Complaint - Security team/Command Of Secret 3rd May.

[mirkoloio]

BYOND Key: Mirkoloio

Player Byond Key:TechnoKat. Vira De Santos(Ckey unknown). Bakagaijin. NursieKitty.

Staff involved: Ryfus ((Complaint currently being filed against them too.))

Reason for complaint:In this round I was Vampire as Stamos. I "ate" Luna Tsuki and Elizabeth Hawthorne. For the first one and half hour all went well and good. Then Security eventually found out. I was interrogated and tried to flee. Now, I was captured some minutes later and have been Straightjacketed, Muzzled, and blindfolded. At first, this might not sound too bad, seeing that I am a vamp and they saw what I can do. HOWEVER: I was in that situation for about an hour and was unable to do /anything/ within that time. Totally dissabling me wasn't enough so my eyes have been taken out additionally. To see such a behaviour accepted by both Security, Command AND medical is in my eyes inacceptable. And from an OOC Viepoint taking a player out of the round for more then ONE DAMN HOUR is excessive and not quite allowed afaik. And before you all start with "Uhhh, Killing people is taking em out of the round too.. bla bla bla". Dead people can be cloned or respawn. I can hardly respawn while bucklejacketed, eyes removed, Blindfolded and muzzled.

Approximate Date/Time: 3rd of May. Between 21 and 23:50 GMT+1| 9pm - 11:50PM GMT+1

Edit: Like the IDiot I am I wrote "ninja" as subject title. Changed

Edited May 4, 2015 by Guest

[Vittorio Giurifiglio]

This...Is to be fair, a fair point, I played a Security officer that round as a note. It is totally acceptable to be a tad salty about being taken out of the round for so long and unable to do anything, As is the point about cloning fair. In frankness, The Muzzeling was unecessary and just ended any RP.

[callum99877]

Vira is 1138 i believe. And i can see why your angry, but as an observer not involved, you had killed twice and tried to escape twice? they wont want to take chances. I will have to agree that the muzzle is over the top a little, it ends RP completely....

[Baka]

You killed two people that round, removing their blood completely from their body.

You hid a body of the janitor in a fuck off location in her janitor closet as an unknown set to just vitals, which after an hour of searching for her body, we had to do a process of elimination of who this person was by comparing suit sensors to the crew manifest and seeing who does and doesn't respond, with the addition of a thirty minutes tacked on because of CSI work.

You killed the other person, and they had to wait to be cloned and all that jazz.

You attacked people with bats in security, teleporting around, screaming and flashing people with your eyes. You were an obvious threat. I put you to sleep because you were using your powers against me, and were disappearing, and trying to get away from surgery. You were a pain in the ass to security, to medical, to command.

The muzzle, maybe a bit much. I didn't put it on you, though. But it wasn't like you were exactly docile too and that you didn't take people out of the round.

[Vittorio Giurifiglio]

I defiantly feel the Eye Removal was a bit much. Considering that is Super illegal and you know Vicious assault.

[Guest]

The muzzle was used because you were screeching people's eardrums out as well as shattering entire rooms full of glass. You did this twice.

Given how you were spamming that along with the rest of your powers, I was not going to take chances and get everyone else killed because I gave you more than an inch.

Despite all of this, I ordered you to be kept alive even though the rest of security was demanding your immediate execution.

The fact that you expected sec to go easy on you despite having blooddrained two people entirely because "muh hvy RP", is an absurd line of thought. You had your chance, you made a decision to resist detainment until we could finish the investigation. You were deemed a heavy security risk to the rest of the station and I was not about to let a murder suspect go free to do it again.

When I told you that you were going to be held in detention until the investigation was resolved, you screeched, destroying the windows as well as deafening several officers in the area who weren't even thinking of beating your skull in at the time.

And at which point, you spammed ethereal jaunt to flee to random locations. You then summoned bats, which gave two officers broken bones as well as murdering their organs. This is where I ordered you to be contained by any means necessary. You were shoved in a straightjacket and put into isolation.

You then attempted to jaunt out of your jacket. This is where I decided to keep you asleep and under by injecting sleep-toxin into your system. The CMO came by, picked you up, doped you up some more, and took you to surgery to get your bones fixed. During this point, you were spamming glare to attempt to stun the CMO who was trying to help fix you. The CMO kept you under, which I suggested earlier because I figured you would resist to and between your cell and medbay.

