Complaint - Suethecake, vox

[SierraKomodo]

BYOND Key: SierraKomodo

Player Byond Key: Suethecake (As Kahikahakichakita)

Reason for complaint: Immediately attacking and killing characters at the end of the round, without prior provocation (And without any kind of interaction. Just showed up, immediately shot, and dragged off the body)

Approximate Date/Time: April 14, 2014, approximately 8:45 PM Pacific

Just a brief summary of what happened... Katana Charlie was out EVA, tracking Oliver Stefan's GPS coordinates, whom apparently had been killed in the same manner as myself shortly after. While I'm trying to figure out how to get the rods out of him so I can move his body, Kahikahakichakita shows up and before I've realised they're there, I'm being fired on without any word or warning, and then constantly shot until I'm dead. I did have a crossbow that I found outside while looking for oliver, but that had been dropped to the 'ground' while I was trying to get Oliver's body, and I was otherwise unarmed. From what I've been told, pretty much the exact same thing happened to Oliver.

The things that really bother me about this are the pure gankyness of what happened, and the fact that Sue's one of the more vocal people about disliking antags for doing this exact kind of thing.

[nbielinski]

I must concur on this fact, and this does not mean I say Oliver was without fault. He did indeed go after the vox for a short time to hopefully drive them off from stealing more air. The vox apparently thought that atmospherics grief in stopping fresh air from getting into the systems was a good idea. None the less my character had just done a sweep of the area and I was slowly pulling myself back with the aid of Nasir K. as a rod had been sticking out of my chest. Shortly after, I saw and attempted to push the vox off, hopefully back into space. And they seemed to have run off. I then turned to leave and suddenly the vox came back around the corner with another weapon, and this time shot and pinned me to the wall. To which I screamed for help and promptly went crit. There I died and after ghosting it seemed the vox remained around my body. Now I am no military strategist, but this is usually what occurs when a sniper lays in wait near the body of an enemy in the hopes of picking off more of the enemy force. And in my death, this did happen as Miss Sierras' character came and promptly attempted to pull my corpse back inside only to hit by a hail of rods and being pinned to walls.

I have a small pic of the issue in question here:

http://postimg.org/image/koszxbnkr/

In which we can clearly see that not only has the engineer been shot in the same position as Oliver, but will be shot several more times and die there. And before the question is raised, as I recall once I died I was able to message about four people, get responses, and even start a new youtube track before Sierras' character came forth to try and rescue me. So I doubt there is coincidence in this.

I will attempt not to make presumptions in this but it is difficult as Miss Sue seems to have a history of somewhat cruel characters who break the line between duty and being cruel, and seem to have a pension for wanton cruelty, anger, and inhumanity towards others. Herein lies the issue, of course there might be reasons, traumatic events and issues that have caused a brash attitude. But then there comes the question as to where the line stands between having a character who is slightly mean and often times not caring to the feelings of others, and a character who takes any chance they can get to, simply put, beat the shit out of other people.

[Susan]

Firstly:

I adminhelped about what to do and decided to, then stop, after removing the air can from the air tank. Okay.

I was put into a Vox after the round had started and a series of events meant that only me and a second Vox were all that was left out of the five. At the time I only knew of myself, and not the other. Not knowing what to do, I decided to cut off the air as a transfer was called, then sighed and went back to the Skipjack. Preparing to leave, I heard that Nasir was repairing my damage and, since I had a sleepygun, decided that taking the CE hostage at this time was a good opportunity and might help make up for a round of basically nothing due to multiple things.

Then I learned Vox sleepyguns no longer work on people in hardsuits. Okay. I pissed off the CE and Stefan who proceed to chase me around for like three minutes trying to clobber/stunglove me. I get off my only crossbow bolt in this period of time, on Stefan. Sure. I try to lose them and flee, but get gloved. They almost manage to kill me after I was gloved by removing my tank and I escape. Not giving up trying to take the CE hostage, I go back to get a spike thrower.

