Travis Davis.

[Tainavaa]

BYOND Key: Tainavaa

Player Byond Key: xXTheFurryXx

Reason for complaint: Self antagging(?), Telescience abuse

Approximate Date/Time: March 24, ~0230 hrs, -5 UTC

Travis Davis teleported monkey cubes to the brig lobby and teleported something else in to expand all of them to monkeys. He wasn't a traitor. Gettin' real tired.

Logs for reference. MS paint cropped for relevance.

 

[Guest]

That response is honestly very unbecoming for a regular in science. Especially science.

If not self-antagging, that situation sounded like a whole lot of chucklefucking/very mild griefing to me.

Teleporting water bombs and monkey cubes to the security lobby because lul is indicative of abusing station equipment to get a kick out of pissing people off.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I mean I'm all for fun and games and the occasional practical joke by science (or by itself, like my stoolpocalypse during deadhour) but this is a consistent and ongoing issue with telescience. There's not enough usefulness coming out of it to balance out the practical jokes and pranks. The same things happen over and over and over and I agree that it really needs to be toned down a few levels.

[canon35]

This is kind of the same thing with the greasers, once everyone 3 days, a week, month, is fine. But don't just keep doing it, do it in moderation.

[Blue]

I remember Skull doing something exactly like this in medbay, and everyone thought it was hilarious.

But seriously, this seems like an IC issue. Nobody was harmed. Just a bunch of monkeys that you could have disposed of. I don't see how this could be considered self antagging at all.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I remember Skull doing something exactly like this in medbay, and everyone thought it was hilarious.

But seriously, this seems like an IC issue. Nobody was harmed. Just a bunch of monkeys that you could have disposed of. I don't see how this could be considered self antagging at all.

 

See, I'd agree with you completely, but it happens all the time. Imagine Skull did that every other round, or everytime he got access to telescience. It's too much.

[Blue]

I remember Skull doing something exactly like this in medbay, and everyone thought it was hilarious.

But seriously, this seems like an IC issue. Nobody was harmed. Just a bunch of monkeys that you could have disposed of. I don't see how this could be considered self antagging at all.

 

See, I'd agree with you completely, but it happens all the time. Imagine Skull did that every other round, or everytime he got access to telescience. It's too much.

 

Well, we've got a duty officer program for that sort of thing. Just file an incident report and cite "He's been doing it way too often" and leave it IC.

[Tainavaa]

I remember Skull doing something exactly like this in medbay, and everyone thought it was hilarious.

But seriously, this seems like an IC issue. Nobody was harmed. Just a bunch of monkeys that you could have disposed of. I don't see how this could be considered self antagging at all.

 

See, I'd agree with you completely, but it happens all the time. Imagine Skull did that every other round, or everytime he got access to telescience. It's too much.

 

Well, we've got a duty officer program for that sort of thing. Just file an incident report and cite "He's been doing it way too often" and leave it IC.

 

I considered making an incident report but considering what I've been told and seeing his offenses IC and OOC I decided it was more fitting for a complaint. I don't care if Skull did it to the medbay once, I wasn't there and couldn't find it hilarious. That point is irrelevant.

I'm tired of Travis abusing telescience all the time and only getting a slap on the hand. The duty officer program has so far failed in moderating him because from what I've told he's been yelled at before but all he's done in response is go something along the lines of "Okay" and move on to some other annoying thing to do. Unless Travis decides to keep it canon that he's no longer able to be in science because of an executive decision by duty officers, I know for a fact he's going to keep pulling different shit and say "Oh I stopped doing those other things". It's a vicious cycle and up until now I haven't cared enough to make a formal complaint because I was sure at some point he was going to be corrected. However it's clear he has no intent of rehabilitating his behavior. I'm tired of it.

Even from the logs I've posted it's clear that he finds annoying people with telescience - for no reason other than to be annoying - fun. After all, science needs to meet fun needs too you know.

