Garnascus 24-hour AI job-ban

[Zulu0009]

BYOND Key: Zulu0009
Staff BYOND Key: Garnascus
Game ID: ce1-bYXA
Reason for complaint: Unwarranted 24-hour job-ban as AI.

During the specified round, I was playing as AI. Due to the low number of crew members, I was VERY busy in several tasks at the same time, switching from the Shell to the Core. At a certain point, I used the elevator to go down to the main level and crushed two crew members (as a note, they seemed to take it well in LOOC, laughing about it), obviously, by accident; previously, as Garnascus showed me, two messages had been sent over the radio, stating that the elevators should not be used "otherwise Zrin dies" as stated by an Engineer. However, one message was sent the moment the elevator started moving, while the other was sent over Common. As I explained, I did not notice the message sent over the Common channel:
1. seeing every single channel makes the chat extremely cluttered,
2. I was talking to someone via the Shell at the same time, if I remember correctly, so, more chatter,
3. I simply missed the message due to the chaos.

EDIT: Other messages along the lines of "do not use the elevators" were sent over the Common channel, however, they did not specify why. Given that the Surface Level had no power, I identified that the issue was the exterior elevator doors on the Surface Level not closing. I closed them manually and started the elevator, assuming that the reason the elevators were not being used was that. I cannot help but add that, as far as I understand, two crew members were, somehow, in the elevator shaft. If they jumped from above, that seems like an exaggerated and sketchy move from a character and RP standpoint.

I was given a 24-hour job-ban from AI, and was essentially told that I am to be held accountable for my mistakes, despite the round being low-pop, despite no clear offense taken by the people I crushed, despite my attempts to explain that it was an accident, despite the fact that an admin spawned gibs at the elevator to make the scene look more dramatic. Despite all of this, I was job-banned, and after asking to DM a staff member on Discord, I was told "You were given two courses of action, that is about it."

Evidence/logs/etc: N/A
Additional remarks: Given that I do not know how this staff team operates, I am not willing to risk losing the AI whitelist over what I consider an incredibly unjustified and cruel ban: as I told Garnascus, I am only able to play extensively during the weekend. I'm a student, and I'm busy. I play when I can. The 24-hour whitelist just so happens to end at the start of the week. I would like to make it clear that I will thoroughly contest this ban and any following actions, as the general behavior of staff I have witnessed while playing AI was highly inconsistent, but, typically, confrontational and dismissive. This is no way to encourage someone to play a role that is very rarely played, yet highly monitored, moderated and judged. If I cannot play and make mistakes while playing, perhaps AI should be removed.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Zulu0009
Added some details

[ShesTrying]

Hey, in this very same round you dragged my engineer character, Qoi Liuiq, though live and lethal turretfire outside telecomms, and then neglected to take me, who could not stand for paincrit and organ damage, to medical, despite me begging for you to take me because I could no longer fix telecomms while actively dying. You actually pulled my dying character into the tcomms server room where I needed to scramble to turn on my internals so the supercooled gas in tcomms wouldn't kill me the rest of the way. When you did decide to take me out of telecomms, you were able to turn the turrets off, which left me confused why you didn't do that in the first place. By the time I got to maintenance, where I broke off from you and found someone else to take me to medical, I lost the ability to walk due to paincrit and had to be carried. This to me also feels like questionable AI play, and it being in the same round as the elevator it doesn't really feel out of place for the jobban to be applied. 

[Shadow]

Hello!

Since this complaint is regarding an AI ban/AI in general I'll be handling this. 

You did indeed get a note regarding the situation shestrying described.

And soon after that your actions killed 2 crewmembers.

At this point an AI ban seems warranted, however I'd like you to tell me your side regarding the tcomm situation. 

[Zulu0009]

As I had told someone in a ticket, I didn't know that turrets count as equipment and can be turned off, since I didn't see any wires connecting them to the power in there. The Warden I was following ran through the turrets like a maniac and told me to follow, so I assumed that clearly, if this guy decided to do that, there must be a life or death situation I am unaware of in there. It's a poor explanation because it was a mistake, I was not having a good day and I admitted that shortly after. The problem is that the ban wasn't for this, it was for the elevator, which was entirely accidental. If it was for this, I would understand it more.

[Shadow]

A ban usually doesn't come out of nowhere, it's the result of notes and warnings, what most likely happened is that garn saw the note and escalated it to a ban. 

The AI whitelist team (Prate and Me) completely agree with Garn and his judgement.

As is, the whitelist rules say that if you get banned your whitelist gets stripped as well, which is what happened. 

[Zulu0009]

I heavily disagree and I'm starting to think this is more and more unfair. Garnascus' ban does not mention the previous incident at all, and is a frankly weak and unreasonable reason for a ban, especially after he told me "I don't want your whitelist removed" fully knowing it would be. This feels extremely biased. There was no need to ban me for a clear mistake. If you really had to ban me, at least you should have cited a real issue and not a clear mistake and accident. If my whitelist removal is not debatable or contestable, even, this simply worsens the situation and I will go through any avenues I have access to, to fight it. One mistake or one bad call should not lead to the removal of a whitelist that is already enjoyed by an extremely small number of people.

[Garnascus]

So, i was not aware the AI whitelist team had a policy of removing whitelists over any ban. I am really sorry for misleading you but at the time i could only tell you my opinion. I do still think a 24 hour ban was the right call here as the actions you took where pretty silly. 

[Zulu0009]

11 hours ago, Garnascus said:

So, i was not aware the AI whitelist team had a policy of removing whitelists over any ban. I am really sorry for misleading you but at the time i could only tell you my opinion. I do still think a 24 hour ban was the right call here as the actions you took where pretty silly. 

I don't disagree that the previous incident was bad, but the ban reason states something along the lines of "missed a critical message and caused the death of two crew members" which seems like a weird and out of place reason for a ban, especially since it starts with the word "missed" which implies that it was an accident. Frankly, after not playing AI for a few days, I realize that I didn't exactly enjoy it and the level of surveillance it's under, so I'm not particularly bothered by the whitelist removal, that role was really stressing me out. I just think the provided ban reason seems unfair, that's all; if anything, for a matter of moderation quality, it should be the incident that happened earlier in that round.

[Shadow]

This has been, mostly due to my fault, been sitting idle.

Since it was decided that he would not remove the ban I am afraid the strip stays, as per our policy.