Since Oliver is injured I think maybe they'll cooperate - no. Despite Oliver having a bolt sticking out of his arm they both try to come at me again and I can't get in a word edgewise. Okay. I hit Oliver and pin him to the wall, then get Nasir hit and he flies off into space from the force. I don't know what made me finish off Oliver, it was a snap decision. Looking back, I don't think it was right. I wanted to pin him a few times to go back and get cable ties to take him, but I went overboard. Okay.

Fast forward, I decide to go back to get Oliver to bring to Voxland. When I go to get him, I see another engineer with a crossbow in hand - if you did drop it, it was after I shot you, because I saw it in your hand - and panicked. I just got into a fight with two other engineers who fought basically to the death and, since you were an IPC, I figured you could take a few bolts to pin you while me and my other Vox went to get cuffs to cuff you and bring you in for salvage. I've seen IPCs take multiple bolts and live. What I didn't account for was space. The tears in the suit killed you.

Basically, it was a series of unfortunate events, and I am sorry you both died. It was really my first time ever playing Vox, and I didn't know how potent the guns were or that non-lethal syringes didn't work on dudes in hardsuits, as when I was sec fighting Vox they actually /did/ work on me in a space suit. So I do apologize for killing you both. I just wanted to take some hostages or something, make up for a boring round. I severely underestimated the guns and pinning people.

[Frances]

I will attempt not to make presumptions in this but it is difficult as Miss Sue seems to have a history of somewhat cruel characters who break the line between duty and being cruel, and seem to have a pension for wanton cruelty, anger, and inhumanity towards others.

I feel bad having to defend Sue every time a complaint against her comes up, but isn't this honestly an exaggeration?

So Katana shows up, weapon in hand, in space, coming to the very location where one of his(her? idk, sorry) fellow engineers has just been killed after engaging a Vox in combat. Said Vox is still around, hoping to recover the body themselves, and sees a second engineer coming with a crossbow and unknown intent. Why exactly should that Vox not have attacked?

I get that Katana was trying to look out for their buddy. It's in space, there's not much to do, it sucks. But there was already fighting back then (instigated by engineers, I might add), somebody got killed, and if you hang around in the same area while carrying weapons, chances are you're going to get shot too.

I fail to see how Sue can be held responsible for this. What would you have her do, run away because "she might have to kill someone"? Are antags there to generate conflict, or act spooky without ever harming a soul?

[SierraKomodo]

It's not that I was killed, it's that it was immediately shoot. And shoot repeatedly, even after I was disarmed and pinned to the wall. One shot to pin and disarm me would have been fine. Locking onto me instead of shooting would have been fine. Both of those create an oppurtunity for some form of RP, instead of just unloading into me until I'm dead.

If the scene started out that way, and still ended up with me dead because Katana refused to cooperate, then that would have been fine. But as it stands, there was no chance for anything at all beyond two or three radio messages calling for help

[nbielinski]

I will attempt not to make presumptions in this but it is difficult as Miss Sue seems to have a history of somewhat cruel characters who break the line between duty and being cruel, and seem to have a pension for wanton cruelty, anger, and inhumanity towards others.

 

So Katana shows up, weapon in hand, in space, coming to the very location where one of his(her? idk, sorry) fellow engineers has just been killed after engaging a Vox in combat. Said Vox is still around, hoping to recover the body themselves, and sees a second engineer coming with a crossbow and unknown intent. Why exactly should that Vox not have attacked?

 

Well I wish to thank you Frances, I know it might seem tedious to respond and defend at every stage but this is how things get worked out. And its not that the Vox killed Oliver, its the fact that the Vox stayed around after this. As I said it was SOME time after Oliver had been gunned down, as we all know it takes some time from someone to die, and even after ghosting my character screamed for the a good few minutes. Till death.

