SatinsPristOTD Posted December 28, 2021 Posted December 28, 2021 BYOND Key: Ben Aflek is an Ok Actor Staff BYOND Key: RoosterTeeth Game ID: cfH-dKTW Reason for complaint: This has to be a staff complaint and not a player complaint because I did ahelp it and it was handled. However, the result was... less than stellar. Round: Vampire, I'm the HOP Cordia Caladius. I don't take my RP lightly when I do antags. In fact, my RP can heavily hinder my ability to antag. I did allow Karl Voigt to remember I drank from them, to help "Push" the antag round into action. I get into Cargo (and bear in mind it's a manhunt for me after I've done what I've done), and Karl calls out over Comms that I'm in Cargo and he needs Security. (Totally valid to do. No complaints.) ICly, however, Cordia does have an issue with this and she chases after him to teach him a lesson for ratting her out. We get into the refinery and I get him down with a glare. I feed on him, and not LIGHTLY either. I take a SIGNIFICANT amount of blood from Karl Voigt. Enough that the character is suffering decent blood loss. As soon as he's let go, he SLAMS me into a wall, SHOVES me down, and STOMPS on my chest enough times to crack my ribs. This is where my first complaint comes in. I don't care if you fight back against my antag. It's good RP to do a fight or flight. I DO care if you fight back against an antag with that much force and you're *suffering from extreme blood loss*. Imagine, will you, losing half your blood, and still managing to throw a 6'6 woman down on the floor and stomp her chest enough times to break rib. I get up, because I'm a full power vampire at this point. Blood heal. Give chase. I screech, grab him when he's down, and thrall him, to teach him a lesson for what he just did to me. He GHOSTS AS SOON AS I FINISH THRALLING HIM. It's a SIGNIFICANT blood nerf that he just did to me. The blood heal, scream, and thralling put me back so far at that point, I was passive for the rest of the round. So... I ahelped the ghosting, and pointed out the poor RP. I was hit with a "Well, he ahelped about not wanting to be a thrall, and I spoke to them about it. Also, the RP was fine. The mechanic let him do it." No.... Mechanics can let us do a lot of things in game, but we suspend it for proper RP, that's what makes us different from MRP and LRP servers. Mechanics allow us to do some crazy exploitable things, but we don't because they don't actually promote roleplay or.. any role play for that matter. So I'm contesting the ruling against the "mechanic let him do it", as well as just speaking to him for thrall ghosting. I'm sorry, that was poor sportsmanship, and I wasn't compensated in the slightest bit for that sort of behavior. The player being "spoken to, but it's kinda okay because they ahelped it" doesn't sit right. Evidence/logs/etc: Additional remarks:
Roostercat Posted December 28, 2021 Posted December 28, 2021 Hi. First things first, 26 minutes ago, SatinsPristOTD said: So I'm contesting the ruling against the "mechanic let him do it", as well as just speaking to him for thrall ghosting. I'm sorry, that was poor sportsmanship, and I wasn't compensated in the slightest bit for that sort of behavior. The player being "spoken to, but it's kinda okay because they ahelped it" doesn't sit right. I am not at all obliged to tell you what I actually did with the other person. Talking to them can mean a variety of things, so do not just assume I did nothing. Secondly, people are allowed to leave when they are uncomfortable with something happening, in this case the Thralling. How they did it was an issue, but not a massive one, and they were talked to about it. End of story. There is also zero obligation for staff to compensate you for anything that happened, additionally. Secondly, I believe you misunderstand how combat and Rp work together here. Most roleplay comes from the escalation of conflict and so on. When fighting starts, it is mostly whoever is the most robust that is allowed to win. Players go down when mechanics make them go down, not when they RP going down because they supposedly take a lot of damage. That is why this game HAS a mechanical side. Players do not have to just give up in a fight because you are a Vampire that just sucked their blood. You attacked Voight twice, letting him remember it both times, so he fought back the second time when he woke up. i consider this okay, as it is obvious you are attacking them and there was some escalation involved (the first attack) thus making it believable that they would protect themselves to the best of their ability, with their ability being determined by the mechanics the game has in place. 