Edit: I also don't think I can technically file an incident report because according to the forensic technician at the time, "We had no evidence" which seemed ridiculous to me because there were sparks, she found something to do with budget insulated gloves in her investigation and no one else on the station was wearing them at the time. Even so, telescience is common knowledge in the station and people are pretty familiar with what entails. So according to the forensic technician, "we couldn't prove it".

[the_furry]

Ok now that I am home I can actually reply to what everyone is saying. Frist off I would like to apologize for any miscommunication or behavior that has caused anyone to be upset oocly. I enjoy this game a lot and do not wish to upset people in RL. I have always said if I have upset you by doing something, you can always approach me and talk to me about it so we can come to a mutual agreement and everyone might be happy (I try my best to be as approachable as possible). Sadly it is pretty rare for anyone to actually tell me they are upset with something I’ve done and give me the chance to work it out and correct it.

Now although I am apologizing for causing upset feelings, I do not believe I have acted in anyway that should cause me to get into trouble and cause this character complaint to exist. This complaint is exaggerated and misinformed at best and downright dishonest and unfair at worse. Please, allow me to break down why I am not doing anything wrong.

Frist, thank you blue, I have gone through lengthy conversation with the admins on exactly what is and is not allowed to be done with telescience (much of what was agreed upon is actually what is spoken here). A prime example of this is that skull has done the exact same thing and in fact it is he that my idea was derived from. So the actual act of what I did is not necessarily bad (as jackboot appears to concede). This is not mindless chucklefuckery (such a buzzword). Is it annoying to some people? Probably, I’ve been annoyed with a lot of people over this game. It also produced some nice role play with a forensic tech that was hell bent on catching travis. It also had a lot of people laughing. Chucklefuckery tends to not produce any role play or laughs except for the one person that did it (welder bombing).

From here the complaint shifted to “ok, but doing it all the time is a real problem”, voiced by jackboot, cannon and tainavaa. You know what I have to say to that? Fine, I agree, I would hate it if someone abused telescience all the time and fucked around like that. Let me take one moment to point out I’ve not worked in telescience in 2 weeks. In fact the lengthy conversation I had with the admins about telescinece and what I was allowed to do in it included a time limit, of which I have done way less then what the admins said I could. So this statement that “I'm tired of Travis abusing telescience all the time” is simply not true and exaggerated. Pointedly, because I’ve not worked in telescience in over two weeks. Secondarily, when I was working in it more, I would not do this more than once a day. This is exactly the timeframes you guys are suggesting. So what is the problem here? The act itself (be it annoying) is not anything that is unacceptable in moderation, and I moderate it.

The complaints are air and best suited for IC issues. This brings me to my next part, tainavaa you are once again wrong or at least have been told wrong, the duty officers have never spoken to travis on any incident. The closest that it came was some IAA officers spoke to him and we had some pretty awesome RP in which travis is now on an injunction and that is cannon. The only downside here is there is no evidence (and yes I take great pride in that) to submit an IC report. If you really think about it, that is not much different than the countless people that will take a shift just to mess around then say it is not cannon at the end of the round (something to my understanding happens quite often). I say it’s not that different because you really can’t write a character complaint about it because what the actual character is doing is not necessarily wrong (as I established) and because it’s not cannon you can’t do an IC report either. Only in my case, if you ever catch me in the act, you do get to write an incident report.

Banning him from telescience over this is extremely unfair. I have been here for 4+months using telescience this way. I established with the admins early on what is right and wrong. It is agreed (even here) that a monkey bomb is not that big of a deal. I only do this once every few days (something everyone agrees is ok). Many more people have done many more worse things (repetitively) then what travis has done. So even if we pursue this ICly a complete removal out of science would be extremely unfair to me as a player.

I am sorry that you are so upset, I really wish you came to me to discuss it because I would do what I can to be considerate of your feelings and seek to adjust my behavior so that we may both enjoy this game. That is how I operate. But I do not want to be removed out of science over this and I think it is unfair that is what you are trying to suggest here.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Guest

[Witt]

OK, couple quick notes, Travis has yet to actually be investigated by a D.O. mostly due to lack of complaints.

You can post a complaint even without solid proof, D.O.s are able to launch inquires.