And I feel you miss my point, I am simply stating that this tactic seemed to be baiting. Shooting one poor bastard in the gut and leaving him to scream pleas for help then running behind cover to pop the head off the next poor bastard that comes looking. Whether or not Sierra had a gun is irrelevant at the time. I know that the Vox had a radio. I know the vox stayed nearby and I damn sure know the Vox heard Stefan scream at the top of his one working lung, "GPS. GPS. Goddamn it GPS." Meaning that intentionally or not, there was the knowledge that SOMEONE would come looking.

I take that personally not as the Vox was running off to hopefully lose the tail she/he had just gained, I take that as: The vox has just shot a man to death, purposefully or not, and others have been informed. And might I remind those reading that just at this point, an alarm for meteorites was called. Even more a reason to leave the dying Stefan to bleed out in his suit and head back to the shuttle. Personally I see it as less the Vox was caught unprepared, more as they attempted to train their sights on the next person incoming.

And just as a final note. Frances, you mentioned that the Vox was still around hoping to recover Stefans body from the site for some odd reason. But, as I said, after a few moments passed and Stefan died out. Enough time for the IPC to find the GPS location (A fucking hard job to do if you've ever had to navigate via GPS) the Vox attacked. Now just to reitterate, you said that the Vox wanted to take Stefans corpse. But in this picture.

http://postimg.org/image/koszxbnkr/

Even after the several minutes between attacks. Stefans body is still in the same spot, nailed to the wall. Right next to the IPC.

[Frances]

Although only Sue can provide the specifics, there are a lot of possible reasons why the Vox would have been delayed in coming back to retrieve the body, ranging from lack of organization or support (Sue did say she was working alone) to outright incompetence. I will suggest that this particular Vox (and maybe by extension Sue) has simply not thought that other people would be coming back to the body's location at the exact same time she did, and was forced to defend herself when confronted with the (armed) friend of the person she had just shot and killed.

Keep in mind this is in space, not in a crowded station hallway where it would have made far more sense to escape as fast as possible.

Edit: I'm a bit confused by your post so I'm not sure if the point you're trying to make is that Stefan's body was left afterwards, but it's quite possible that after finding (and having to fight) more enemies at the zone where she was trying to recover the body, the Vox might've simply said "fuck this" and abandoned the task.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Guest

[nbielinski]

I get that Katana was trying to look out for their buddy. It's in space, there's not much to do, it sucks. But there was already fighting back then (instigated by engineers, I might add), somebody got killed.

 

Oh and before I rest, seeing as how I might not be able to respond tomorrow, I wish to clear this up. The Vox, had just taken our air supply. Not just the air pumps or anything. But the ENTIRE supply of fresh air to the station. Regardless of whether or not the station was inches from the calling of a shuttle, the Vox had essentially placed a vice around the throat of the station with a timer on it to close ever so slowly each time there was a breach or a room needed to be filled. Engineering was out fixing the tank that had been broken into. Thats when the Vox jumped us and tried to sleep dart us for the "lolprisoner" antag plan that has become very popular. Engineering didn't really start the fight, just so there is no mis-communication.

[Frances]

Oh and before I rest, seeing as how I might not be able to respond tomorrow, I wish to clear this up. The Vox, had just taken our air supply. Not just the air pumps or anything. But the ENTIRE supply of fresh air to the station. Regardless of whether or not the station was inches from the calling of a shuttle, the Vox had essentially placed a vice around the throat of the station with a timer on it to close ever so slowly each time there was a breach or a room needed to be filled. Engineering was out fixing the tank that had been broken into. Thats when the Vox jumped us and tried to sleep dart us for the "lolprisoner" antag plan that has become very popular. Engineering didn't really start the fight, just so there is no mis-communication.

What exactly are antags supposed to do, then? Both of these seem like fairly reasonable roleplaying scenarios, which are free to develop in a multitude of interesting ways.

I feel like saying antags can't kidnap crew or severely sabotage the station heavily limits the amount of actions available to them.

