Feedback thread for Greimorian queen rework.

[Kintsugi]

 

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Alright so minor speech here: I know that the queen is definitely too strong and certain issues need to be fixed. I promise that it's not going to stay like this. This round was very important for playtesting purposes - and I just wanted to thank everyone who stuck around! If you have any comments or concerns, please DM me. Please also take the time to vote here: https://strawpoll.com/BJnX8XMOxnv - and please try to be objective. Think about the value of this as a concept as opposed to how it functioned this round. I also wanted to thank everyone who was staff this round, anyone who played as a greimorian. Also please keep in mind that the greimorian queen isn't a mob I added, merely updated, and things like the ceiling crawl ability were NOT added by me. Anyway, I hope you had fun, in spite of the queen's flaws at the moment.

https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/18235

[Fyni]

Hello! I was the AI for the round with the queen/colossol greimorian.

First, we ultimately defeated it when I decided enough was enough, and started using fire alarms to box it in. I don't think anyone is going to complain about me doing this after about 20/30 minutes, given how mobile and invincible it felt. However, if it it is nerfed it needs a way to get through emergency shutters quick.

Second, the ceiling walk allowed it free retreats with no risk, or even to lurk somewhere. It needs a time limit, and a cooldown, or it just needs removed, it makes no sense people can't shoot a bug if it's on the ceiling.

Third, I think it needs a few guidelines when playing. Players should not spread breach just because it benefits them. Maybe a bit more "animalistic". Unless the intent is it's smart.

Finally it needs a resprite, since Aurora has moved away from space spiders it's not suitable. Also a dead sprite

I love the concept of a big evil monster occationally, but it was just a bit too tought. I think less health, but with fast regen could work? Make it so three or more security officers with laser rifles or burst rifles can take it down if they're smart, but one by themselves will struggle with?

[Noble Row]

Heya, I like it! I just wanted to note down a couple things to look at for adjustments:

 

The Colossal probably shouldn't be able to phase through people while on the ground.

Might be too much health for the colossal when they can hop on to the ceiling and become invincible. Or the regen is a bit too much for them eating people. Either way I'm not too fussed since this is reliant on admins ferrying the colossal over to the Horizon, or else be trapped on the Asteroid.

The Colossal probably shouldn't be able to go through girders due to its size.

The Grems can speak Basic, probably due to a default thing they're granted.

Also apparently there's some issues with the Colossal's sprite, but I personally don't know anything beyond the dead sprite not changing. If you want I can take the sprite and flip it upside down and add a little bit of blood effects to it as a quick patch job stand-in.

 

Other than that I think it's a fun little idea. I know you have a lot of this noted down already, but I figured it'd be easy to look back on while looking through code. Thank you for contributing it!

[Alaunus_Lux]

I spawned as a Servant and had a good time. A few things I would wish for servants:

 

• Some kind of low light vision, unless their blindness is intentional (the starting base is pretty dark)
• A GPS-Compass-like HUD Element to point to the queen, hopefully toggleable.
• Friendly fire turned off or togglable or something, or ignored when clicking far away. Kept attacking friend bugs when just trying to turn direction, altho skill issue mostly

I do want to address the breaching thing. I was with the queen and another bug in maints, and the Queen went onto the ceiling and disappeared. It was too dark for us to see their shadow, so we couldn't follow. We were cornered in maint by an exosuit and multiple armed people, so we fled. The only way we could do that was through a window to space. It was not for tactical advantage at all. Neither of us flanked or anything, we were trying to be safe and find the queen. We had to break a window in investigations to get back in the ship, but then we were rushed from that side too, and had no where else to go. If we had the GPS to find the queen we could've been moving towards her, but we just had to hang out outside because the long hallway was just a death sentence for us vs marines. 

If the intentions are for the bugs to be played dumb and attack anything they see, then that's something. But we weren't playing them as tactical geniuses and depriving the 'food' of oxygen. We were just self preserving and trying to find our queen.