If you wish to settle it oocly that is fine otherwise I am certain at least one D.O. can look into an IC solution

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

-snip-

 

I was not aware of your extended hiatus and discussion with admins. Following my own proposed logic, you're not really in the wrong here.

I withdraw my support for the complaint based on Furry's testimonial, lest I be a hypocrite.

[Valkrae]

Allow me to add a few things.

Almost every shift that I see you on as a Telescientist, you end up messing about around the station with /something/. Yes, you may not have played Telescience in a while, but that doesn't mean you don't chucklefuck when you do play as a Telescientist.

Another issue is when I see you play Xenobiologist. You rush bluespace slimes, and immediately abandon Xenobio to go play Telescientist.

I feel as if there should be at least a discussion on the proper usage of Science as a whole, as it seems that certain positions are abused, and some positions are abandoned after a certain point is reached.

[Tainavaa]

Frist, thank you blue, I have gone through lengthy conversation with the admins on exactly what is and is not allowed to be done with telescience (much of what was agreed upon is actually what is spoken here). A prime example of this is that skull has done the exact same thing and in fact it is he that my idea was derived from. So the actual act of what I did is not necessarily bad (as jackboot appears to concede). This is not mindless chucklefuckery (such a buzzword). Is it annoying to some people? Probably, I’ve been annoyed with a lot of people over this game. It also produced some nice role play with a forensic tech that was hell bent on catching travis. It also had a lot of people laughing. Chucklefuckery tends to not produce any role play or laughs except for the one person that did it (welder bombing).

 

Perhaps you didn't read my earliest post. I don't care if Skull has done it before. Even if he had done it before that doesn't excuse you. Depending on the context it might have been acceptable. I don't know. This complaint isn't about what stupid thing Skull has done, it's about something you've done and not only that but consistently. The issue isn't you doing one thing wrong, it's you doing a lot of things wrong over a long period of time.

 

From here the complaint shifted to “ok, but doing it all the time is a real problem”, voiced by jackboot, cannon and tainavaa. You know what I have to say to that? Fine, I agree, I would hate it if someone abused telescience all the time and fucked around like that. Let me take one moment to point out I’ve not worked in telescience in 2 weeks. In fact the lengthy conversation I had with the admins about telescinece and what I was allowed to do in it included a time limit, of which I have done way less then what the admins said I could. So this statement that “I'm tired of Travis abusing telescience all the time” is simply not true and exaggerated. Pointedly, because I’ve not worked in telescience in over two weeks. Secondarily, when I was working in it more, I would not do this more than once a day. This is exactly the timeframes you guys are suggesting. So what is the problem here? The act itself (be it annoying) is not anything that is unacceptable in moderation, and I moderate it.

 

The fact that you keep yourself from playing telescience to pull that stuff is ridiculous and would only support a move for a job ban. You DO pull this "all the time" in that you do it whenever you're in telescience. My issue isn't that you're chucklefucking whatever job you play. My issue is that you're chucklefucking whenever you're in telescience, at least a LOT of the time to the point where I personally can not ignore it anymore. When you play telescience, there is a difference between playing a telescientist every day and pulling shit once or twice a month and playing telescientist once or twice a month and pulling shit every time. The same amount of offenses? Sure, but the ratio of amount of times played to offenses accrued is drastically different. So no, it isn't untrue nor is it exaggerated because as I see it, you monkey-bombed the security lobby. You've metagamed and powergamed telescience rushing top secret and unauthorized equipment on and off the station and lied about it, and have generally been a nuisance in telescience. Do you do that anymore? No. Maybe, I honestly don't know. What I DO know, is a pattern I'm seeing in that you'll get your wrist slapped, say okay, and move on to some other thing which I stated earlier in my complaint.

What you're doing here is meeting a quota. You're doing the maximum annoyance you can be without getting in trouble and in my opinion, that is not okay.

