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Complaint - Ana Roh'hi'tin


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BYOND Key: Cakebatter

Player Byond Key: Suethecake

Reason for complaint: being overly aggressive as security

Approximate Date/Time: 4/14/2015 @ 6:10PM EST


I've been a lurker on these forums for a while now, never posting but always paying attention to what goes on here. I finally went ahead and created an account because I believe this needs to be addressed.


Here's what happened:


It was close to the end of the round and I was in escape with most of the crew, sitting around waiting for the evac shuttle to arrive. There was a cargo tug parked near where I was sitting, and I hopped on and was sitting on it out of curiosity. That's when Ana Roh'hi'tin came in and started ordering me to get off of the tug. Even Centurion said "I see no harm." But she was adamant, and did not hesitate to grab my character and pull her off of the tug by force. I walked to the other side of glass, where she proceeded to call me a "stupid fucfking bitch." In response I called her a furball, and that's when she told another officer to arrest me for "insulting an officer." Here are the logs for this: (Note: my character is Mikayla Newbern)

 

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After that, I couldn't believe she was serious about having me arrested for insulting her so I ran to the other side of escape. Ana Roh'hi'tin personally started chasing after me, accompanied by 3 other officers. One of the officers took out a baton, ran at me, and I knocked it out of his hand. That's when Ana Roh'hi'tin picked it up. With 4 officers chasing after me I was cornered, and then beaten with the stunbaton by Ana. She beat me until my ribs were broken. Here are the logs for this, accompanied by fellow officers telling her to, y'know, stop BEATING ME TO DEATH.

 

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Now, this to me is classic shitcurity--I don't know if this sort of thing usually flies here but on every server I've ever played on it's not OK for a sec officer to use a harmbaton on an unarmed person. I'm still not even sure 'insulting an officer' is an arrestable offense, and certainly not one to warrant breaking my goddamn character's ribs over. Especially when she was the one who started with the insults. Her character really needs to tone it down a few dozen notches.

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This sounds absolutely horrid.


Insulting an officer is a crime, yes, but all the decent officers don't punish you for it.


Arresting someone for insulting an officer after the officer insulted someone personally is also just messed up.


While you did warrant a little bit of further hostility by escaping, Ana was nowhere in the right to beat a prisoner that badly. Security action like this is unacceptable.

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"Insulting an officer" is indeed a crime, however it is not intended to be used in situations like that in the slightest.


It's supposed to be a way to permit the arrest of someone who is excessively insulting or rude, such as screaming "SHITCURITY" over the radio or similar, not for a single offhanded comment. Additionally, I don't see you violating any regulations in the first place in the logs provided. Unless, of course, she was the head of security or your own supervisor had ordered you off. Security Officers do not have the authority to give orders in the manner that she did. That's a possible case for an i214, depending on her role at the time, and a definite case of i104©.


Irregardless, beating your character in such a manner is a clear violation of i117, and probably a i218© due to the severity of the injuries.

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What security role was Ana specifically? Officer, detective, or CSI agent?

I believe she was Head of Security, actually.

 

If she was HOS, she was really only in the wrong by beating you. So a violation of i117 or i218©. Probably the latter, since a broken rib can easily be life-threatening.

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Okay... Im usually on Sue's side about her security method, but this seems downright SHIT. Seriously, you get what you give, Ana can't get respect since she never fucking gives it to people. At first, for resisting arrest for insulting and Officer, you wouldn't have deserved a stunbaton being used at all, but once you disarmed that baton from the Officer, you deserved non-lethal force batonning. Im honestly suprised that none of the other Officers had acted on Roh'hi'tin.... She was clearly a danger to the crew and was breaking regulations and the law.. If I had been there as my HoS or Captain, I would have taken out my gun and aimed it at her and ordered her to stop, and had Officers detain her. Unacceptable behaviour.

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Guest Marlon Phoenix

Okay, because Ana has a history of murdering/beating people in droves as a CSI agent with things like LAWP's and guns. At least she had reasonable reasons to have a stunstick, even if it was on harm intent in a public area over a small charge.

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I only hit you twice, actually. I intended to harmbaton you once, not twice, so breaking your ribs was entirely not what I wanted to do and I do apologize for that.


The reason you were treated as such was because previously in the round, Ana was blown up nearly point blank by a bomb and almost died in space. Medical saved her, and she was promoted - unwillingly - to Head of Security. So she was upset, and already has no tolerance for people insulting her. You got charged with a crime and ran. I was promoted to HoS from detective and had no belt or weapons beside anything lethal, so I tried to just disarm you before you disarmed the officer - and as soon as his baton dropped, you made a move to pick it up. I was faster than you.


