Character Complaint

[CourierBravo]

BYOND Key: CourierBravo
Game ID: chq-dl2x
Character name: Maxamilien D'Ambroise
Staff involved: N/A (ReadThisNamePlz only through discord DM, no official capacity)
Reason for complaint: Low Roleplay feel to round, using OOC information IC
Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? Yes, no response from staff.
Approximate Date/Time: 4/13/22 ~5pm GMT-8

I'd love to have screenshots, but I closed my game and walked away before thinking to save my chatlog.

To summarize, the round was revolution. About 30 minutes in, the gimmick starts. The captain, Maxamilien D'Ambroise, called staff to the bridge. When on the bridge, the captain used the ooc prompt to ask me to join the loyalists. I refused, trying to roleplay it out instead. He asked again with the OOC fuction, only replying IC that I sounded non committal. I refused again, so he took my ID away, saying he should at least remove my bridge access in case im captured. Then demoted me without even saying anything, just leaving my ID on the ground outside the crew armory. I then just puttered around for another two hours, before closing my client and just being done with the round. I messaged ReadThisNamePlz, who recommended I open a ticket in game or make a character complaint. I opted to log back in and make an ahelp, but after 8 minutes there was no response, and the round was about to end. I decided to self close the ticket as to not drag out the end of the round.

I'm just frustrated that there was little to no roleplay (that I personally experienced) with the gimmick, and that I was immediately neutered of any capacity to be involved.
Obligatory "I know other people got a lot of good  roleplay in, but I'm speaking from my experience of the round, not anyone elses."

Edited April 14, 2022 by Bejewledpot
remembering some details

[Kintsugi]

I am only posting to this thread because I have to, and unless an administrator needs me to provide more information I have no interest in responding further. I'm not going to have a conversation about this - this is my piece and there's nothing more to it. Here's what I have to say:

Spoiler

My side of the story was that I was an antagonist headloyalist running a gimmick that saw the SCC split in half by an apparent coup. CourierBravo was playing a member of command who refused to side with me despite having instructions to, sent by Central Command, because of an active rebellion on the ship. So, yeah - after they refused to join up with me during my conversation with them, I moved on. I was managing a dozen+ loyalists who were hounding me in person for orders and direction and I didn't have the time to deal with one person who was not following my orders or central command's orders. Because they were a member of command and the rebels were trying to seize control of the bridge, I had their bridge access removed and dismissed them so they could mind their own business - potentially siding with the rebels, if they so chose. There was a lot going on and I could hardly spare the time to interact with one person who seemed intent on not taking a side in the course of the round.

 

[CourierBravo]

I'd like to point out that I A. Said I was loyal, even though I did not immediately join, and B. At no point in our conversation were rebels trying to take the bridge. As far as I'm aware, during the entire exchange and the popping of the crew armory, only loyalists or non sided were even on the 3rd deck. I feel like theres a higher degree of roleplay expected than "you were ordered to by an announcement." Nor at any point did I refuse an order, outside of the OOC prompt to join. I came to the bridge as ordered, I said I was loyal as I was supposed to by the gimmick, my character being SCC member, and I handed over my ID, only to be demoted immediately. Though I guess you could extrapolate my characters hesitance to arm myself and form up on the loyalist group as disobeying orders, but I suggested alternative course of action instead.
Thank you for your quick reply though, its appreciated.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Bejewledpot
additional clarification

[Garnascus]

So, wait. @Bejewledpot Is your contention that IC danse had no reason to suspect you where not a loyalist? That he removed your access just because you said "no" on the loyalist prompt? 

[CourierBravo]

Yes, that's my complaint. I feel like OOC information of refusing the prompt was the reason the access was taken away, as I dont believe anything outside of not wanting to run into a firefight was expressed. Sorry, I should have made that more clear.

[Kintsugi]

I know I said I wasn't interested in replying again but seeing as the cause célèbre has apparently changed to something unaddressed by my post, I feel obliged to address it.