 

The complaints are air and best suited for IC issues. This brings me to my next part, tainavaa you are once again wrong or at least have been told wrong, the duty officers have never spoken to travis on any incident. The closest that it came was some IAA officers spoke to him and we had some pretty awesome RP in which travis is now on an injunction and that is cannon. The only downside here is there is no evidence (and yes I take great pride in that) to submit an IC report. If you really think about it, that is not much different than the countless people that will take a shift just to mess around then say it is not cannon at the end of the round (something to my understanding happens quite often). I say it’s not that different because you really can’t write a character complaint about it because what the actual character is doing is not necessarily wrong (as I established) and because it’s not cannon you can’t do an IC report either. Only in my case, if you ever catch me in the act, you do get to write an incident report.

 

I disagree. Like I said earlier in the thread I contemplated keeping it IC but given what I was told and what I knew it was warranted to go beyond an incident report. And yes, from several sources it seems I was misinformed because I was told by several people that duty officers have yelled at Travis on numerous occasions for his childish, destructive, and counterproductive behavior. Based on your testimony, an admin's, and a mod's testimony that isn't true so I withdraw that statement. However things like a major security breach and abuse of your power to get things you have absolutely no access to or authorization for in an incident report should call for an immediate investigation by central command because a weak link in security like that could mean disaster. There is an incident report filed on Travis for such an incident yet he hasn't been reprimanded in any way. As such, and this is by no means a crack at the duty officers players, I have no faith that something will be done to any meaningful extent about Travis's shortcomings.

As for people that say "lolnotcanon", once again, moot point. That is an issue on the server and I personally have an issue with it but I haven't directly come across an instance of it that I can properly write a complaint about. Once again, this is about you, not them. While I can commend you for keeping an injunction canon this isn't about you not keeping things canon. It was mentioned more as a possibility should things go awry for Travis. Speaking of incident reports, we had plenty of evidence and reason to believe it was you and only you. Not only is Travis notorious for abusing telescience but who has access to monkey cubes and cleaner/water grenades? Cargo, but cargo was pre-occupied and I myself was actually going back and forth between cargo. People know about the sparks that accompany teleportation, through the process of elimination and what evidence we did have was plenty to say "Yep, we need to keep you out until an investigation is done," but I think the technician was looking for a piece of paper that said "Travis wuz here".

What the character is doing is wrong. You did it literally just because you could. If he had a reason or was a traitor, fine. He had none nor was he.

 

Banning him from telescience over this is extremely unfair.1.)I have been here for 4+months using telescience this way. I established with the admins early on what is right and wrong. 2.)It is agreed (even here) that a monkey bomb is not that big of a deal. I only do this once every few days 3.)(something everyone agrees is ok). 4.)Many more people have done many more worse things (repetitively) then what travis has done. So even if we pursue this ICly a complete removal out of science would be extremely unfair to me as a player.

I am sorry that you are so upset, I really wish you came to me to discuss it because I would do what I can to be considerate of your feelings and seek to adjust my behavior so that we may both enjoy this game. 5.)That is how I operate. But I do not want to be removed out of science over this and I think it is unfair that is what you are trying to suggest here.

 

1) That's the issue.

2) Monkeybombing isn't that big of a deal. Being a chucklefuck in telescience whenever you are in telescience is a big deal.

3) Clearly not.

4.) And again, this isn't about them. If I believe what they do warrants a complaint and I'm directly involved enough to believe that it warrants a complaint, I'll do that. Leave the uninvolved players out of this.

5.) See #1. It's an issue that needs to be corrected some way, somehow. And thus, here we are. That statement also nullifies your suggestion to talk to you about it personally because what is one person going to do to change how you operate, particularly one that you rarely interact with? Not much I'm willing to bet.

Additionally, you said that chucklefuck was used as a buzzword. I don't believe it is. Chucklefucking as a verb is when you do some stupid action for no reason just to get a kick. In other words, you are fucking about to get a chuckle. Hence, chucklefucking. I don't care about chucklefucking few and far between. I've been victim to peoples chucklefucking before. I've enjoyed some, I've gotten annoyed at some. However the frequency from those players and characters aren't enough for me to care beyond some minor irritation. I don't even like to use the term because people honestly do overuse it as a buzzword. It isn't an inaccurate descriptor in this complaint though.

