Diona

[Jakers457]

Would you class them as siphonophores?

[Conspire2Ignite]

I am by no means an expert on siphonophores. However, I would not consider Dionaea to be akin to jellyfish. The whole "individuals are the building blocks of the whole" formation that siphonophores exhibit could probably be called similar, but I think that's where similarities end.

Unless we're considering them space siphonophores, in which case we can now call Dionaea "Space Jellyfish".

[Crescentise]

I am by no means an expert on Dionaea (or taxonomy for that matter, all info was taken from wikipedia), however, I see why you'd think that, Jakers, 'cause of what Conspire mentioned. However, the answer is a definite, resounding no, because of how biological classification works.

Siphonophores (colonies of multiple organisms that are also defined as animals, as you will see in a second) are an order of...

Hydrozoa(ns) (small, predatory water-dwelling organisms), which belong to the phylum...

Cnidaria (a division of life forms containing cnidocytes), which belongs to the kingdom...

Animalia, i.e. The Animal Kingdom.

So, you see, the only way you'd be able to class Dionaea as Siphonophores would be if they were not only a colony of multiple organisms, but also if said organisms:

a) Had cnidocytes.

b) Were small, predatory, and water-dwelling.

[Jakers457]

Curiously, what would we class them as?

[Rusty Shackleford]

They're xenobiological lifeforms, so I'd imagine that Dionaea, along with Tajarans, Skrell and Unathi, they would not fit into any of the current branches of the animal kingdom, as those only concern lifeforms on Earth. I think they'd all have completely different kingdoms since they all evolved independently in different star systems.

[Jakers457]

Biological classification is by a species trait. For example a Tajarans would be:

Biological classification

Cunabula: Ahdomaris

Kingdom : Animalia

Phylum : Chordate

Class : Mammalia

Subclass: Eutheria

Order : Primacreodonta

Family : Coetidae

Genus : Tajara

Species : T. Sapiens

[Crescentise]

Ooh, yes. Cunabula is a good thing to add. Kudos to whoever did that on the Tajaran entry on our wiki (though why is it Ahdomaris instead of Adhomaris?). The only problem I see is that supposedly

Dionaea have no planets, government, or society.

So what would one put under Cunabula for Dionaea? They must have had some celestial body, or area, of origin. So perhaps they have a name for the original star(s) they 'orbited'. What do you think, Conspire?

If this can be figured out, then the lore team can progress towards having classifications for all the 'races'.

[Jakers457]

What we can be sure on, is that they're definitely polyphyletic due to how they've developed.

[SgtSammac]

Devils advocate time. But do we really need to go this indepth with the Loren? Baring in mind the majority of the server completely ignored it or 'attacked' the lore team when we went overly indepth.

[Conspire2Ignite]

Dionaea are strange.

Let's start there. They don't follow typical negative behavior patterns of Humans (war, genocide, racism, sexism, everything that makes you Sad) nor do they have typical positive behavior patterns (ambition, love, quickness [both in thought and action], sex, everything that makes you feel... good to be alive). I've never thought of Dionaea as ever really having a planet. An ancestor of theirs that they evolved from, certainly. But the species we call Dionaea don't have and never had a planet, so their Cunabula, the place where they evolved into what and who they are, would be space as a whole (or maybe the stars, since they revolve around those a lot). In my eyes, at least.

As for inclusion into the lore, the results of this discussion could be summed up in one or two sentences. There's no need to have a play-by-play of how Dionaea evolved from a PlantlikeSomethingOrOther on InsertStrangePlanetNameHere and how exactly they found their way into space and beyond. Just say Dionaea can trace their roots (HAHAHAHAHA GET IT?) to wherever, but they evolved beyond their ancestors to be suited to life entirely in space. Boom. Short, sweet, to-the-point, and has information someone may want.

[Jakers457]

I personally find it enjoyable to look into these kind of things. Is easy enough to create a race and say 'that thing is there because it is there' isn't as interesting. Sure people complained about the excessive amount of fluff, but a cut and dry classification doesn't take up several paragraphs. It also would be good for research players, who wanted to study different races.... in a politically correct manner.

[Crescentise]

I agree with Jakers.

 

As for inclusion into the lore, the results of this discussion could be summed up in one or two sentences. There's no need to have a play-by-play of how Dionaea evolved from a PlantlikeSomethingOrOther on InsertStrangePlanetNameHere and how exactly they found their way into space and beyond. Just say Dionaea can trace their roots (HAHAHAHAHA GET IT?) to wherever, but they evolved beyond their ancestors to be suited to life entirely in space. Boom. Short, sweet, to-the-point, and has information someone may want.

This would work brilliantly incorporated as a sort of summary of the race at the top of the entry. I honestly feel like there's no such thing as too much fluff when it comes to a race's wiki page, however, Sgt. In my opinion, it makes little sense that a highly developed and detailed lore would drive people away if a nice clear accessible summary-overview of the 'race' is provided as well. I'm promoting my way because it allows for both kinds of players - those who just want to make sense of what the race is and nothing more, and those who want to delve deeper and bring out the details of the race through arpee.

Conspire, you as a pretty big fan and empathiser of Dionaea say that they're beyond classification, but that's not what humans think!! Humans would definitely be seeking to put them under labels and trace their metaphorical roots. If they had done so already, I feel like putting their taxonomy on the wiki page is only appropriate, and would match that of the Tajaran entry.

Whereas if humans haven't figured it out already, this could be a major focus of xenobiologists bored with slimes. Xenobio antag kidnaps Diona to study. Actually makes breakthrough while being hunted by sec. Ethical debate on whether or not to use findings. Fun!

[Guest]

I'm a bit tired of the "well if we put too much effort and time into the lore, people are going to be driven away because they don't understand it" argument, mostly because it doesn't ever apply. I've never seen anyone get driven away from the community because the lore was too complicated. I mean, hell, if you have questions about the lore, especially if they're confused on the specific terms... just ask. I'm sure anyone will happily answer or give input/feedback on the matter.

I mean, hey, I say if someone wants to put detail and effort into fluff, let them do it. Chances are there's one person that will be interested in it and will want moar.

Devil's advocate or not, I don't think we should discourage a detailed lore.

[Jakers457]

Their Cunabula could be something like.... Epsilonus or something. I mean if we go by the system where humans and skrell made first contact with the Diona, then we could use that as Cunabula for them.

[Baka]

I'd always imagine dionea to be like cocoon men of sorts, made out of hardened dionea nymphs that were once squishy like caterpillars.

[ForgottenTraveller]

Is say just give them a scientific name and be done with it. Doing a Tax for an alien is hard enough when they have an actual planet.

[Jakers457]

That takes the fun out of it though.

People ask why bother going into detail about the races biologically? I'll merely reply by saying isn't it human nature to take things apart, or put stuff together to figure out how things work? What makes a race interesting for me, personally, is how their planet functions, how they adapted to that planet or what caused their current evolutionary state.

You say, he's a plant man or a cat human and I ask, what traits do they have to make them that way? What's going on under the hood, what is the logic behind it? To me, I enjoy this, you can find so much about a race or what the race could entail.

For example, why are Diona's slow? Because they're plant people? No, that's a boring answer. Their nymph form is far too swift for that answer to fit. What if it was because a Diona is a bunch of nymphs, a collection of minds if you will, and to take in account how much a sapient brain takes up energy wise would explain why the Diona would be so slow. Because it's using so much energy on it's thought processes, it's motor skills would lag behind in a lethargic manner. It's stuff like that, that can... enhance this made up world.

Edit: Also probably because there is no way for them to have fast twitch muscles or the perfect blend that species such as human have.