Disable vampiric statuettes/Lower their spawn weight significantly

[Sparky_hotdog]

I wanted to get other people's thoughts, especially other research players, on the noticeable uptick in the number of vampiric statuettes found over the last few weeks (with several people reporting finding one up to 4 rounds in a row). I've tried to find why this has happened, but initial thought of it being Uueoa-Esa specific was disproved with similar numbers of statuettes were spawning both there and in the Badlands (~14 per round across all z-levels). Maybe it's bad luck, or something else in the code, idk. There's also the matter that in theory only 1/4 of statuettes should be vampiric, but I don't recall anyone finding a normal one in recent memory.

I'm normally in support of improve-don't-remove, but given I can't actually find the issue here, there's two options I see: Disabling the chance of them spawning as a vampiric one completely, or heavily lowering their spawn rate. I'll be frank, I don't find them a particularly fun mechanic to engage with; If you can call something that infinitely spawns hostile mobs with no way to stop it - short of destroying it with an explosion or some such - a mechanic at all. It basically just means abandoning the digsite, and any nearby, because of RNG. I get that it's supposed to be eldritch and spooky, and I can see the appeal, but right now it's showing up too often and I personally wouldn't be sad if it was gone entirely. It's a bandaid solution to xenoarch as a whole needing reworked, but that isn't going to happen in the near future.

[Jasorn]

i agree with lowering the spawn chance, and maybe some balance added to it like a way to prevent it from activating (anomaly container?) or a way to dispose of it that isn't just spacing the thing

[Evandorf]

I’m always of a mind to give players more options to deal with problems than removing the problems. I also think xenoarch still has some really old kinks that need to be worked out, such as not all anomalies being compatible with the containment crates.

If the statuettes are spawning at a higher rate then they should then it needs to be noted in a bug fix but I also think they present additional opportunities for other departments to get involved in expeditions and have things to do.

[CatsinHD]

In all honesty, I was never a fan of the vampiric statuette in all the times I've interacted with it. It boils down to:

• Xenoarch runs into it
• IF XENOARCH LIVES
  • Runs back to Intrepid. Sec and med are sent
  • Xenoarch healed, sec kills any approaching monster
  • They all leave and never return
• IF XENOARCH DIES
  • Paramedics and/or sec are sent to away site and promptly die due to swarming monsters
  • Any survivors flee on intrepid if possible, usually by escaping agro range of monsters
  • No one returns unless command wants to send the rest of sec and med to recover bodies
• IF IT IS BROUGHT ONTO THE HORIZON
  • It hijacks the attention away from the antag so all of sec can focus on containing the infinite monster spawner

It honestly feels like a minecraft spawner meant to give people something to grind XP on, not an anomaly meant to be contained and researched like SCP. I'm not a huge fan and would be fine with it being removed from spawning (keep it as adminbus). IF we want to keep it, reduce the spawn rate. I have seen it boot literally all of security, both xenoarchs, and both paramedics out of the round before. It shouldn't have the possibility of being run into 4 rounds in a row.

[Evandorf]

1 hour ago, CatsinHD said:

In all honesty, I was never a fan of the vampiric statuette in all the times I've interacted with it. It boils down to:

• Xenoarch runs into it
• IF XENOARCH LIVES
  • Runs back to Intrepid. Sec and med are sent
  • Xenoarch healed, sec kills any approaching monster
  • They all leave and never return
• IF XENOARCH DIES
  • Paramedics and/or sec are sent to away site and promptly die due to swarming monsters
  • Any survivors flee on intrepid if possible, usually by escaping agro range of monsters
  • No one returns unless command wants to send the rest of sec and med to recover bodies
• IF IT IS BROUGHT ONTO THE HORIZON
  • It hijacks the attention away from the antag so all of sec can focus on containing the infinite monster spawner

It honestly feels like a minecraft spawner meant to give people something to grind XP on, not an anomaly meant to be contained and researched like SCP. I'm not a huge fan and would be fine with it being removed from spawning (keep it as adminbus). IF we want to keep it, reduce the spawn rate. I have seen it boot literally all of security, both xenoarchs, and both paramedics out of the round before. It shouldn't have the possibility of being run into 4 rounds in a row.

I personally don’t think any of those are bad on a slow round. At the end of the day the crew determines what level of interaction to opt for with the exception of the xenoarcheologist bringing an obviously dangerous anomaly onto the ship.

It is likely bugged but I have to argue against removing something based only on anecdotal statements when a bug report hasn’t been made for it. At time of writing a brief search in git hasn’t shown any reports submitted of it being overly present.

