Staff Complaint - Roostercat12

[Infernalistgamer]

BYOND Key: infernalistgamer
Staff BYOND Key: Roostercat12
Game ID: clE-aC4Y
Reason for complaint: This is in regards to the Bughunt match, and being messaged by Roostercat12, and recieving an official warning on my account.
Evidence/logs/etc:
I was given an official warning after being informed that calling out that someone pushing a janitor cart while Jurgi is the only janitor on shift (confirmed by the chat program used IC by the crew).  Note I spotted the person with the cart, opened the chat program in character, and searched for Janitors, to see if there was another one on shift.  Upon confirming I was the only one on shift, I called out on Common that there was someone disguised as a janitor, as we were currently at red alert for armed thieves.  

Additional remarks: I admit I have had learning to do on Aurora, getting used to canon and non-canon, and metaknowledge.  But this was absolutely in character and valid, especially since I didn't catch the person's name or species and deduced their deception logically.  While I don't think Roostercat was overly rude to me, or completely out of line, I do contest any censure for one of the best moments of actually paying attention and playing the game cleanly I have had.  I'd like that warning removed, and I'll consider the matter solved.

- Hans "Infernalistgamer" Watts/ Jurgi Harlansson, Space Janitor

PS: Relevant data follows:

-----------------------------------------
A round of Bughunt (merc+borer) has ended! [Game ID: clE-aC4Y]
[11:37 PM]
There were 30 survivors (30 bluespace jumped) and 14 ghosts.
-----------------------------------------
PM -> [Moderator PM] Roostercat12: Hi, got a second?

PM -> [Moderator PM] Roostercat12: you here?

PM <- to Roostercat12: Yeah

PM <- to Roostercat12: Too much knowledge again?

PM -> [Moderator PM] Roostercat12: Yes. At some point you called out an intruder immediately as they passed by the janitors closet. Can you explain what happened there

PM <- to Roostercat12: I saw someone with one of my carts, and checked the chat list to see if another janitor came on shift

PM <- to Roostercat12: My cart is right in here, with me, so I knew it was an intruder

PM -> [Moderator PM] Roostercat12: yeaaaaaaaah that is very in the realms of metagaming, my guy. Anyone could have had the cart and calling someone out as an intruder purely based off of that is not acceptable.

PM <- to Roostercat12: No one else on this station but janitors have access to janny carts

PM <- to Roostercat12: That was pure deduction in character

PM -> [Moderator PM] Roostercat12: You also have notes about this, as you yourself noticed, so this is going to be a warning. Your character does not INSTANTLY know who is and is not an intruder purely based off of having a janitor cart/checking the manifest etc.

PM <- to Roostercat12: I didn't even get the species and name, I looked to see if I was the only janitor on shift and called out

PM -> [Moderator PM] Roostercat12: Cargo can have them as well

PM <- to Roostercat12: I mean, I didn't meta that. I thought you were calling me out for namechecking cortical borers

PM <- to Roostercat12: The janitor thing was deductive reasoning.

PM <- to Roostercat12: I keep track of janitorial on this station, and seeing someone pushing a janitor cart during a red alert with no other janitors on staff is sus as fuck

You have been warned by an administrator.
Click here to review and acknowledge them!

PM -> [Moderator PM] Roostercat12: Right, but instantly jumping to intruder on this is pretty jumpy and essentially metagaming, still. You didnt ask anyone anythingabout it or try to find out more, you just IMMEDIATELY gunned for intruder. If you have a problem with the verdict, make a staff complaint. Have a good one.

Your ticket has been closed by Roostercat12.

Edited December 31, 2022 by Infernalistgamer

[MattAtlas]

Follow the format, please.

[Roostercat]

not going to post a defense or whatever until the proper format is up, but I believe the round ID for this was clE-aC4Y to put it out there

[Infernalistgamer]

37 minutes ago, Roostercat said:

not going to post a defense or whatever until the proper format is up, but I believe the round ID for this was clE-aC4Y to put it out there

Yes, that was in the post.
 

-----------------------------------------
A round of Bughunt (merc+borer) has ended! [Game ID: clE-aC4Y]
[11:37 PM]
There were 30 survivors (30 bluespace jumped) and 14 ghosts.
-----------------------------------------

[Peppermint]

I'll be taking this. Few questions.

- It was red alert at this point, right? What were the antags doing?

- How far into the round was this?