Your access was removed not because of the prompt, which I frankly did not care for - we had people working alongside us who had not accepted the prompt either, including one bridge crewman. As far as I'm concerned the prompt is only for organizational purposes and so staff know explicitly who is an antagonist and who isn't. Your access was removed because, 1. you refused to arm yourself and participate in the fight against the revs, and 2. because you then refused to stay in the bridge, a safe location, which you expressed by stating your desire to get back to work, if my memory serves correctly. Because of that you were a liability to the loyalists and I removed your access to the bridge by technically demoting you. Perhaps this was an error and I should have just explicitly removed the requisite access- but again, I was rushing because of the large group of people I had to manage. Let me point out that none of your equipment was taken from you - you still had your command headset, and all of your job gear. An antagonist ICly acted excessively because of your failure to commit 100% to his side, nothing more, nothing less. Another member of command refused the very same prompt (the interim CMO), but didn't lose their access because they agreed to stay in a place where the revs could not target them, the bridge. Again, you were free to choose any course of action in the aftermath. 

As for this claim:
 

Quote

At no point in our conversation were rebels trying to take the bridge. 

The entire gimmick of the revs was that they were attempting to take the bridge to hijack the Horizon. This was explicitly stated by the CC announcement made by the revs. Just because it was not happening at that very minute, that does not mean it was not going to be attempted.

Like I said, I want to emphasize the scale of player involvement I was dealing with, the fact I was an antagonist, and the fact the only thing you lost was access to the bridge, which was an IC conflict centered around my antagonist character's distrust for your apparent hesitance to side with him. I apologize if you felt our interaction was unsatisfactory - personally I got very little enjoyment out of the round myself - but I don't think my character's behavior was unjustified or unreasonable, IC and OOC.

Edited April 14, 2022 by DanseMacabre

[CourierBravo]

7 minutes ago, DanseMacabre said:

Your access was removed not because of the prompt, which I frankly did not care for - we had people working alongside us who had not accepted the prompt either, including one bridge crewman. As far as I'm concerned the prompt is only for organizational purposes and so staff know explicitly who is an antagonist and who isn't. Your access was removed because, 1. you refused to arm yourself and participate in the fight against the revs, and 2. because you then refused to stay in the bridge, a safe location, which you expressed by stating your desire to get back to work, if my memory serves correctly. Because of that you were a liability to the loyalists and I removed your access to the bridge by technically demoting you. Perhaps this was an error and I should have just explicitly removed the requisite access- but again, I was rushing because of the large group of people I had to manage. Let me point out that none of your equipment was taken from you - you still had your command headset, and all of your job gear. An antagonist ICly acted excessively because of your failure to commit 100% to his side, nothing more, nothing less. Another member of command refused the very same prompt (the interim CMO), but didn't lose their access because they agreed to stay in a place where the revs could not target them, the bridge. Again, you were free to choose any course of action in the aftermath.

I guess that makes more sense when you explain your perspective, but it wasnt clear in the moment at all. From my point of view, I wanted to help and do my job, and I thought that conversation was being completely ignored in favor of making the requests to join the loyalist group. I also thought that removing my access so I could go contribute was what was agreed upon, so its confusing to have that agreed, and also be punished for leaving the bridge. And finally, there just wasnt any roleplay to be had about demoting me. Which I think is pretty significant in the story of what was going on, it was just "your ID is on the ground, go get it." and shutting me down with a  "Stop wining about it" when I tried to at least talk about it over radio. So, with the lack of any real communication , going back on the very little discussed, and dismissal of the command member demoted, I felt like it was an OOC Issue and based on refusing the prompt, not an IC one. I thought it wasnt justified, it was just "oh you might be a liability because you wont directly join the loyalists, demoted and shut down in conversation." That's why I felt like it was a choice made on OOC information.

 

16 minutes ago, DanseMacabre said:

The entire gimmick of the revs was that they were attempting to take the bridge to hijack the Horizon. This was explicitly stated by the CC announcement made by the revs. Just because it was not happening at that very minute, that does not mean it was not going to be attempted.

I pointed that out because it made it sound like there was active combat about to or actively happening. Both group were still in their gearing up phase, and fighting didnt even break out for another 20-30 minutes I think. I understand that's apart of the gimmick, but the point of a gimmick is to create roleplay.

[Garnascus]

I feel that based on Danse's testimony here that he did not really do anything wrong. I am empathic to courier's perspective here that they felt sidelined by the round. I also believe i was in on the server when the revs made that particular announcement so danse's actions make sense to me. I understand being demoted can be frustrating. It has been many years since i have played captain during a revolutionary round but i have talked to enough people since then to know it is VERY stressful. You constantly have half the ship begging for your attention. Its not easy to do and i expect one or two problems. 

[CourierBravo]

Well, if that's what you think, I'll trust your judgement