 

[CatsinHD]

4 hours ago, Evandorf said:

I personally don’t think any of those are bad on a slow round. At the end of the day the crew determines what level of interaction to opt for with the exception of the xenoarcheologist bringing an obviously dangerous anomaly onto the ship.

It is likely bugged but I have to argue against removing something based only on anecdotal statements when a bug report hasn’t been made for it. At time of writing a brief search in git hasn’t shown any reports submitted of it being overly present.

 

I imagine some people may find it fun. I made my post mostly over my own opinion, and I have yet to enjoy interacting with the statuette. While I would have no issue just leaving it for whoever wants to interact with it, I tend to get roped in as a Paramedic main which is why I've thrown in my 2 cents. But again, just my opinion. While I was perhaps a little harsh with advocating for outright removal, lowering the spawn and/or nerfing it some would be fine by me. My gripes mainly come from how often it spawns and how deadly it tends to be without the option to stop it (adding a way for xenoarchs to contain it would also be amazing).

As for the bug report, I never really assumed it was bugged. I know little about the underlying code, I just assumed it was designed to be how it was.

[Evandorf]

2 hours ago, CatsinHD said:

I imagine some people may find it fun. I made my post mostly over my own opinion, and I have yet to enjoy interacting with the statuette. While I would have no issue just leaving it for whoever wants to interact with it, I tend to get roped in as a Paramedic main which is why I've thrown in my 2 cents. But again, just my opinion. While I was perhaps a little harsh with advocating for outright removal, lowering the spawn and/or nerfing it some would be fine by me. My gripes mainly come from how often it spawns and how deadly it tends to be without the option to stop it (adding a way for xenoarchs to contain it would also be amazing).

As for the bug report, I never really assumed it was bugged. I know little about the underlying code, I just assumed it was designed to be how it was.

I agree, Xenoarch needs a way to contain it. I think if they could make the anomaly containers compatible with it that would go a long way.

[NerdyVampire]

I think it was just an oddity that it was found four shifts in a row. It happens with randomization sometimes, and I didn't find it that frequently before or after, speaking as the xenoarch responsible for several of those rounds.

I also can't agree it's a bad thing, even when it was brought to the Horizon. Observing it seemed like several departments engaged with the issue, and even the ones that died to it didn't come off as bitter to me. Machinists had fun taking out Mecha, security had fun making tactical plans and med and engineering had something to do on a slow round.

 

What I do agree with is that it needs some tuning. Infinity spawning is too hard to deal with, I'd recommend giving it a hard limit to how many it can spawn, or incorporate the entire mechanic into a proper anomaly, instead of an artifact as present.

[Evandorf]

I'm working on a way to deal with it but something I discovered while testing was that it only seems to steal blood when it "hears" someone. I've sat next to it with on my test environment with no issues until I say something.

Once it has blood then it starts to do its business and can also absorb blood from the surrounding area.

[WickedCybs]

2 hours ago, Evandorf said:

I'm working on a way to deal with it but something I discovered while testing was that it only seems to steal blood when it "hears" someone. I've sat next to it with on my test environment with no issues until I say something.

Once it has blood then it starts to do its business and can also absorb blood from the surrounding area.

Maybe an exception could be added so it can't draw blood from the mobs it creates, allowing research to work around it like an actual anomaly.

[Evandorf]

I went ahead and did a small change that lets you smash the statuette if necessary. I'll keep plugging away at other options but I'm also learning as I go so it may take some time.

https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/19462

[Evandorf]

23 minutes ago, WickedCybs said:

Maybe an exception could be added so it can't draw blood from the mobs it creates, allowing research to work around it like an actual anomaly.

I might also put some extra descriptive messages so that people are aware it's listening. I like the idea of having a part of the anomaly lab be the "no talking" area.

[Sparky_hotdog]

11 hours ago, WickedCybs said:

allowing research to work around it like an actual anomaly.

At some point I'll look into making it an anomaly that spawns in the same manner as the others, rather than a random jump scare item when you think you're digging for fossils. That would also make it containable eventually, though you'd have to be quiet to actually study it still.

[Evandorf]

3 hours ago, Sparky_hotdog said:

At some point I'll look into making it an anomaly that spawns in the same manner as the others, rather than a random jump scare item when you think you're digging for fossils. That would also make it containable eventually, though you'd have to be quiet to actually study it still.

Normal anomalies are technically typed as machinery and their effects come from machinery code so unfortunately in order to make the statuette into the same would effectively require remaking it from the ground up. I went back and looked at it again and it seems like it might all be self-contained in artifact_unknown.dm. So maybe not as much work.

I think it would be worth it but it’s also the reason I made an alternative way of handling it first.