Valkrae Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 I will make the topic for open discussion. This might be an unrelated thing, but I've asked Jackboot for permission to do a full rework of the Vox, to include personality, language, RoE, and other things needed during a round.
SierraKomodo Posted April 15, 2015 Author Posted April 15, 2015 This thread's been pulled away from what I was originally actually making this complaint for twice now, I give up. Feel free to close this when you guys are done
nbielinski Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 I concur with Sierra, the entire debate has been derailed and burned. No sense in replying to any of it now. Thank you all for your time.
Frances Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 This thread's been pulled away from what I was originally actually making this complaint for twice now, I give up. Feel free to close this when you guys are done I concur with Sierra, the entire debate has been derailed and burned. No sense in replying to any of it now. Thank you all for your time. If you guys want to abandon the debate, understand that you did so of your own volition. There's about 6 posts of people debating Vox behavior as a whole, which was then split into its own topic. You are free to bring the complaint back on track by explaining clearly what you are still dissatisfied with, and what you would like to see done against it. If you're giving up, don't come back later saying "well this bad thing happened but nobody wanted to deal with it", because that decision is your own.
SierraKomodo Posted April 15, 2015 Author Posted April 15, 2015 This thread's been pulled away from what I was originally actually making this complaint for twice now, I give up. Feel free to close this when you guys are done I concur with Sierra, the entire debate has been derailed and burned. No sense in replying to any of it now. Thank you all for your time. If you guys want to abandon the debate, understand that you did so of your own volition. There's about 6 posts of people debating Vox behavior as a whole, which was then split into its own topic. You are free to bring the complaint back on track by explaining clearly what you are still dissatisfied with, and what you would like to see done against it. If you're giving up, don't come back later saying "well this bad thing happened but nobody wanted to deal with it", because that decision is your own. The main thing I had an issue with was being attacked with no word or warning. I was fired upon the moment I was spotted; I hadn't even realised she was there until the first hit that moved me and pinned me to the wall. If the crossbow wasn't on the ground, it probably was in my hand and I'd misclicked the drop button, which makes sense the vox would register that as a threat. But the thing is, I'd made no move to load it, or aim it, or fire it. Basically, all I want is, in the future, don't just start shooting at me unless I've already been aggressive against the antags. As a player, I prefer to RP things when possible over use in game click-spam combat mechanics. If the RP ends with me being killed for whatever reason, fine, at least there was interaction and warning for it, and some chance for me to wiggle my way into at least staying /alive/.
Frances Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 The main thing I had an issue with was being attacked with no word or warning. I was fired upon the moment I was spotted; I hadn't even realised she was there until the first hit that moved me and pinned me to the wall. If the crossbow wasn't on the ground, it probably was in my hand and I'd misclicked the drop button, which makes sense the vox would register that as a threat. But the thing is, I'd made no move to load it, or aim it, or fire it. Basically, all I want is, in the future, don't just start shooting at me unless I've already been aggressive against the antags. The problem is that you guys were in space, and you pretty clearly came at her holding a weapon, so there's not much that could've been done. You can communicate in an atmosphere, and I have indeed seen Sue, as an armed antag, communicate with armed members of the crew without resorting to hostilities. But in this case, she could not have guessed your intent. You see the friend of the person you just killed come at you with a weapon, the general assumption is that they are out for revenge.
Jamini Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 Frances: Sue had a station headset. She was able to talk to us.
Frances Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 Frances: Sue had a station headset. She was able to talk to us. Then she should have made an effort to communicate with Katana and verify their intents, as is usually common courtesy in these situations unless you've already established somehow the person is going to be hostile. We should wait to see what she has to say about that, in this case.