[nbielinski]

Although only Sue can provide the specifics, there are a lot of possible reasons why the Vox would have been delayed in coming back to retrieve the body, ranging from lack of organization or support (Sue did say she was working alone) to outright incompetence. I will suggest that this particular Vox (and maybe by extension Sue) has simply not thought that other people would be coming back to the body's location at the exact same time she did, and was forced to defend herself when confronted with the (armed) friend of the person she had just shot and killed.

Keep in mind this is in space, not in a crowded station hallway where it would have made far more sense to escape as fast as possible.

 

No Frances it is not a crowded hallway, rather it was a completely open patch of station without any shielding slowly coming under fire from meteorites. Sue, Jamini and hell anyone involved can tell you that just prior to Stefan getting offed, the lowest tank of the right hand side of the atmospherics windows got blown open. Even more a reason to run. And frankly, I know the Vox are not meant to be experts in the whole..humans..thing. But if that is true, and the Vox did not understand that humans would be coming to the rescue (highly unlikely) then how did that Vox know the CE was of importance, and how did the Vox know that if they cut off that particular tank from the station, that no fresh air would come in?

I'm sorry to say that it seems too unlikely that the Vox would be unaware of human customs to, "Save the motherfucker who is screaming for help" but be aware of not only the ranking of individuals onboard the station, as well as the layout of how air intake was designed.

 

Oh and before I rest, seeing as how I might not be able to respond tomorrow, I wish to clear this up. The Vox, had just taken our air supply. Not just the air pumps or anything. But the ENTIRE supply of fresh air to the station. Regardless of whether or not the station was inches from the calling of a shuttle, the Vox had essentially placed a vice around the throat of the station with a timer on it to close ever so slowly each time there was a breach or a room needed to be filled. Engineering was out fixing the tank that had been broken into. Thats when the Vox jumped us and tried to sleep dart us for the "lolprisoner" antag plan that has become very popular. Engineering didn't really start the fight, just so there is no mis-communication.

What exactly are antags supposed to do, then? Both of these seem like fairly reasonable roleplaying scenarios, which are free to develop in a multitude of interesting ways.

I feel like saying antags can't kidnap crew or severely sabotage the station heavily limits the amount of actions available to them.

 

Again, you misinterpret my meaning. I am not saying the Vox SHOULDN'T do this. I am saying how could the Vox DO all of this and still be ignorant of the fact that maybe the creature they have just speared through the chest that was screaming over the same frequency they were using ten minutes ago to harass the crew about the loss of their oxygen system, might have just attracted attention. You simply can't CHOSE to be ignorant and still remain knowledgeable of other situation opportunities.

[Frances]

No Frances it is not a crowded hallway, rather it was a completely open patch of station without any shielding slowly coming under fire from meteorites.

Yet you were still there as well, weren't you?

I'm not trying to be hostile, but I don't understand what you find at fault here. The Vox could've taken chances, or simply assumed that since the incident happened in space, help would not be coming that fast or that efficiently.

The way I see it, both of your characters made bad calls, ICly. Katana for heading out on a risky rescue mission (although it was honorable and I would've totally done the same thing to save my friend), and Sue's Vox (whatever may be her name) for coming back to retrieve the body.

There was nothing wrong with the calls from an OOC perspective. The call to save Stefan obviously made sense, and the one by Sue to recover the body was actually made with the intent to spark more conflict - to which I'd say conflict was indeed sparked, in a way that was perfectly admissible. OOCly, you don't in fact recover a random body so you can sit with it alone in the Vox Skipjack at round end while doing nothing, you do it in the hope that it'll rile up the crew and cause some trouble.

[nbielinski]

No Frances it is not a crowded hallway, rather it was a completely open patch of station without any shielding slowly coming under fire from meteorites.

Yet you were still there as well, weren't you?

There was nothing wrong with the calls from an OOC perspective. The call to save Stefan obviously made sense, and the one by Sue to recover the body was actually made with the intent to spark more conflict - to which I'd say conflict was indeed sparked, in a way that was perfectly admissible. OOCly, you don't in fact recover a random body so you can sit with it alone in the Vox Skipjack at round end while doing nothing, you do it in the hope that it'll rile up the crew and cause some trouble.