In essence, you ran immediately when I expressed interest in arresting you, fought with security and tried to steal the weapon off of an officer, and you didn't expect to get clock with a baton? Hitting you twice was unintended, I will restate. The baton does 10 brute per swing and 20 is the threshhold for breaking bones. It was purely an accident that I hit you twice, a mistake on my part. And for that, I do apologize.


However, given that you insulted the Head of Security, then fled a peaceable arrest, upgrading it to batons when you pushed and then tried to steal the weapon of an officer, I'm not inclined to apologize or feel sorry for attempting to arrest you.

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How do I put this simply?


How a decent officer handles this situation:


Flash/Stun Baton (non-harm intent) once > Handcuffs > Brig shuttle


How the situation was handled:

 

Baseball_bat_bash_ONE_HIT_Greyscale.gif

 

And that's why this complaint exists. Okay? That is not how a security officer conducts themselves.

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Guest Marlon Phoenix

Now that Ana Sue has posted, I'll say that her response with harmbaton was excessive but the fact you were stunstick'd isn't excessive. You disarmed an officer, which was itself a form of attack and attempted to flee the arrest. You made the conscious decision to flee, and that means you accept the consequence of getting an escalation of force used against you.


The only questionable aspect is the harm baton, which we have to then decide if it is justifiable because of her IC mental state.


I will say I really wish you had filed an incident report first instead of a character complaint, because DO's can't do anything about Ana because no one files them on her.

Edited by Marlon Phoenix
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She had sunglasses on, so flash wouldn't work. And she was harmbatonned for IC reasons, so.


I dunno what more I can clarify. For those who don't know, harmbatonning someone displays 3 messages but it only counts as one hit.


So. 6 messages = 2 hits.

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I'm tempted to back up Sue with that information.


I actually think Ana did a bad job as a HoS/sec member. Not for the harmbatoning, but for asking Mikayla to get off the cargo train in a really brash manner, and arresting her for returning Ana's insults. However, this seems to me like an IC situation. Why?

 

  • -Ana was not playing as HoS, but was promoted to being one during the round, against her will

    -Ana had just been through some major IC trauma

    -People (imo) have a right to fuck up at their job under extenuating circumstances. It's RP, people break irl too. If you were just nearly blown up by a bomb you would probably have a short fuse and make errors of judgement too

 

I would expect somebody in the position of HoS, under normal circumstances, to not start fights themselves or brig people over petty things, but Ana was not a regular HoS, nor were these normal circumstances. As for the beating, the single (intended) hit was fully deserved given you had all of sec chase you around simply because you didn't want to be arrested.


also Cass is that a Higurashi gif

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I'm tempted to back up Sue with that information.


I actually think Ana did a bad job as a HoS/sec member. Not for the harmbatoning, but for asking Mikayla to get off the cargo train in a really brash manner, and arresting her for returning Ana's insults. However, this seems to me like an IC situation. Why?

 

  • -Ana was not playing as HoS, but was promoted to being one during the round, against her will

    -Ana had just been through some major IC trauma

    -People (imo) have a right to fuck up at their job under extenuating circumstances. It's RP, people break irl too. If you were just nearly blown up by a bomb you would probably have a short fuse and make errors of judgement too

 

I would expect somebody in the position of HoS, under normal circumstances, to not start fights themselves or brig people over petty things, but Ana was not a regular HoS, nor were these normal circumstances. As for the beating, the single (intended) hit was fully deserved given you had all of sec chase you around simply because you didn't want to be arrested.


also Cass is that a Higurashi gif

 

Ana has been an HoS before, that said, so it's not as if the job and role was something new to her.


As stated by Jack, this would have been a great incident report, instead of a character complaint. I believe it would have made more sense in the context, as well.

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Ana has been an HoS before, that said, so it's not as if the job and role was something new to her.


As stated by Jack, this would have been a great incident report, instead of a character complaint. I believe it would have made more sense in the context, as well.

I don't know why, but part of me wants to keep these separated. Like, being promoted to interim head isn't the same as joining as a head. OOCly, you don't come in expecting to have these responsibilities. So even if you're whitelisted, if you're being promoted ICly due to circumstances out of your control, it shouldn't be treated with the same level of harshness it would be if you willingly joined as a head. But at the same time, it's an IC issue here, and in IC logic Ana should be responsible as a head, so...


