Dedicated Shuttle to Konyang

[NM_]

If this is something already addressed, I'll be happy to leave it be.

The fact there isn't a more streamlined system in place to easily transport crew to Point Verdant is disappointing. The expectation can't fall on BCs to pilot the Intrepid or any of the other shuttles consistently as a band-aid for a proper system, round after round, day by day. It's an unwieldy, time-consuming process that I don't expect players to sacrifice their own time or roleplay to do regularly. While the sample size for the rounds after the event are small, I don't recall an instance where the Horizon touched down for anything more than a handful of people at most.

Point Verdant is deprived of any interaction or engagement aside from the other ghost roles available. For what is a beautifully, detailed, and wonderful map to explore, it will go to waste unless a better means of transportation is in place. I'd like to raise this earlier before the interest fades entirely, an inevitable consequence as time goes on in the arc. It's a fantastic map and I would hate to see it neglected due to the current barrier of entry. The synth-team has put together nothing short of a fantastic arc so far and I can't express my gratitude enough to be fortunate enough to play in it. I want as many people as possible to similarly enjoy the city.

Can we implement a better process for this? An automated one? Please discuss, I'd love to know what can be done.

As a side note - the population isn't quite large enough to sustain both the countryside and PV as well. I'd recommend having one or the other available in a given round. There simply isn't enough players to cast a wider net for interaction across the planet.

 

Edited February 25 by NM_
minor spelling corrections

[CourierBravo]

I'm very much down for this. I'm sure you could hijack the system used for merchant shuttles. Just point to point. Re-use the Canary shuttle pad, maybe?

[Granodd]

I've seen this similar concept on other servers, mostly for the purposes of ferrying miners to an off-station map to do their work, though think it could very easily work for Aurora, too.

I wouldn't see it as anything that's too immersion breaking either. The way I could see this set up is to give the Horizon an autopiloted shuttle in one of its hangar bays or docking arms that's set to only ferry to and from a specified POI depending on where the Horizon currently is. It would be a fairly proactive feature too in the event the Horizon is docked around other interesting places that anything along the lines like Point Verdant, like Adhomai was from what I recall.

The autopiloted nature of it means that anyone could feasibly interact with a console at the landing site or on the Horizon should they have a Horizon ID to bring the thing back and forth.

The only feasible problem I could see with it is "fuel costs", though that's assuming it's built like an actual shuttle and not like the old style of shuttles that many of the antag ships are.

Edit: The other issue that could come of this though is crew bringing non-crew onto the ship who may not be authorized to be there. But that's more of an IC issue than an OOC one.

Edited February 25 by Granodd
forgot something

[White Void]

I fear that the Konyang arc might end and we leave the system and we barely got to enjoy the planet due to the problems mentioned.

 

Something to take the crew back and forth would be appreciated, i know the automated ferry PR was shot down but there has to be something agreeable to make up for it.

[Fluffy]

38 minutes ago, NM_ said:

Can we implement a better process for this? An automated one?

If it is a suggestion for an automated shuttle, as per https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/18226 which implemented this, the maintainers deliberation was that [sic]:

Quote

[...] We don't want a shuttle that everyone can pilot (even if it's just a ferry) and this poses gameplay problems - anyone could take it, fly down, and evade security while also being in ship range still.

[NM_]

1 minute ago, Fluffy said:

If it is a suggestion for an automated shuttle, as per https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/18226 which implemented this, the maintainers deliberation was that [sic]:

 

I can understand the reasoning, albeit it coming at the complete detriment of being able to consistently experience the city and the hard work that went into it. It doesn't have to solely be something automated, but I'd like to discuss an improvement over the reliance on BCs to have it take time out of their round. There's also the understanding there won't always be one available.

[Fluffy]

Maybe the time to un-nerf telescience so they can target nearby visitable planets and whatnot for portals has come? Because as it stands right now, it seems effectively completely useless

[Shimmer]

A few issues come to mind with this suggestion that I feel need to be addressed.

 

The primary role of BCs is, and always will be, flight. That is the whole purpose of the role, I as a player, speaking for myself, enjoy this aspect of BC a lot and Konyang as a sector not offering much opportunity to fly, given the low amount of points of interest, lack of randomized points of interest meaning you see the same names frequently etc etc etc already means a HEAVILY diminished gameplay opportunity for bridgecrew as is. To automate one of the few functions that are as of now their one and only niche feels... Odd?

I would not mind an automated shuttle with the caveat that it is only operable when there are no bridge crew aboard, or if there is one, that they can somehow unlock it if the logged BC is not the type to enjoy ferrying but rather other aspects of the role.

 

There is a further issue, and that is- if this shuttle is automated- how is it used, exactly? Does it use the same system as the merchant shuttle, and the deprecated transit shuttle, as well as the mercenary shuttle? It goes from point A, solely, to point B, solely, when an input is given. The issue arises that you can in theory be on the other side of the system and still be able to access Konyang in seconds, which is somewhat immersion breaking, but oh well, can be suspended for the sake of disbelief...

 

...and then there is the aforementioned point about people using it as an advanced maintenance tunnel to evade security. How is that going to be rectified?