32 minutes ago, SatinsPristOTD said: No.... Mechanics can let us do a lot of things in game, but we suspend it for proper RP, that's what makes us different from MRP and LRP servers. Mechanics allow us to do some crazy exploitable things, but we don't because they don't actually promote roleplay or.. any role play for that matter. Mechanics are there to supplement roleplay. There are two sides to the server, RP, and mechanical gameplay. Escalation before a fight + the aftermath is the RP side, and the actual fight is the mechanical side, with the game determining who goes down first and so on. Just because he fought you effectively with "low blood" does not at all mean he exploited anything. It means the game determined he still has enough blood to move and fight. There was no conscious exploiting going on here. 34 minutes ago, SatinsPristOTD said: I don't care if you fight back against my antag. It's good RP to do a fight or flight. I DO care if you fight back against an antag with that much force and you're *suffering from extreme blood loss*. Imagine, will you, losing half your blood, and still managing to throw a 6'6 woman down on the floor and stomp her chest enough times to break rib. This seems kinda' hypocritical. You are insinuating that you are fine with them fighting back, but you are also upset that they almost won in fighting you back. Do not expect people to just give up for no reason because they supposedly lost blood. On that note, I think you grossly overestimate how much blood vampires take when they drain people. A long time ago, Vampire feeding DID take a significant amount of blood, to the point of killing after 3-4 goes. After that, it was nerfed very hard and now it very rarely takes someone below 90 percent blood oxy, if it even goes below 95. It is likely Voight was nowhere near low on blood, and was perfectly fine after the sucking. This is partially why Vamps usually keep the bite ability on the forget option. 39 minutes ago, SatinsPristOTD said: So... I ahelped the ghosting, and pointed out the poor RP. I was hit with a "Well, he ahelped about not wanting to be a thrall, and I spoke to them about it. Also, the RP was fine. The mechanic let him do it." You are twisting words here. I told you he was not powergaming and that there was no abuse of mechanics. Additionally, there is little RP to be done in the middle of a fight. I do not expect people to start typing mid brawl. Here are the logs for the ticket.
MattAtlas Posted December 28, 2021 Posted December 28, 2021 I looked into this with @Faris's help and we came to a resolution. First of all, Voigt ghosting like he did was an issue, and it was handled fine. The administrative action he was given follows the escalation procedure we usually have. It's not really appropriate to ghost right after something like that happens, because by playing secret you're still consenting to potentially putting your character in these situations. Adminhelping for permission is fine, but you should wait for an admin to reply first. Secondly: 9 hours ago, Roostercat said: There is also zero obligation for staff to compensate you for anything that happened, additionally. This is not really entirely correct. When something like that happens, we should try to make up for it because our job is also to put ourselves in others' shoes. The vampire did just spend like 500 blood on a thrall that instantly ghosted, that's a massive amount and severely handicaps them against security. You should have called for an administrator to fix their blood. Thirdly, the issue of Voight fighting back. We think this is not a problem: like Rooster said, vampire blood sucking's effect on people was severely nerfed in this PR: https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/7884. Vampire blood sucking only removes five units of blood per tick, as opposed to 25 units before, and a human has about 560u of blood in their body. We can't really tell how much you drained exactly from logs, but it's extremely unlikely that you drained enough to incapacitate Voigt in any reasonable way. It takes something like below 50% blood oxygenation to incapacitate a human, and before that you don't really get any bad messages that could form the basis for a pain RP claim. The most you get with severe blood loss is "You feel extremely woozy/dizzy" and some blackening of your vision, and that's assuming that you sucked them for long enough to get to that point, which is again very unlikely. That makes him fighting back a fair endeavor, in my eyes, since you specifically chose not to use your other tools at your disposal (like your screech, or glare, or a gun, or simply setting your blood sucking to 'forget') to incapacitate him: Voigt didn't really have any indicators that would indicate how weak he is, but it's possible to create a suggestion thread or a PR to change this.
SatinsPristOTD Posted December 28, 2021 Author Posted December 28, 2021 Honestly, I wasn't aware vamp was nerfed like that, so that is now moot in this complaint. But I will say I went from 50u of blood to 260u when I drained him. The only indicator of how much blood your taking is by how much your "usable blood" goes up, so that's what I reference. I'm not wrong in say I almost took half their blood, but at least I know the mechanic better of it now. And yes, something to correct the 500u of blood that I wasted would have been nice, and I'd have been able to complete the vamp gimmick instead of ending lamely.
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