[Guest]

I see the word "snowflake" used more liberally than "chucklefucking" is. Then again, perhaps it's just confirmation bias because I don't like using common meta terms.

Despite whether or not chucklefucking is a buzzword, it perfectly describes your actions in-character, Furry. You don't do it to demonstrate how powerful telescience is, you don't do it out of some skewed departmental agenda, and you don't do it for fluffy IC reasons either.

This can lead to the conclusion that you're doing it for shits giggles and kicks. And with a department that has immense amounts of potential for powergaming to an utmost extreme to which it's highly immersion breaking and disruptive to the roleplay environment, you're really not setting a good example for the image of science as a whole. And this is me, speaking as someone who has played science quite in-depth and has been consumed by it at one point.

The thing is, though, just because it's so easy to get corrupted by this amazing knowledge, doesn't mean it's excusable because the devil made you do it. This is an issue where, not just the character themselves, but that the player cannot exercise self-control.

That, is honestly and unequivocally my experience and beef with you.

[Chaznoodles]

I'd pass this as an IC issue, there's pretty much nothing here that qualifies as self-antagging. If it was an explosive grenade or gas grenade of some sort, sure, but monkeybombing sounds more like good-humoured fun.

[Doomberg]

Alright, let's get this out of the way first: I am in no way able to consider this self-antagging.

With that aside, I do see an issue, namely the fact that a professional with a doctorate is using an expensive experimental device for the sake of fucking with people repeatedly. Would this be a problem if it was a rare occurrence? No. Is it a rare occurrence? Apparently not. The way I see it, if you're so bored of science that you /must/ fuck with people to get some degree of enjoyment, you should try a new character or department.

I'll be waiting for a bit more input before making a decision, regardless.

[Flamingo]

I'd like to point out that Travis works in Atmospherics when he's not in Telescience. This is generally 90% of what he has been doing as of late, as opposed to "messing around" as you say. Does he mess around in telescience? Yes. Is it okay? I think so, maybe you guys don't. To be quite honest, telescience doesn't have much use in this game besides powergaming and griefing. The few times we've used it IC in a 100% helpful non-joking way, it's been to teleport borgs and engineers into areas that needed repairs, and it worked great. That being said, we felt it was extremely powerful and didn't do it after like, two rounds (this was about a month ago). Additionally, we felt it kind of broke immersion in the sense that people willingly stepped into an experimental technology and didn't care. Overall I don't think Furry deserves a job ban. If he worked it out with the admins, then there's no fault. There's no difference between "chucklefucking whenever you're in telescience" and "occasionally chucklefucking in telescience but not all of the time" if it meets the requirement that was set. That's literally why it was set, so it doesn't happen so often. If there are extra circumstances then the rule needs to be changed and the quota lowered. It's not fair to job ban someone for something you agreed on, because you don't like how they went about fulfilled those requirements.

I sincerely hope that Furry doesn't get job banned, because it seems like this is an IC issue if anything, and I'm a big fan of Travis as a character both IC and OOC, and I don't like seeing people's fun ruined because not everyone agrees. As a note, none of this is directed at anyone, this is just how I feel about the situation as a whole. Best of luck.

[the_furry]

Ok so my second address. Since my previous statement the conversation switched from “it can’t happen all the time” to “that’s all you do with telescience”, save for tinavaa who still stated that I do it all the time. I already pointed out and stressed that I do not do it any more than what is the agreed upon consensus; Stated by admins and by many people here. Most everyone thinks its ok to have fun with the pad but not more than once every few days. I meet that requirement; I don’t do this more than once every few days. I already stated that but I am reiterating it to make it clear that I am following the requirement that is given me.

So now let me address the next complaint, “that’s all you do with telescience”. Frist off, this I don’t think is a problem. There are many characters who have their primary job then a secondary one that they just want have fun with (think cook and bar tender for several characters). So this idea that you have a fun job is accepted by a lot of characters. Furthermore like ejunder said, I am fulfilling the requirement that way so it should be completely acceptable. Honestly I think tinavaa is just trying to find something to latch on to in order to get rid of my character (many others backed down after my first response).