@Roostercat Need your reasons as to how you feel it was meta gaming + the warning wording as it looks like they just went purely off of having the janicart?

[Roostercat]

As far as I am aware, there wasn't any announcement or general consensus that the boarders were disguised as crew. Jurgi, sitting in the janitors office, saw someone dressed as a janitor with a janicart walk by and immediately called them out as an intruder. If they had asked around to see if they were a crewmember or at least did something else, I think it would be fine. But just immediately calling it out is metagaming to me. 

[Peppermint]

11 minutes ago, Roostercat said:

As far as I am aware, there wasn't any announcement or general consensus that the boarders were disguised as crew. Jurgi, sitting in the janitors office, saw someone dressed as a janitor with a janicart walk by and immediately called them out as an intruder. If they had asked around to see if they were a crewmember or at least did something else, I think it would be fine. But just immediately calling it out is metagaming to me. 

So far as I see this, it depends if there was any hint the intruders were hiding amongst the crew before this.

@Infernalistgamer Do you remember if there was at all?

I'll check through logs in a few days given the holidays, but that's where the crux of it will be I think.

[Infernalistgamer]

It was known the raiders had gone to ground, and were hiding, and there was a standing hue and cry across the station looking for them.

 

[Peppermint]

Hi, I've had a look through. Took a few days after an epic battle to get my laptop to read .jar files properly for the log program we use. But now all set.

From my point of view and from what I've seen here:

- Boarders show up.
- Crew realises there are borders. at [04:03:45.526]  (IRU-Geier)|(IRU-Geier (Investigator (Idris))) -> (Untitled Conversation): We have been boarders. Unknown amount of hostiles with unknown intentions. At least one is "An IPC armed with a Shotgun"
- Some borer stuff happens in the background.

This is where things split a little.

- Some of the mercs hold up a scientist at around 4:04 round time. Around 4:18 this breaks out and into a fight. The mercs fighting here get shot up and die. Another - Bullet - wanders off to do his own thing and hide within the crew.

Looks to be that sec knows there are some missing here. [04:25:41.317] SAY: /(Salvo Raccuso) : (Ceti Basic) Remainin' boarder, ye no need to die today, surrender yerself to security 'n no harm will be done to ye, 's 'e first 'n only offer, ye have two minutes to reply

- At 04:30 the one hiding as a janitor gets called out. I can't see much about the mercs being looked for however, up until this point - nobody seems to know Bullet, the guy you called out, existed at all as he'd been doing his own thing entirely separately.

I do however believe that your character, Jurgi, had reason to be alert to things out of the ordinary such as someone else dressed up as a janitor. The problem here as Rooster stated is that rather than just calling out it was weird, or talking to him yourself, you immediately leapt to him being part of the group of mercss despite there being no real indication he was with the group at all. For all you know, he could be anyone as a bunch of borer stuff was going down regardless. I can't find anything in the logs saying that security was aware that the boarders were hiding amongst the crew but that's not really important here.

The trouble is not that you found this guy weird, or wanted to inform security. It's just an issue that you went from 'okay, another janitor isn't awake' to 'Sec he's a boarder!' within a single leap.  Calling him out was entirely fine. It's just the way it was done that I also take issue with. Does that make sense @Infernalistgamer?

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by Peppermint

[Infernalistgamer]

I have to say it doesn't make sense to me, but I'm not the easiest to explain things to.  What would have been considered an appropriate response? Because it feels like you're telling me to intentionally ignore an antag who made a bad play, by posing as a janitor then going right past the one dedicated janitor?

Edited January 5, 2023 by Infernalistgamer

[Peppermint]

10 hours ago, Infernalistgamer said:

I have to say it doesn't make sense to me, but I'm not the easiest to explain things to.  What would have been considered an appropriate response? Because it feels like you're telling me to intentionally ignore an antag who made a bad play, by posing as a janitor then going right past the one dedicated janitor?

That's not what I'm saying at all. Finding the janitor odd is entirely fine. Calling him out as a boarder instantly without talking to him, interacting with him, or just saying like: "Hey, what's with the second janitor?" or whatever is not fine. The leap between seeing the janitor and immediately knowing he's a boarder after he walked past is the trouble, as how are you knowing that?

Overall the warning was entirely fine imo, and I don't see any reason to overturn it. If there's nothing new I'll close and archive in a day or so.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Peppermint

[Infernalistgamer]

I disagree, but I don't have any other useful arguments, go ahead and kill it

[Peppermint]

Locking and archiving then.