutes ago, CampinKiller said:

1. If I decided to not carry the blaster, but carried a .45 loaded with rubbers while also carrying a lethal magazine on my person, is that considered powergaming? It is no different (and actually longer to switch) than the blaster switching from stun to lethal.

There is zero reason to do that besides wanting lethals bullets to break the antag's ribs and make sure they die.

6 minutes ago, CampinKiller said:

2. I feel like there is a major disconnect between the events on the station and the enforcement of this rule. Canon events that involve character trauma and death, per the rules, say that it should be taken into account by the characters. Yet when done so, it is powergaming to carry a different pistol loaded for bear. We cannot simultaneously claim the Aurora is an incredibly safe and secure place when, in the last month, almost 20 people were killed on the station by various attackers. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

 

The hos has a gun that can fire lethal rounds. Security has an entire armory with laser rifles. Cargo can order more guns. Robotics can print combat mechs. Just because you can't pick up those things and blast thing right away, it does not mean they don't exist. The station and security are not defenseless. I am sure that most people would not like if everyone started to carry weapons because people died on station. Following that logic, any cargo tech could just start making weapons and ordering guns because they were hurt during some canon event. No one wants this to be a thing, security does not get a free pass to powergame, sorry.

7 minutes ago, CampinKiller said:

3. This is considered powergaming, but antag janitors somehow knowing where the Captain's spare is and rushing for it at roundstart with no command isn't? Or a stealth cult emptying the armory of all the weapons so security can't respond when they go loud isn't? God forbid, though, the HoS carries a different lethal weapon because of actual canonical reasoning.

Antags and regular crewmembers are different, they have totally different motivations and reasons. Antags don't have the same motivations and reasons to be on the station like regular characters that are just there to visit/work.

[CampinKiller]

On 16/09/2020 at 14:17, Alberyk said:

There is zero reason to do that besides wanting lethals bullets to break the antag's ribs and make sure they die.

Ah yes, didn't know you could read my mind and know my intentions. God forbid somebody actually prefer ballistics to laser weaponry for reasons other than 'unga dunga valids'. It's quite literally the exact same as carrying a blaster, except you have even more limited ammunition and cannot recharge. 

[Garnascus]

The HoS. the HoP and the captain have always spawned with some form of a laser or taser in their locker. Thus we have always allowed them to have it on their purpose. The RD i believe has a flash in his locker and is of course allowed to carry that. HoS's get the lions share of this deal as their locker comes with most of the stuff an officer could be expected to carry plus a disruptor pistol. They have always spawned with a laser device in some form or another in that locker. 

We have literally NEVER allowed people to get additional weapons or equipment from the armory without a good reason. This is not some new policy we made up to spite you. It is how aurora has operated since i have been on staff and probably even before that i would suspect. 

On 16/09/2020 at 15:08, CampinKiller said:

I feel like there is a major disconnect between the events on the station and the enforcement of this rule. Canon events that involve character trauma and death, per the rules, say that it should be taken into account by the characters. Yet when done so, it is powergaming to carry a different pistol loaded for bear

There are ways to do this without making yourself better equipped. Have your officers patrol for worms, send in security officers to escort engineers who go to fix hull breaches because you definitely know by know thats how the worm gets in. Even when the worm is burrowing through the ground you can see the impression it makes as it travels through solid rock and metal. A phoron worm does not just suddenly de-cloak from invisibility and crit you horizontal such that the only thing that could save you is a magazine of lethal rounds. On top of this alberyk and i have already provided you with reasons why this line of thinking will NEVER be permitted. 

On 16/09/2020 at 15:17, Alberyk said:

This is considered powergaming, but antag janitors somehow knowing where the Captain's spare is and rushing for it at roundstart with no command isn't? Or a stealth cult emptying the armory of all the weapons so security can't respond when they go loud isn't?

Thats correct.  

[CampinKiller]

Yeah this can be canned, I don’t really care enough to keep it open

[Garnascus]

All that needs to be said has been said.