Now my previous paragraph assumes that the statement “that’s all you do with telescience” is true. If it is true, that’s completely ok, but that’s not even the case and it’s another inaccurate over generalization. I do many more things with telescience then I have been given credit for. Ejunder already pointed out one time when I’ve used the pad for actual RP but let me build on that. Ziva, nasir, karima, leah, roy, and many others whose names elude me, have all been sent to space in space exploration with me leading as the pilot on the telepad. It’s a pretty normal occurrence for me to ask for volunteers to help me test the pad and explore the space around the station. I have created some extremely interesting RP events and situations by doing that. I’ve written proposals to security and offered to practice response drills of some sort with the pad to see if security can use the pad. Those are always denied because of security but it’s still something I’ve done to try and encourage role play with the lab. “that’s all you do with telescience” is simply not true, and even if it was it there is nothing wrong with that.

So the two primary complaints that have been voiced here are completely unfounded. “It can’t happen all the time” I don’t do it all the time, I pointed that out and someone verified that for me as well. “that’s all you do with telescience” one, if that was true there is nothing wrong with that, two it’s not even true as I have just given several examples of how I use the pad to encourage role play. So I would like to know what the issue is, if I need to change something on what I do I’ll do that, but up until now I have followed all of the requirements that everyone here has set forth. My issue is this has been so overly exaggerated by one or two people that I am in danger of gaining a job ban when I am fulfilling all of the requirements that would make it acceptable to play this job.

[Tainavaa]

Alright, let's get this out of the way first: I am in no way able to consider this self-antagging.

 

That's fine, I was on the fence about it myself hence the question mark next to it. I can agree that it's not self antagging. My other issue is telescience abuse, because all he does is abuse telescience when he's in it.

Furry, I don't believe you read my post considering

 

Since my previous statement the conversation switched from “it can’t happen all the time” to “that’s all you do with telescience”, save for tinavaa who still stated that I do it all the time

 

Whenever you're in telescience. What that tells me is that you can not be in telescience or you will just do stupid shit. That isn't debatable, it isn't a "maybe", it's a fact. You practically stated it yourself. You are even actively defending your actions. That's how you operate, and you've been doing it for four months.

 

... I do not do it any more than what is the agreed upon consensus... but not more than once every few days. I meet that requirement... I am following the requirements...

 

Meeting a quota, stated earlier.

 

There are many characters who have their primary job then a secondary one that they just want to have fun with...

 

Your definition of fun, as heavily suggested earlier, is annoy people. Hell, it's even in the logs in my original post and you're suggesting that in the post I'm replying to.

 

... tinavaa is just trying to find something to latch on to in order to get rid of my character...

 

Except my issue isn't with Travis's existence, as stated earlier. I don't even interact with Travis IC until telescience is abused. My only notable interactions with him are when he gets in trouble for abusing telescience, being suspected of abusing telescience, and I THINK that one time TruLemIPC and Android were talking in the bar while Travis was hitting on one of the Mo'Takis and she kept looking over to us as we clinked our glasses on our monitors in perpetual agreement on trivial things. It was either Travis or Nasir, but that's neither here nor there. What IS here, is my point that my interactions with Travis are almost never (if ever) pleasant IC and OOC, mostly having to do with telescience. Mostly because I don't ever interact with him unless I'm forced to be involved with some telescience escapade. I don't care if he's trying to catch cat tail. I don't care if that's all he cares about. What I do care about is that whenever I see Travis in science, I think "Fuck, do I even want to play?" I have no opinion when he's elsewhere.

What you're doing is reiterating what you've said before and misrepresenting my argument, and even attacking my motives. Misrepresenting my argument is directly involved with the straw man fallacy. You yourself are latching onto a defensive argument by attacking me with no solid grounds; your only stated grounds are that others backed off from their support which suggest to me that you believe I'm not understanding what you're saying because I'm not following suit, which is why you might be reiterating your arguments. Trust me, I understand it.