 

Frances I for one love this debate, but I think you're missing one integral part here. Stefan was NAILED TO A WALL. So as the explosions rained all he could do was scream and cry for help as a few more bolts were jammed into his body. While on the other hand the vox could have run off asap.

None the less, as you stated there is indeed no reason to pluck a dead body from the mouths of rats so you can ogle it like a psychopath. And in doing so we come around and hit my argument straight on the head. The vox was not coming back to retrieve my body, as was originally stated by your side of the argument, but it was in fact coming back to hopefully pick off more crew. And that is where my issues stems with this. If it was indeed just an effort to come back and pick off crew members. Well that is just attacking to attack, no real reason besides some violence fueled spike throwing match off. Then, well let me explain something, the purpose of any antagonist effort, whether it be kidnapping an atmospheric tech to flood the station. Or killing the chef in the gibber to take their place. Or even to beat to death an assistant just to pin it on someone else. Is all in the effort of some goal of the antagonist.

What occurred today was not an example of that. What occurred next to the singularity was an act of death to cause death, murder to promote more murder. And that, is what might simply be called, ganking. For lack of a better word of course. And ganking, as is known throughout the server is something you, I, Sue, Sierra, anyone really, disagrees with as it pulls away from someones chance to RP and promote "good rp" for lack of a better term.

In short, unless you're deathsquad, to kill for the simple fact that you might be able to kill again, is a showing of poor ability to RP and a poor ability to play as an antagonist.

Just on a side note, as I am unsure and have been getting a varied number of reportings. I would like to ask the admin team inspect the claim that the killing of the IPC was after the rounds near ending was called. And the possibility that it could be considered round grief. Again, not saying that it was round grief. Just trying to clear it up.

--End of Nibbles Replies 4/14/15. Gotta go get Novocaine shoved into my jaw tomorrow so I will be resting now. Goodnight to all involved. I will reply as soon as possible tomorrow. Thank you. Goodnight.-

[Frances]

No, no, no, this is wrong. The intent was not to kill people, but to provoke conflict. That could be anything, from the crew realizing that Stefan's body had been taken by the Vox, or trying to retrieve it, or to people actually finding the Vox and having a fight (which is what happened).

But you cannot say the intent was to "pick off crew". We're looking at this from an OOC perspective, and while one of the possibilities of this was that a fight would happen (again, nothing wrong with that, antagonists are sort of about fighting, among other things), I think that the action posed here was complex enough that we can't dismiss it as an antag simply looking for more people to kill.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

The Vox were curbstomped by security all round, and got a poopoo end of the stick. Despite Houssam basically staging a coup after some serious misgivings with the security department and releasing the Vox, the one controlled by Sue came back for vengeance. That's how I thought it was going about, so I wasn't OOC'ly faulting her for it, despite not really knowing Vox to be the type to make blood feuds.

[SierraKomodo]

So uh.. I think things might have gotten a bit derailed from what I think the main issue should have been so.. I'll just repost this:

 

It's not that I was killed, it's that it was immediately shoot. And shoot repeatedly, even after I was disarmed and pinned to the wall. One shot to pin and disarm me would have been fine. Locking onto me instead of shooting would have been fine. Both of those create an oppurtunity for some form of RP, instead of just unloading into me until I'm dead.

If the scene started out that way, and still ended up with me dead because Katana refused to cooperate, then that would have been fine. But as it stands, there was no chance for anything at all beyond two or three radio messages calling for help

[Jamini]

A few quick mechanics notes:

1. Vox dartguns do not, by default, carry sopos. They are medical tools which require that the user click on them to activate a particular reagent to mix. Sue did infact hit at least me, once, with a dart. It was likely empty and therefore useless.