Jamini Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) Frances: Sue had a station headset. She was able to talk to us. Then she should have made an effort to communicate with Katana and verify their intents, as is usually common courtesy in these situations unless you've already established somehow the person is going to be hostile. We should wait to see what she has to say about that, in this case. At the very least I know she had a headset, as she informed us of the atmospherics sabotage over radio to lure us out for the initial attempt to sopo Nasir and Oliver. I do not know if she was wearing it or her vox headset however. I will also point out that the initial move made by sue in this altercation was an attempt to shoot both myself and Oliver (who had no ranged weapons nor reason to carry them) with sopos. Which is borderline in and of itself. Edited April 15, 2015 by Guest
nbielinski Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 The main thing I had an issue with was being attacked with no word or warning. I was fired upon the moment I was spotted; I hadn't even realised she was there until the first hit that moved me and pinned me to the wall. If the crossbow wasn't on the ground, it probably was in my hand and I'd misclicked the drop button, which makes sense the vox would register that as a threat. But the thing is, I'd made no move to load it, or aim it, or fire it. Basically, all I want is, in the future, don't just start shooting at me unless I've already been aggressive against the antags. The problem is that you guys were in space, and you pretty clearly came at her holding a weapon, so there's not much that could've been done. You can communicate in an atmosphere, and I have indeed seen Sue, as an armed antag, communicate with armed members of the crew without resorting to hostilities. But in this case, she could not have guessed your intent. You see the friend of the person you just killed come at you with a weapon, the general assumption is that they are out for revenge. Well that's just the thing, revenge KILLING, because let us not split hairs here. You don't walk back to the crime scene expecting flowers and hugs when you're toting a gun you just used to kill someone. The revenge KILLING and murder of at least one person, is highly unneeded, and the actions taken by the Vox seemed to have several attempts to leave, many many tries where they could have left and gone on about their daily business. But as stated in your, I think third argument that was dismissed, the Vox chose to come back and try and start conflict. Ganking, which, as you stated, is not at all how things should be handled. Throughout the entirety of this forum the back and forth comes to somewhat of a consensus that if the Vox had run and actually chosen not to keep trying to pick off crew, things would have worked out better and maybe RP could have gone through. But the issue seemed to be that the Vox simply couldn't help himself/herself from shooting another engineer. And if randomly starting a fight with someone else, rather, not starting a fight but gunning someone down for the sheer joy of gunning someone down isn't at least punishable by a warning or antag ban. I don't know what is.
Frances Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 I will also point out that the initial move made by sue in this altercation was an attempt to shoot both myself and Oliver (who had no ranged weapons nor reason to carry them) with sopos. Which is borderline in and of itself.Attempted kidnapping. If antagonists are no longer allowed to try to kidnap station crew, we will be living in a sad day and age. Well that's just the thing, revenge KILLING, because let us not split hairs here. You don't walk back to the crime scene expecting flowers and hugs when you're toting a gun you just used to kill someone. The revenge KILLING and murder of at least one person, is highly unneeded, and the actions taken by the Vox seemed to have several attempts to leave, many many tries where they could have left and gone on about their daily business. But as stated in your, I think third argument that was dismissed, the Vox chose to come back and try and start conflict. Ganking, which, as you stated, is not at all how things should be handled. Throughout the entirety of this forum the back and forth comes to somewhat of a consensus that if the Vox had run and actually chosen not to keep trying to pick off crew, things would have worked out better and maybe RP could have gone through. But the issue seemed to be that the Vox simply couldn't help himself/herself from shooting another engineer. And if randomly starting a fight with someone else, rather, not starting a fight but gunning someone down for the sheer joy of gunning someone down isn't at least punishable by a warning or antag ban. I don't know what is.I will try to keep things as simple as possible, because if I attempt to take apart every issue I find with your post individually I'll end up with an essay. The intent of Sue was not to kill someone, but to create conflict in a looser term. It happened that she encountered an individual who was armed and affiliated with the person she had just killed. At this point, the only mistake I can see she made was to not attempt to hail that individual (Katana) over radio to confirm their intents. I am not looking to hear what you think she should have done, but what you think she did do that was bad besides that, and why it was bad. Was she at fault for not trying to talk to Katana? I'm going to say yes, at least a little. Was she at fault for doing anything else? And if so, why?
SierraKomodo Posted April 15, 2015 Author Posted April 15, 2015 I'm just going to mention this is being handled in PM between myself and Sue. Unless she has anything else she wants to add, I think it's safe to close the thread at this point.
Baka Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 We will be meditating with both sides to figure out what has happen, and come to a conclusion. We will be contacting those who were involved and be reaching a resolution of what should be done. I will be closing and archiving this thread. Feel free to contact myself if there's any more question, comments, or concern. Thank you.
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