"Travis did this one not-stupid thing once in telescience" isn't a reasonable defense as to why you should be allowed to continue what it is you do.

Here are the facts we KNOW:

• Travis abuses telescience "every few days" at least, as admitted by the_furry
  
• Travis is rarely in telescience, as admitted by the_furry
  
• Travis has been abusing telescience for four months, as admited by the_furry
  
• the_furry has stated and suggested on multiple occasions in the thread that abusing telescience is how he has fun. This is even stated by him as a point by saying that is how he operates.
  
• My interactions with Travis are miniscule in quantity, and largely negative both IC and OOC.

 

What this suggests (to me):

• the_furry is meeting a chuckle-fuck quota given to him by admins
  
• the_furry is ONLY going into telescience to meet his chucklefuck quota, or at least a majority of it.
  
• the_furry has no intent to not pull this stuff time and time again whenever possible.
  
• His character's interactions with one or more people in the community (the one being me, the more being I don't know) are largely related to the_furry's fuckery in telescience without any real IC reason.
  
• This is an OOC issue, because it isnt tied only to Travis but the player.

 

I'm sure there are other things, but I think that's a decent summary. I don't want Travis gone. I want his shit to stop. I don't care how. I want it to stop. If him being gone is how it has to be done then so be it. There are other ways of handling it. That's just one, and a rather extreme way of handling it. Given your testimonies prior I don't think it would be unreasonable if it doesn't stop soon.

[the_furry]

Ok this is starting to drag on, Now I’ve already posted my primary thoughts in my other two posts. I will not be repeating them here. However I do not like it when people misrepresent what I am saying. Tianvaa you have not understood most of what I have said. I know you think you do, but considering I am the one saying them and I am also saying you have misunderstood what it am saying, please take it at face value and reread/reevaluate what I have been saying. I say this because almost everything you have said is inaccurate in some way. Rather than break it all down again please go back and reread what I have said. In the meantime I will give you an example of how you are misconstruing everything I have said.

The “facts” as you present them show that there has been a major miscommunication. This is but an example but it will be simple to show how you have misunderstood what I’ve been saying. It will also let me correct some quotes because I do not like it when people attribute something to me that I did not say.

Here are the facts we KNOW: (that you say are present)

• Travis abuses telescience "every few days" at least, as admitted by the_furry

No I did not say that, I admit to having “fun” with telescience the way may others do with many different jobs (as previously stated and explained). When you compare it to the other jobs, we find that I do it to no more of a degree that anyone else does and thus hardly constitutes as abuse. Annoying sure, but I never once said I abuse anything. Please do not misconstrue what I say.

• Travis is rarely in telescience, as admitted by the_furry

That’s a pointless fact, ok. I’ve also been in security even less.

• Travis has been abusing telescience for four months, as admitted by the_furry

NO again I did not say that. I have used telescience for months now, is what I said. In fact I went into detail on how sometimes I will have fun with it (as many people do) and other times how I use it for space exploration RP. Did you not read the list I provided of people that I had interesting rp with? Even if I don’t do the space exploration rp I would never say I abuse telescience (reason stated in the first fact).

• the_furry has stated and suggested on multiple occasions in the thread that abusing telescience is how he has fun. This is even stated by him as a point by saying that is how he operates.

Again I never said abuse. I do not abuse telescience; Quote this sentence please. Also I have stated that I do a lot of other things with telescience (I have stated this multiple times). So I have fun with telescience in several different ways, some rp some just to have fun, nothing more so than any other player here.

Also my quote on how I operate, was an appeal to have you message me so we can work out what’s upset you. I was explaining that I prefer people to talk to me so that I can strive to find a solution and make everyone happy because “that is how I operate”. It had nothing to do with the topic at hand which is one of the reasons why I believe you are gravely misreading what I am typing.

• My interactions with Travis are miniscule in quantity, and largely negative both IC and OOC

Irrelevant, there’s a lot of people that I don’t have rp with. However there’s also a fair amount that I do rp with that actually like me. In fact if this is a complaint about my overall rp ability please frame it as such. Then give me tips on how to be a better role player, I’m always seeking to improve on that front (ask half my friends im always asking what will improve my character). Though, I ask you to provide them privately.