2. You cannot use the hostage mechanic with any Vox weapons.

Quick Rundown of the incident, as I saw it:

0. The Vox had, after attempting to steal from and harass mining (including breaking their airlock and stealing drill bits) mostly gotten captured. Except one. Sue was placed into this Vox or was it from the start. Engineering, as a whole, hadn't been involved in the round much and were gearing up to go home as the shuttle had been called.

1. The Remaining Vox player taunted, over a stolen headset, the station. Stating it had sabotaged atmospherics. In response engineering suited up and headed out to fix the breach before it could be an issue.

2. Nasir arrived first on the scene, surveyed the damage, stated that the damage was minor (and that the Vox was stupid, since it hadn't even properly vented the tank) and fixed it. Oliver arrived shortly after.

3. The Vox rounded the corner and shot two darts into Nasir. One of which bypassed his hardsuit and did jack squat due to being used improperly.

4. Oliver, who was armed, rushed at the Vox with a weapon. In response he was hit with a spike trower. The spike embedded, causing him to bleed.

5. Both Oliver and the Vox left Nasir's sight. Nasir asked Oliver to return, they did not, and then followed to pull them back in.

6. Oliver Cornered the Vox between virology and xenobiology, where the Vox had taken the stolen air canister (which was lulzy). A brief scuffled happened, and the Vox left starboard while both engineers moved port.

6.a. At this point, the Vox could have fled. And probably should have, as according to their lore they are

 

While somewhat cunning and deceitful, most primalis are generally regarded as rather stupid and cowardly.

 

7. A collision event occurred.

8. Nasir and Oliver were seperated. Nasir found himself attacked by a slime which he had to wrestle off.

9. Nasir and Oliver met up by the engineering airlock, where the Vox returned and proceeded to equip two spike throwers. Oliver chased it behind the oxygen and nitrogen tank, while Nasir went to flank.

10. Nasir stunned the vox as it tried to pass the mix tank, then misstepped off of the tank before he could tie the vox down.

11. Oliver attempted to remove the Vox's internals while it was stunned. (Dumb)

12. The Vox stood up, jumped aft.

12.a. This was a second chance for the Vox to safely flee without repercussions.

13. Nasir and Oliver made a move to return to engineering, as they both needed medical treatment.

14. The Vox once again returned, dualweilding alien throwers again. Another scuffle broke out, this one launching Nasir away from the station and pinning Oliver to a wall and evidently killing him.

14.a. This was a third chance for the Vox, who had just been in a fight with multiple people, to leave.

15. Katana and another arrived on the scene, and were immediately bolted to the wall by the Vox, who had waited there for several minutes.

At no point during any exchange did the Vox attempt any emotes or talk. The entirety of it's interaction had been to shoot at any station staff that came near it. Not only that, but according to Sierra Katana was shot multiple times while bolted to the wall. The vox had many, many chances to flee. Instead it continually returned and attempted to use solely lethal weapons, multiple weapons that were stored in its pack. (At least three).

This, to me, does not seem in the least to be an attempt to take hostages (which, considering a transfer was happening, is a flimsy as hell excuse. Who would you trade them with?), nor an attempt to provoke meaningful conflict. It seems, quite frankly, to be an opportunity taken to "grab guns and shoot people". While Oliver and I did indeed deserve to get shot for chasing off the Vox from atmospherics, I do not believe for a second that there was any intent but to shoot the crew on Sue's part. Especially as a transfer shuttle was enroute. The fact that the Vox came back for more fighting three times is a very, very, clear indication of that.

Now, weather "grabbing guns and shooting people" is acceptable or not due to the situation... that is really not my call to make.

[Susan]

It's not that I was killed, it's that it was immediately shoot. And shoot repeatedly, even after I was disarmed and pinned to the wall. One shot to pin and disarm me would have been fine. Locking onto me instead of shooting would have been fine. Both of those create an oppurtunity for some form of RP, instead of just unloading into me until I'm dead.

If the scene started out that way, and still ended up with me dead because Katana refused to cooperate, then that would have been fine. But as it stands, there was no chance for anything at all beyond two or three radio messages calling for help

 

At no point did you ever drop the crossbow, and if you did I didn't see it. The only time I did see it on the ground was when you were dead and lying in space. The entire reason I was forced to keep shooting was because you still had the weapon in your hand and I saw it there.