I don't know, perhaps someone else can explain why I have that impression. But does that make any sense?

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Also note that Roh'hi'tin did not have an implant, due to being promoted.


Therefore, her judgement calls would be up for debate and the best interests of NT are honestly irrelevant in this case.

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Guest Menown

I witnessed this. Ana attempted to flash, but the subject had glasses on, meaning she couldn't be. Ana took off on a chase around escape after her, and the subject disarmed an officer (something that can be considered you going for the weapon, and therefore much more of a threat than "insulting"). Upon beating once, Ana beat her again, likely an accident, as these things happen with lag, which was what it probably was. She was then cuffed.


The problem, your character was acting like a troll the whole round. You said several things over the radio as well as to some other characters aboard the station. Fleeing from an arrest adds ten minutes to your charge, whether it was a simple trespassing or what. I don't see as what she did as shitcurity. Myself, I would have probably tased you, but Ana going for harmbaton isn't something that was entirely "bad", per-say, as you showed yourself to be a capable threat, and willing to flee given the chance.


You weren't killed, and you weren't taken out of the round, given that it was round end, so in essence, your RP wasn't ruined.

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As Frances mentioned above, while the method of subduing the perpetrator was not altogether inappropriate, it was rather unprofessional to order someone around in such a manner and then cite the easiest law to book someone for (that is - insulting an officer) and then chase them down under a legal pretense. This isn't the first time Sue has done this with Ana by a long shot - I can recall an instance before the detective and (my) forensic technician ID's were separated in which Ana repeatedly violated orders in an attempt to arrest the character who took the detective revolver - despite both individuals carrying the exact same title of "forensic technician." Specifically, she continued to set the individual to "arrest" despite being ordered to cease and, when the two met, decided the best course of action was to immediately throw a flashbang at them.


Why anyone would ever promote an individual with a long-standing record of such behavior is beyond me.


This aggression is so intense and repetitive that I actually begin to wonder if this isn't some purposeful act on the part of Ana - but rather aggression on Sue's part. I can't say I've had a pleasant interaction ("pleasant" meaning "fun," not necessarily platonic) with this character ever, on any of my nineteen different characters, something I can't say about any other player or character. Let's also not forget the incident in which Ana unloaded the revolver's entire ammunition reserve on (and ultimately decapitated) a fleeing, handcuffed suspect.


I know I'm not alone in that this brazen hostility leads me to avoid any character that I know Sue to be playing. Again, this particular instance may not have been particularly cringe-worthy, but in my opinion there's definitely a long-term problem that needs to be addressed.

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This isn't the first time Sue has done this with Ana by a long shot - I can recall an instance before the detective and (my) forensic technician ID's were separated in which Ana repeatedly violated orders in an attempt to arrest the character who took the detective revolver - despite both individuals carrying the exact same title of "forensic technician." Specifically, she continued to set the individual to "arrest" despite being ordered to cease and, when the two met, decided the best course of action was to immediately throw a flashbang at them.

 

Don't try to play this up as anything more than you choosing to be ignorant - this was way back when the bug existed if your detective alt title was FT, your in game title would be. It was an error. I even informed you of this OOCly and you chose to ignore it in favor of exacerbating IC conflict. Why you had even entered the detective's office to steal a revolver you had no business carrying to begin with ('just in case' is basically the same as the HoS walking into the armory to get a laser rifle 'just in case'; this seems to be a repeating issue with your characters making sure to have weapons on them at all times) is beyond me. You chose, and thereby acted through your character, to ignore what was basically a harmless bug and goad my character into hostile responses by inviting it with equally hostile responses. Pot calling the kettle black much.

 

Why anyone would ever promote an individual with a long-standing record of such behavior is beyond me.

 

You mean like your convicted space pirate, wherein piracy is a crime that typically carries above a twenty year sentence? Yeah. Not irony at all.

 

This aggression is so intense and repetitive that I actually begin to wonder if this isn't some purposeful act on the part of Ana - but rather aggression on Sue's part. I can't say I've had a pleasant interaction with this character ever, on any of my nineteen different characters, something I can't say about any other player or character. Let's also not forget the incident in which Ana unloaded the revolver's entire ammunition reserve on (and ultimately decapitated) a fleeing, handcuffed suspect.

 

And I do believe the end result of that was no action taken due to it being considered justified. You're perfectly free to disagree with the actions I take, but your opinions on them don't become fact. I more than aptly explained my justification and my reasoning when people started whining about that; that's all I really can do. I don't think I did anything wrong and acted well within the bounds of believability and reason.