[CourierBravo]

Personally, as a BC, I've found a lot of success last round by dropping crew off and saying "alright, I'll be back in an hour. have fun kids." having a bus of a shuttle to do that would be kinda awesome. Maybe the middle ground here is. actually hold on lemme open strong rq.

 

[Granodd]

2 minutes ago, Fluffy said:

[...] We don't want a shuttle that everyone can pilot (even if it's just a ferry) and this poses gameplay problems - anyone could take it, fly down, and evade security while also being in ship range still.

Making the shuttle system a bit more robust than having it be a very simple "push button and go" could alleviate those issues. Things that come to mind, but would obviously need coding, and likely not anything in time to benefit Konyang (RIP) are:
• The ability to ground the shuttle remotely via the Command and Communications program by OM/XO/Captain level decision.
• Alert level automatically locking down the shuttle's ability to ferry.
• Having a Hoirzon level ID (just something to show you are actually Horizon crew and not someone else) in order to access the ferry system.
• Having to take out a ticket, or sign a digital ledger with said ID to log who is taking the Ferry and when (This one I'm less solid on)
• The console to control the autopilot is both in and out of the ferry shuttle, allowing for crew shipside to recall the ship and vice versa on a short cooldown to prevent things like shuttle juggling.

Having to rely on BC to actually be playing in order to see the city which I know had months of work put into it feels like some people will have missed opportunity. Though it's hard to say for how much longer we'll be on Konyang.

[CourierBravo]

This is kinda what I have in mind. Roughly canary shaped and in footprint, so we can just use canary specific stuff already in use.

[greenjoe]

59 minutes ago, Granodd said:

Making the shuttle system a bit more robust than having it be a very simple "push button and go" could alleviate those issues. Things that come to mind, but would obviously need coding, and likely not anything in time to benefit Konyang (RIP) are:
• The ability to ground the shuttle remotely via the Command and Communications program by OM/XO/Captain level decision.
• Alert level automatically locking down the shuttle's ability to ferry.
• Having a Hoirzon level ID (just something to show you are actually Horizon crew and not someone else) in order to access the ferry system.
• Having to take out a ticket, or sign a digital ledger with said ID to log who is taking the Ferry and when (This one I'm less solid on)
• The console to control the autopilot is both in and out of the ferry shuttle, allowing for crew shipside to recall the ship and vice versa on a short cooldown to prevent things like shuttle juggling.

Having to rely on BC to actually be playing in order to see the city which I know had months of work put into it feels like some people will have missed opportunity. Though it's hard to say for how much longer we'll be on Konyang.

I was thinking similar ideas for the ferry to make it less able to be used as an easy escape for antags
perhaps also remote control on the bridge so control can be overridden from there
maybe also a slowed down travel time so if antag is known to have just taken off on it they're now stuck traveling on it and sec or whatever can teleport on, or the horizon can lock on and shoot it. (as it would be stuck in place on the overmap and unable to evade any incoming fire)

[N8-Toe]

yeah I think this will undercut the bridge crew having an automated ferry.

 

if we want another shuttle, why not add one thats on Point verdant that they can fly up to take passengers. but adding an automated shuttle cuts into the Bridge crew's role, as well opens the box to the automating of other shuttles.

[Granodd]

18 minutes ago, N8-Toe said:

if we want another shuttle, why not add one thats on Point verdant that they can fly up to take passengers

Could be a way to remedy it somewhat, but would require there be ghost roles with piloting knowledge to avoid it seeming like every ghost role knows how to pilot.

19 minutes ago, N8-Toe said:

but adding an automated shuttle cuts into the Bridge crew's role, as well opens the box to the automating of other shuttles.

This however is a slippery slope, and if anything has been shown, it's that shuttles that only go from A -> B are old and being phased out slowly rather than the other way around. The automated system was only proposed because like mentioned above, not every character is going to have piloting knowledge which is why a very rudimentary autopilot for ferrying to planet surfaces was proposed.

[Carver]

Have it lock down on Blue or Red and the yakkety sax problem is rectified. Konyang is filled with Police Officers and territorial gangs, I have sincere doubts an overly talkative traitor would last long at all down there - and if he’s not overly talkative and just slips away, then whatever, no harm done.

I don’t really buy the argument that this takes away from BCs when I feel as though BCs are going to get tired of being a taxi service well within a week - just as people got tired of the every round IPC hunting countryside expeditions. I shouldn’t be dependent on a role that isn’t always present being willing to taxi me when I join 40 minutes in a round and oh look they went down and are enjoying themselves already. May as well not join the round then, everyone’s down there and I’m stuck up on the empty ship!

For additional context, there was a round last night where there were 12 active Konyang ghost role players - and 5 people on the ship, none of whom are OOCly allowed to pilot. I actively chose to not play despite wanting to play the round because there was no realistic possibility of being able to interact with 2/3 of the active players. This sort of thing should be fixed immediately if it’s hoped that people should be allowed to interact with and enjoy the new map.

Edited February 26 by Carver
Additional context

[EJJ]

4 hours ago, Bejewledpot said:

This is kinda what I have in mind. Roughly canary shaped and in footprint, so we can just use canary specific stuff already in use.