Nibbles posted an image on the first page. There we can see Katana pinned to the wall, and no crossbow anywhere on the ground. Therefore, the only place it could be is still in Katana's hands.

 

http://postimg.org/image/koszxbnkr/

 

Also, @ Jamini: two types of dart guns, one with sopo, cryptobiolin, and impedrezene. The other is the medical one. I had the sleepgun, and obviously it didn't work. And I never had any gun outside of a crossbow until after you stungloved me. That's when I dropped it and Katana stole it apparently.

I cannot fathom why anyone is upset. I engaged engineering first with non-lethal weapons that didn't work. Okay. Engineering retaliates. This is also okay I guess though being ramboed with crowbars and stungloves even after shooting someone is apparently in line with the horror stories from Vox in other rounds. You chased after a heavily armed birdman with nothing but simple tools, ignoring the gigantic harpoon sticking out of your arm and that your suit was bleeding atmospherics into space. You literally were going to fight me to the death, why would I think anything other than force would work? It's easy to say that 'I didn't emote or speak' - I had hoped the sleepythings would knock you out so I /could/, but they didn't. And you can't do any of that in the middle of a fight.

I was going to when I came back the second time, but Oliver immediately tried to start running towards me as I rounded the corner so I couldn't do anything. You'd jut stungloved the Vox, why would he let you guys get in close again? I was attacked immediately the second time - which I am okay with - but it's absurd to go 'y dint u rp' when you literally didn't give me a chance. I am not faulting you guys for attacking me, but you blocked me from emoting or speaking by immediately trying to jump me, so I'm not quite sure what you wanted me to do there.

In essence: Oliver was shot for being a threat. Katana was shot for being a threat. And they both were. So... I dunno.

[Jamini]

Nibbles posted an image on the first page. There we can see Katana pinned to the wall, and no crossbow anywhere on the ground. Therefore, the only place it could be is still in Katana's hands.

http://postimg.org/image/koszxbnkr/

 

Crossbows have an inhand sprite. Katana has no crossbow in that picture.

 

Also, @ Jamini: two types of dart guns, one with sopo, cryptobiolin, and impedrezene. The other is the medical one. I had the sleepgun, and obviously it didn't work. And I never had any gun outside of a crossbow until after you stungloved me. That's when I dropped it and Katana stole it apparently.

 

Then you didn't activate the sopos. You need to actively toggle on the chems. I can guarantee that you hit me with a dart successfully. I saw the "You feel a tiny prick" message.

 

It's easy to say that 'I didn't emote or speak' - I had hoped the sleepythings would knock you out so I /could/, but they didn't. And you can't do any of that in the middle of a fight.

 

You could have spoken without shooting the sleepythings. Shooting first with a knockdown weapon is essentially a fight. As soon as you shot, you basically said in an unspoken manner that you weren't interested in talking. Had you had a weapon that could take hostages, taking hostages is also essentially resolving yourself to a fight.

 

I was going to when I came back the second time, but Oliver immediately tried to start running towards me as I rounded the corner so I couldn't do anything. You'd jut stungloved the Vox, why would he let you guys get in close again? I was attacked immediately the second time - which I am okay with - but it's absurd to go 'y dint u rp' when you literally didn't give me a chance. I am not faulting you guys for attacking me, but you blocked me from emoting or speaking by immediately trying to jump me, so I'm not quite sure what you wanted me to do there.

You had a chance to leave when I dragged Oliver away the first time and the meteors came. You had a radio as well for communication. You had a second chance to leave after getting stungloved as you drifted aft. You had a third chance to leave after killing Oliver. I don't fault you for starting a fight, that's what antagonists do, but it's concerning that your method was essentially "shoot to capture first." Once you fire a weapon, you need to expect that people are going to retaliate. I will point out that this is a philosophy you yourself practice in security virtually every round.