 

I know I'm not alone in that this brazen hostility leads me to avoid any character that I know Sue to be playing. Again, this particular instance may not have been particularly cringe-worthy, but in my opinion there's definitely a long-term problem that needs to be addressed.

 

The irony of you saying this more than anyone else leaves a bad taste in my mouth. You, the convicted space pirate who prints weapons every round and keeps improvised and real weapons on him at all times, then trying to justify it as not being metagaming because 'you do it every round' (hint: it's still metagaming) attempting to insinuate that my actions are ever done without a good reason leaves me unsure if you're being serious or if you're just oblivious to how outrageous it is. I just want to repeat that: You have a character who is a convicted felon who manufactures and carries weapons all the time in a non-combat, civilian position, and you're offended by one of my characters being mean.


Intense and repetitive aggression? You play a perma antag space pirate who used to smuggle guns into cargo for fun. Seriously.

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Read the previous post, and then read this.

 

[...] I actually begin to wonder if this isn't some purposeful act on the part of Ana - but rather aggression on Sue's part.

 

You seem incapable of separating a character from a player. Rather than "your character," I frequently see "you" instead. You seem intent on defaming the players themselves, rather than simply dealing with the characters. Your decision to pick apart my post, justify every little piece of it, and throw insults back at me is exactly what I am talking about when I mention your hostility as a player, not Ana's hostility as a character.


I'm trying to help. I repeatedly stated that this was my opinion on your behavior. You can either take criticism as a means to improve, or you can point the finger at everyone else - your choice.

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I think you're using some armchair psychiatry to make up stuff where there is none - if you think I am going to sit here and type 'your character' for every instance of a second person pronoun you must be nuts.


My main point is I don't think your criticism is valid either because you your characters have invited the exact same behavior you are trying to criticize by acting hostile first, or because of the hypocrisy I've already pointed out. If you want to think me pointing out the flaws in your argument is trying to shift the blame, that's your prerogative I guess.


You're free to your opinion, but I'm equally free to defend myself, especially in a serious player complaint - if you thought I would lay down and take it, or not doing so is me overreacting, well, I dunno. You're wrong, I guess?

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Let me take this in another direction, then - do you think Ana is the slightest bit inappropriately hostile towards others? Coupled with the extremely frequent anti-antag posts you pepper around the board, how else are people supposed to interpret your overall attitude other than "I hate antagonists and I pick jobs with guns because I want to remove them from the game?"


That's what you've more or less admitted in one of the above links.

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I don't think Sue's out to hate anyone. (Though I think having player complaints made against you constantly has to take a toll on your patience past a point, even if most of them get thrown out, so I'd understand her behaving abrasively at times.)


I don't see how you can perceive what Sue just posted as a personal attack, while ignoring the fact that she is trying to point out the very kind of behavior you are criticizing in her play is behavior you yourself have also extensively engaged in. (Well, putting aside the one outright negative incident you brought up, which I believe she provided a sufficient explanation for).


And the thing are these things. Are. Not bad.


Ex-space pirate? Sure. Roleplay can be about having cool characters, as long as they don't break immersion. Baddies that instigate conflict, or anyone who isn't your "run-of-the-mill" law-abiding employee can breathe some fresh air in an otherwise stale scene. And yes, you have perfectly the right to tell me that these characters should be held to a certain standard, and it is not their job to act like an outright dick every round, but I will reiterate by saying that nobody has succeeded in demonstrating that this is what happened here.


I feel like certain people are demanding all members of sec act like perfectly flawless beacons of holy goodness, when in fact, this is more immersion-breaking than having them crack under the pressure from time to time, like every human being does.

 

Coupled with the extremely frequent anti-antag posts you pepper around the board, how else are people supposed to interpret your overall attitude other than "I hate antagonists and I pick jobs with guns because I want to remove them from the game?"
By actually judging people based on intelligent conclusions drawn from their actions, and not from pointless and insignificant rants or things they might have said in the past that might or might not have nothing to do with the way they actually decide to act?
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By actually judging people based on intelligent conclusions drawn from their actions, and not from pointless and insignificant rants or things they might have in the past that might or might not have nothing to do with the way they actually decide to act?

 

Some of them are fairly old, true - but some are also fairly recent. All I'm trying to do is explain why I feel the way I do when I see Ana on the crew manifest and display the pattern that's lead me to my conclusions in the hopes that maybe she'll take some of it to heart and maybe even change some minds. If not? That's fine. Again, this is all my opinion, not a declaration of unequivocal wrongdoing.

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