Now since every one of these “facts” you’ve provided are wrong that means every suggestion you have that follows thereafter is also baseless.

Theres more but I think the point is made.

The last thing I want to address is your last statement. “I'm sure there are other things, but I think that's a decent summary. I don't want Travis gone. I want his shit to stop. I don't care how. I want it to stop. If him being gone is how it has to be done then so be it. There are other ways of handling it. That's just one, and a rather extreme way of handling it. Given your testimonies prior I don't think it would be unreasonable if it doesn't stop soon.”

Tainavaa I wish you said that to me before. I told you to talk to me about this in private. I will never back down because I am not doing anything wrong. I have given countless examples and references on how my behavior is perfectly in line with anyone else on the server. So as player and a character I am in the right. To try to rob me of my fun (job ban, banned character, what have you), even while you’re gone, when I am not doing anything wrong, yes I am going to fight tooth and nail for it. But tainavaa I am also a decent human being. If you came to me and told me this upsets you and requested that I don’t do it while your on the server, I would have said ok. I would have worked something out with you so you don’t see it as much. I still feel I’m right and nothing I’m doing is wrong, but I’m also conscientious enough to understand others don’t feel that way. I’m considerate enough to less an activity that I know upsets others a great deal, because that is how I operate. I do not like upsetting people. I’m a decent human being. I would have worked something out with you. That is how I operate. That is why I wanted you to come to me in private for this discussion. We would have figured out an IC or OOC solution that we both could be happy with. Now? It’s up to doomburg, but I feel I’ve made a pretty strong argument with examples and support from other players that show I’ve actually done nothing wrong and should be free to continue as is, and it would be my decision if I want to change it for you. If you don't like it make an IC complaint.

[Tainavaa]

You've confirmed my suspicion and I will not reply to every point in your post. I will, instead, reply to one point in your post that shows that you are changing what you're saying as the debate goes on to fit your defense.

You said that you've simply been in telescience for four months. Not true. You said,

 

I have been here for 4+months using telescience this way.

 

in response to my post articulating what my issue is exactly, that is, Travis always using telescience for dicking about.

I'm not misrepresenting your argument at all. I'm taking it at face value using what you've said in conjunction with my own experiences and knowledge. I haven't even stated my own speculation as facts: I clearly stated they were suggestions or otherwise. You're spewing my own argument against me but I don't back up my argument against you with speculation and opinion, but facts.

I think I've said all that can be said until an admin pitches in.

[Guest]

If you came to me and told me this upsets you and requested that I don’t do it while your on the server, I would have said ok. I would have worked something out with you so you don’t see it as much. I still feel I’m right and nothing I’m doing is wrong, but I’m also conscientious enough to understand others don’t feel that way.

 

How about not doing it on the server at all without any good reason for doing so? I like to think this thread is indicative of how people feel about their experiences with you. These are player-driven decisions, your characters do not just 'move' without you giving them motivation to do so.

You're not setting a good example for what telescience should be used for.

[Doomberg]

Following further discussion by the staff, we will be posting a general announcement as clarification regarding what is and what is not an acceptable use of telescience.

I'd say that resolves our complaint. I'll leave this open for the next 24-48 hours in case someone has anything to add, then I'll lock and archive it. Do remember to stay civil.

[Gallic]

Allow me to play Devil's Advocate once again, since it would seem everyone loves to hate Travis.

I used to roleplay with Travis frequently, and it wasn't until later that somebody asked me why I was hanging out with him that I realized anyone disliked him. To me, he may have some strange habits with telescience, but he also knows how to use it quite well, and is generally a pretty cool guy when you get to know him.

OOC'ly, Furry has been nothing but nice to me since we met. I understand, to an extent, why some dislike his character, but what I really don't understand the ire for him as a player.

Don't get me wrong, I get the arguments made against him, but... Not a single "I mean he's pretty nice, though."?