Edited January 23 by Alaunus_Lux

[Susan]

As the Greimorian queen of that round,

• Feeding was broken (but you know this)
• Eggs are broken (to be fixed)
• I tried not to open any breaches and shut doors to the breaches I walked into, save for the fire Tokash caused. (People should be told not to vent the ship, it's just not fun, as a guideline)
• Clicking on people to bite them was really hard due to the strange size dimensions of the sprite.
• Mechs were invincible (it is joever)
• HP is 1000 with some mild regen.
• I could not slash APCs to disable power.

Crawling on ceiling does have a cooldown, and it's not a toggle. Once it is used, you commit to it. You cannot end it early. I think if you remove its ability to go through girders (but not, critically, window frames, tables, or whatnot) and enable ceiling crawl to go over obstacles (like barricades and grilles), it would be balanced. There's a stress on locking down and bottlenecking the queen, catching her after she's used her escape ability. The cooldown is at least... four, five minutes, I think? It was pretty long.

Also prevent it from walking over people/mechs.

[Girdio]

Ran around as an investigator during the round, so I wasn't directly on the frontlines fighting, but also wasn't really hunkered down hiding somewhere.

 

I agree with most of what Fyni said, it was definitely fun but ended up being perhaps a little overly difficult (understandable, it was the first time it got ran). Had there not been two mechs chasing the spider down, there was absolutely no way it would have gotten killed.

There definitely should be a little more "animalistic" nature imposed on it in the future for other players. As someone called on ICly, it was a little weird that the Queen would know to keep attacking the medbay. Obviously, it's a ship wide threat but it felt a little much at times.

It makes me think of the geists that would occasionally pop up during the last Tajara arc. Very strong and devastating, but not strong enough to possibly wipe the entire crew.

 

Definitely unique and interesting though! Looking forward to seeing how it ends up getting utilized in the future.

[Alaunus_Lux]

I could see the medbay stuff being RP'd with the smell of blood and injury or something. Though, if we're giving GPS or sensing abilities, maybe it could point towards food too? Maybe too OP.

Also, as a servant, it would be nice to get a message when the queen dies so we can just go wild and attack and die.

[Evandorf]

Most issues have been touched on already but I feel like this should be more than just a big tanky monster. I personally would prefer the spiders’ playstyle to focus around a nest and be less mobile and I had a few thoughts on how you could make them more dangerous but not necessarily more lethal which mostly focuses on the servants.

- Give the servants a ranged attack on cooldown similar to a bolas spider. It shoots a glob of web and if it hits it applies leg cuffs to the victim, slowing them down.

- I’m not sure what sort of venom the servants currently use but I would mix in soporific/sedative to allow for more live captures. 
 

- I did come across some silly moments where the spiders and crew were playing peek-a-boo with the doors. I think it’s fine for the spiders to break them open but shutting them tactically in combat is a bit much. If you want to block off an area I would rather they be able to make web walls, similar to biomass.

I also don’t have a problem with spiders being smart enough to target med or even breaching to escape danger but making the ship unlivable is against standard antag rules and just not fun so it would just need to be ahelped at the time. 

[Acetrea]

I liked the gameplay and it added a lot for me, as medical, to do!

One thing I noticed was that they could all understand basic. When an evacuation was called and Captain/HoS said to get on the Intrepid, the Queen and other bugs immediately waltzed in up there. (It felt a bit power-gamey).

The constantly attacking medbay did feel like power gaming as well, like trying to make sure their victims stay dead by going to where they all are, halting all Medical functions, and killing them while they can't walk or are completely defenseless/asleep on the OR table. I don't think "sniffing out food" would be a good implement because all the food is going to be in Medbay. There would be no way to fix people up with Medbay swarmed 24/7, so once all four officers break their leg or their hand from 1-3 hits by a Greimorian, then that's it. Medical in disarray gimps everyone on the ship in 20 minutes.

[Susan]

The RD teleported me (as the Queen) to the Intrepid using a bluespace portal. I was not paying attention to chat, but can confirm not only could we understand TCB, but could speak it. Obviously something that needs to change.