[Susan]

I did expect you to retaliate, that's not what I'm faulting. I think how you and Oliver responded is a-ok.

But neither of you said really much of anything, either. I don't see an issue with that. We got into a fight, went back and forth, and it ended up with Oliver pinned. In my opinion, I don't really think you, or Nibbles did anything wrong, but I don't think I did either, outside of killing Oliver because I was totally unused to Vox weapons. I just want to state again it was my first time playing Vox. I'd never used any of their weapons before, and had no idea how potent they were. I wasn't outright trying to kill Oliver. I shot him a few times to pin him to the wall because he was a threat.

Same thing with Katana. Me and the other Vox wanted her for scrap, and I thought IPCs were hardier and could take a few bolts. Lo and behond the space suit tears killed her.

 

Nibbles posted an image on the first page. There we can see Katana pinned to the wall, and no crossbow anywhere on the ground. Therefore, the only place it could be is still in Katana's hands.

http://postimg.org/image/koszxbnkr/

 

Oliver's body is covering said sprite and Katana's lower half, if you'll notice.

[Baka]

Hi, I was the one that handled the ahelp at the end.

The complaint that I have was that it happened near the end. I check the attack logs. Unfortunately, for some weird reason, you guys getting pinned to the wall is not an attack log, but from what I did see there was altercations breaking out between engineering and the vox in question. There was stun gloves, dart shots, crow-barring, and things had escalated from what I saw. An innocent was caught in the crossfire over the vox's fear of retaliation.

I talked to Sue and Sierra on the matter, getting both sides. I had decided that there was a tussle due to engineers fighting back. Seeing that the round was over, and that it was delayed, I at the time ruled it to be an escalation build up due to the facts I had then from both people.

Things could had gone more smoothly, but after a meteor shower, and tensions were at a high because of security issues in security, this has happened and we're all here.

Now, what should the outcome be since this was brought up to light? How do you all want this to be resolved?

[Jamini]

I'm honestly thinking that a clarification on if such behavior as Vox is acceptable, or not, would be sufficient. Clearly Sue and Sierra/Nibbles have (and myself, but my opinion isn't really relevant to this complaint as I do not feel particularly strongly one way or another) different ideas on what is, and isn't acceptable for a Vox player to do in a situation like this.

I'd also think everyone taking into account the escalation here, and making efforts to avoid escalating in the future, may be wise. Or, if we want escalation, no action at all.

I don't really feel that either party deserves more than a quick discussion/talking too.

[Susan]

I'm inclined to agree with Jamini. I remember being told that here there is no Vox Inviolate, so I'm not really sure what Vox should be doing, if our wiki page for them is even up to date, and so on.

[Valkrae]

Considering the massive 'FUN' fest this was as playing Vox, Sue was just trying to make the round exciting. As out of the five or six Vox that ended up spawned in as Vox, only around 2 of us even make it to the end of the round logged in. Three of us were there from around the middle of the round, and we barely made it long enough, and it ended up with me dying due to my N2 tank running out, and the other dying trying to rescue myself and Sue.

Sue was the last Vox alive. It does make sense that a vox would go mad after losing one of their crew.

[Baka]

So there is no clear thing set in stone how Vox should be played, as I tend to agree, since people have asked this question before. Are Vox just turkey version of raiders that are cowards, or are they more ballsy? I know bay's lore that they are meant to disarm, take cover, rather than to get into conflict unless it is absolutely needed, but here, there was never a settled agreement what Vox are suppose to do. (As far as I am aware.)

We should discuss this on a different channel, in which direction vox should behave when it comes to confrontation. As for now though, if anyone else has more input on this, please do speak.

[Frances]

We should discuss this on a different channel, in which direction vox should behave when it comes to confrontation. As for now though, if anyone else has more input on this, please do speak.

I'd advise making the thread now or soon, in this case, before the issue gets forgotten.

I'd do it myself but I honestly can't think of a good opening post right now.