This is fine but what happened to the old Intrepid layout more in the vein of the old transfer shuttles where you could fit a dozen people on it and actually use it as a bus for people. Modern Intrepid seems like... somewhere between 7 and 9 people at most? If everyone doesn't have boots or you bring more chairs on?

[OolongCow]

On 25/02/2024 at 20:53, Carver said:

Have it lock down on Blue or Red and the yakkety sax problem is rectified. Konyang is filled with Police Officers and territorial gangs, I have sincere doubts an overly talkative traitor would last long at all down there - and if he’s not overly talkative and just slips away, then whatever, no harm done.

I don’t really buy the argument that this takes away from BCs when I feel as though BCs are going to get tired of being a taxi service well within a week - just as people got tired of the every round IPC hunting countryside expeditions. I shouldn’t be dependent on a role that isn’t always present being willing to taxi me when I join 40 minutes in a round and oh look they went down and are enjoying themselves already. May as well not join the round then, everyone’s down there and I’m stuck up on the empty ship!

For additional context, there was a round last night where there were 12 active Konyang ghost role players - and 5 people on the ship, none of whom are OOCly allowed to pilot. I actively chose to not play despite wanting to play the round because there was no realistic possibility of being able to interact with 2/3 of the active players. This sort of thing should be fixed immediately if it’s hoped that people should be allowed to interact with and enjoy the new map.

Carver is 100% correct. PV presents a very alluring split to the playerbase that after the assumed first trip by a bridge crew early into the round, leads to the entire burden of "saving my round" falling on one role in a way that's boring and repetitive. I do have an idea, though:

Why not repurpose the choice in character setup between spawning in cryo or the residential lift to, for the time PV is enabled, let people spawn in the hotel when they latejoin? You could even put up a quick check to ensure it only works for off-duty/passenger and sends you to the lift otherwise.

Edited February 27 by OolongCow

[NM_]

1 hour ago, OolongCow said:

Carver is 100% correct. PV presents a very alluring split to the playerbase that after the assumed first trip by a bridge crew early into the round, leads to the entire burden of "saving my round" falling on one role in a way that's boring and repetitive. I do have an idea, though:

Why not repurpose the choice between spawning in cryo or the residential lift to, for the time PV is enabled, let people spawn in the hotel when they latejoin? You could even put up a quick check to ensure it only works for off-duty/passenger and sends you to the lift otherwise.

This is a fantastic idea and a solid compromise. It would save close to all of the headache associated with the A to B travel.

[Billy Mays]

2 hours ago, OolongCow said:

Carver is 100% correct. PV presents a very alluring split to the playerbase that after the assumed first trip by a bridge crew early into the round, leads to the entire burden of "saving my round" falling on one role in a way that's boring and repetitive. I do have an idea, though:

Why not repurpose the choice between spawning in cryo or the residential lift to, for the time PV is enabled, let people spawn in the hotel when they latejoin? You could even put up a quick check to ensure it only works for off-duty/passenger and sends you to the lift otherwise.

Honestly love this suggestion, and I think it's better then adding a dedicated ferry shuttle. 

[Aphelion]

9 hours ago, N8-Toe said:

yeah I think this will undercut the bridge crew having an automated ferry.

 

if we want another shuttle, why not add one thats on Point verdant that they can fly up to take passengers. but adding an automated shuttle cuts into the Bridge crew's role, as well opens the box to the automating of other shuttles.

I agree with this. Have an option for the surface to get people, but don't nullify bridge crew.

Some of the best rounds I've had as BC has been because of the increased relevancy of the role to gameplay. Adding a thing to remove work from BC to make it easier on other players would be like just starting the game with the engine already set up. Sure it's a repetitive task, but it's an enjoyable part of the job. The current gameplay loop for BC outside of this ferrying service is a paperwork simulator, and then the rare case of being required for ship to ship combat. The Ferrying is not repetitive, and you people who are whining should honestly just make a BC instead of trying to manufacture a game where BC are irrelevant again.

Or we should like, add automated doctors to heal people that are always present, maybe a security drone wandering the halls to catch baddies when there is no sec. Surely catching the baddie as sec is getting repetitive at this point, yeah?

TLDR: It's nice actually being involved in the gameplay...

 

Edit: I regret how heated I got in a bit of this, but it's frustrating to be having a good time, and finally being relevant as a role, and then immediately seeing a band of people wanting to make it less important to gameplay. 

Edited February 26 by Aphelion

[Nol4]

As a local deadpop/aussie hours player, a shuttle or surface spawn point would be a greatly appreciated addition. At my hours, shifts frequently don't vote for transfer and run 4-6 hours, bridge crew may or may not exist, and you may be dropping into a round that's been going for 2 hours and everyone is already off ship. It's also common for offship roles to fill up even while the ship is empty during these rounds, so this would help drive some more interaction during the quiet hours. Moreover, even if there is a BC, most of them time they're already occupied with something and would prefer not to be dragged away for 15-20 minutes of transit. The new map and content is awesome- it'd be great to be able to see it consistently.

Edited February 27 by Nol4