If you weren't fucking spamming bullshit excuses of abilities (Even after being detained and completely shut down by security) that make it very difficult to roleplay with and/or against, then I wouldn't have gone super-jacket-muzzle-blindfold-buckle powergame mode.

You made it very difficult for the handling security and medical personnel to deal with your antag shite in a sensible fashion.

You fought back against the very people who were very willing to roleplay the situation with you. You didn't stop, you just kept on going even after it was clear that you were pacified and shut down. It was a very irritating experience for everyone who was involved. You were committed to fighting us, and it's not at all surprising you're upset because you "lost."

[mirkoloio]

The point that I /spammed/ glare in Surgery is a lie. I used it /once/. They were performing surgery on me while /AWAKE/. Vampires feel pain, no? Pretty sure they do. As to the point of screeching. I too used that only once. In interrogation. I want to see your reaction when I put you into Solitary with not the slightest chance of escape. I've seen Vampires do way worse shit and get not nearly the same treatment as I this shift.

How often were people told to not go over the top with antags and give them some chance? Quite often.

[Guest]

I'm not going to bend my knee a few more degrees at Mister Antag because someone tells me that antags deserve more leeway.

Congratulations, you hid bodies in shitty, easy-to-find locations for security to find. You killed two people and sucked them completely dry of their blood. The murders were very clearly premeditated. You were given one chance to accept cuffs and comply. You resisted in a grossly unnecessary manner. You led security on a manhunt. You severely harmed/nearly killed an officer or two. You were taken down, measures were drawn to pacify you and keep you pacified. Nobody wanted to take any risks around you because we knew you were willing to fight to and from your holding cell to the death. Security would be failing to do its job if it didn't put its absolute best foot forward in stopping you.

And despite all of this utter shit you put security and medical through, you were spared.

You provided sufficient enough roleplay and conflict up until the point where you were truly neutralized and stopped. The situation was brought under control and all was right in the world. Not one person complained about your pacification except for you.

Security did it's job, and then some, by pacifying you AND keeping you alive in the process, by handing you off to medical when it was necessary.

The situation developed to a climax, and then came to a conclusion. As a result, the antag was stopped. It wasn't about any greentext you're going to attempt to mention to try to dismiss my argument, it was about keeping to the set standards security is held to. Uphold the rules, ensure station and personnel security, talkstuncuffquestionimprison.

It's not about winning, it's about providing for a fun experience for the majority, not for everyone. It is impossible to please everyone.

[mirkoloio]

I would have had no proplem at all if you killed me. None at all. Instead you chose to keep me dissabled for an hour. It's simply not the way you're supposed to do it. As I said, I was unable to respawn/be cloned while that time. However, the people I killed were perfectly able to respawn after they were taken down. And if they know how, they even could have respawned /immediately/ after their death without admin help.

This is something an alive player in the round, an antag, can't resort to. I can't just respawn out of being removed from the round due to total dissabling.

[Guest]

I don't kill registered crew. Vampire, changeling, traitor or not. It makes no sense to do that, because the antag is still crew.

The option was still there to keep you alive, as Central had advised. So I kept you alive.

I'd be breaking my own MO by going around killing antagonists because that's their personal preference.

And really, no one would look at you less for ghosting while straightjacketed.

[Frances]

I also can't see the problem. You used supernatural powers to engage the crew in a very hostile manner, and the crew did their best to restrain you in a manner that was both fair and realistic.

People have a responsibility to keep other players in the round to an extent. This extent ends when actions required to keep you into the round (refusing to restrain appropriately a dangerous prisoner) would become outright retarded.

When antagging, you get into action, and sometimes, the action, well... ends. Unless you remain undiscovered/uncaptured, at some point, you'll get caught, and either get incarcerated (with good or less good chances to escape), or get killed. And your ability to escape isn't something that should rest on the shoulders of other players - you are responsible for it through your own planning. For example, an antag leaving a spacesuit outside of perma has a guaranteed escape, while an unprepared antag in perma is completely boned unless someone else busts them out. I honestly see this situation as something very similar to that: you had your chances to escape, and you worked yourself into a situation where you were no longer able to act by using your powers at the crew repeatedly and getting caught/taken down.

And it's not terrible. People shouldn't let you escape, you should be capable of tricking/foiling them through your own feats. You won't always succeed, and that's fine. Antags aren't always about greentexting/escaping, and some antags won't see roundend.

 

I was unable to respawn/be cloned while that time.

You know, as an antag, if you get into a situation where you're convinced you can't escape (or don't want to bother to), and foresee little to no coming roleplay, it's perfectly acceptable to ghost and ask for a respawn.

[Doomberg]

When you tick your antag preferences on, you do so accepting the fact that you are likely to end up in cuffs, a cell, a straight jacket, or the morgue, depending on your actions and partly on your luck. Security is not obligated to give you a chance as long as their conduct is within the boundaries of our rules - you're expected to create your own backup plans and escape routes. Had you cooperated, I have no doubt that no straight jacket would have been involved, but you used your powers while in captivity, so security removed the possibility for you to use them any further.

You were completely within rights to ghost and request a respawn at that point, and it would have most likely been granted to you. It's relatively normal to be pissed off about getting caught (I do too), but I do not see any OOC issues here.

[Baka]

You were drugged by me, your sleep toxins must had worn out, and the moment you awoken you fought back, which caused me to have to subdue you. I couldn't necessarily do that because power outage happened at that time and I was warned not to take off your muzzle because you scream and it breaks windows and deafens people. We were taking out your eyes because it was a huge interest since it flashed abnormally, and all of command agreed that there was something unnatural about it and we wanted to research to deliver back to the Odin.

But.

I had to keep you alive according to CC, and it wasn't easy since you were trying to run away with your head wide open, you on an IV drip getting a transfusion and running away even though your blood was in the mid-40%'s and Essel breathing down my back to bring you \to surgery for "biology experimentation".

I was asked to assist you at the brig, I was given orders to keep you alive, I was doing what I was told to do.

It's one of those things being an antagonist, that if you're caught doing antagonist things, it can be game over. Sure, you can give some leeway to the antagonist, but it's pretty hard when the evidence against you is damning.

[Guest Menown]

Mirk, whenever you're caught, and given a chance to speak, you always go, "Release me or die." Every time I've seen that happen.

You don't give any chance for RP. It's always "Release me or die." Then you start doing everything you can to try and break free.

[Jamini]

Mirk, whenever you're caught, and given a chance to speak, you always go, "Release me or die." Every time I've seen that happen.

You don't give any chance for RP. It's always "Release me or die." Then you start doing everything you can to try and break free.

 

...basically this. I mean, there is a reason I don't like having him on my side when I'm a ling or cultist.

[Ryfer]

Staff involved: Ryfus ((Complaint currently being filed against them too.))

Staff involved: Ryfus

Ryfus

 

I tried to explain to you that your actions have consequences when you ahelped, but you weren't hearing any of it because you were angry. I told you that it's expected to happen when you kill to people, and proceed to excessively resist arrest in any way you can, and threaten people when arrested. As an antag, there's always a high chance of you ending up in a position like that. I've spent entire rounds in a straightjacket as a ling, because that's how people are probably going to react to a creature that is capable of all sorts of terrifying things. It really won't be different with a vampire that keeps using it's powers. However, I can say that giving a little bit of cooperation goes a long way. If you'd have stopped resisting and just played along with security, I'm sure you would have had a chance somewhere.

Essentially, prove yourself to be a threat and people are going to treat you like one.

I said all of this before our talk abruptly ended when my internet died for a bit, which I apologize for.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I absolutely detest straitjackets and loathe jacket+muzzle+blindfold combos with every fiber of my innate sense of fair play. This is akin to sedating someone permanently then stuffing them into the cryogenic sleeper, then bolting the doors. It takes them out of the round and places the entire expectation of the individual's ability to continue on security. And it almost never ends up well, because "It's realistic that we do this." is a potent weapon that is used to obliterate criticisms, as realism trumping fair play is a theme we are struggling to come to amends with.

However, based on testimonials you were an absolute butt. The jacket is the absolute final resort for containing antags, after everything else has reasonably failed. Even a welded locker is preferable to a straitjacket. You have to accept the consequences that your actions bring. Attempting a violent escape isn't something that you can do repeatedly and expect security to respond to with the same RoE as last time. If you make it impossible for them to contain you, they're going to use greater force.

While I would rather some slim chance to escape be provided, there's little OOC reason for punishment of security and command that I can see unless we decide to begin enforcing 'fair play' and rule 1 in a firmer, more literal manner.

[Doomberg]

As stated before, I see no reason to issue any punishment to the players in question considering the circumstances.

I'll be locking and archiving this. PM me if you wish to contest it.