Frances Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 BYOND Key: FFrances Player Byond Key: Serveris Staff involved: TishinaStalker Reason for complaint: Powergaming during a Nuclear round Approximate Date/Time: 30-MAY-2015 What happened: During a (voted, non-secret) nuclear round, HoS Syrus Seto called for an EVA sweep of the station roughly 20 minutes into the round, so as to hunt for space carp (while elevating the security level of the station to blue). This led to immediate space confrontation between nuke ops and armed officers, and consequently a fully alerted security team. The security team was very quick to react, and engaged and killed most of the nuke ops on their own initiative by the 40 minute mark. The round was over in an hour, culminating in the (imo pretty dumb) suicide bombing of the bridge by the last remaining nuke op. What the issue is: Everyone knew the round was nuke. Thus, sending armed officers into EVA patrol was all but guaranteed to lead to a direct confrontation with nuke ops. And if engineering can't hunt for nuke ops without knowing they're hostile or are even present (refer to this complaint), I don't see why security should as an OOC-driven action. Nuke has the potential to get ugly right quick. I personally believe that any good player (ops or crew) should make an attempt to minimize meaningless confrontations as much as possible. Basically, the ops shouldn't get stormed right away, ops probably shouldn't storm people as well (especially when lethals are involved), because that tends to end with one side being completely killed of, and puts an end to the roleplay. That can be okay, for example, as the climax of a hostage situation. But I don't think it is as the opening to a round. Basically, what happened is: HoS sent armed officers to meet Ops in space > Ops and Sec fought in space as space is the worst place to /avoid/ fights > Sec had a reason to validkill Ops > Ops get hunted down with minimal chance for RP on either side > last Op bombs the bridge out of spite, killing even more people. Notes: -I ahelped the issue to TishinaStalker when the EVA sweep was announced - I was told that nothing could be done as the carps were triggered by a random event. -It is not the first time recently that security has gone EVA carp-hunting in the beginning of a nuke round (though I don't know who was HoS the other times). -I heard that some of the ops also fucked up (though I wasn't part of them, most of my involvement that round was literally walking into the bridge and getting shot on sight.) This complaint isn't about them, and I encourage anyone who knows more than me to write a separate complaint about anything else that might've happened. -I can say a lot more on the issue of Sec vs Ops confrontations, and would like to discuss the scenario in more depth if given the chance, but don't want to make this post too long.
Hackie Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 Oh dear lord, this round was such a mess. Please, do not feel pity for us. Our operation was so poorly planned his EVA hunting didn't really mean anything other than having the entire sec-horde all geared up. We had done some horrible things, and I sincerely apologize on behalf of the Nuclear Operatives for ending the round for a large amount of players and antagonists.
Frances Posted May 31, 2015 Author Posted May 31, 2015 having the entire sec-horde all geared up Wait, can you elaborate on this? I thought all an EVA sweep involved was to put two sec officers in hardsuits and give them lasers to patrol the station.
Guest Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 first contact with nuke ops was when Karl Eisenmenger got tased north of EVA maintenance, not in a space firefight. only one officer was geared up for EVA regarding the carp. ballistics were announced, so security was rapidly armed up and told to set their carbines to stun. If they fired lethals at officers, then officers were advised to return lethal fire. Whether or not they followed that, I've no idea, I was only the warden. I don't recall any radio transmissions from Akenzua, the EVA officer, after a couple ops got their butts kicked.
Frances Posted May 31, 2015 Author Posted May 31, 2015 If they fired lethals at officers, then officers were advised to return lethal fire. My first contact with security was walking up to them as they were coming out of AI upload (after a sec officer reset the AI - which they were talked to for). We were separated by the doors/windows in the bridge hallway. All I did was walked up to them, not really sure what to do, when Seto himself opened fire on me through the glass. There wasn't anything said either in person or through comms, as well. I understand the idea of shooting hostiles on sight, I do. I'm not sure why I'm even explaining this, because I know that it makes IC sense to shoot at people who broke into your bridge and try to neutralize them. But I'm still a bit irked that it happened without anyone from either side having a chance to RP out anything. It was over instantly. Like, break into bridge, get shot by angry sec, ops ded.
TishinaStalker Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 I'm sorry, I really wish I could've said something, but I just couldn't see the metagame. Some HoSes handle things differently, and it's just how the HoS that shift decided to handle the carp situation. If other staff had told me something differently in msay, then I totally would've said something to them.
Frances Posted May 31, 2015 Author Posted May 31, 2015 I'm sorry, I really wish I could've said something, but I just couldn't see the metagame. Some HoSes handle things differently, and it's just how the HoS that shift decided to handle the carp situation. If other staff had told me something differently in msay, then I totally would've said something to them. I'm not sure I understand the tone of your post. Do you recognize it as metagame, or do you still disagree?
Guest Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 If they fired lethals at officers, then officers were advised to return lethal fire. My first contact with security was walking up to them as they were coming out of AI upload (after a sec officer reset the AI - which they were talked to for). We were separated by the doors/windows in the bridge hallway. All I did was walked up to them, not really sure what to do, when Seto himself opened fire on me through the glass. There wasn't anything said either in person or through comms, as well. I understand the idea of shooting hostiles on sight, I do. I'm not sure why I'm even explaining this, because I know that it makes IC sense to shoot at people who broke into your bridge and try to neutralize them. But I'm still a bit irked that it happened without anyone from either side having a chance to RP out anything. It was over instantly. Like, break into bridge, get shot by angry sec, ops ded. Â Your team blitz'd the bridge, subverted the AI to your beck and call, caused some minor atmospherical damage that somewhat cut off and impeded both security and engineering personnel in critical areas. You're complaining that you didn't get any interaction? What did you expect, exactly?
Frances Posted May 31, 2015 Author Posted May 31, 2015 Your team blitz'd the bridge, subverted the AI to your beck and call, caused some minor atmospherical damage that somewhat cut off and impeded both security and engineering personnel in critical areas. You're complaining that you didn't get any interaction? What did you expect, exactly? Half of my team ran off. I don't understand why. I also believe they're responsible for making the round the terrible mess that it was. As a whole, this complaint still centers on the idea of sending security on EVA carp-hunting at the beginning of a nuke round.
Guest Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 Do you actually think the intention was to meta/powergame before the antags had their chance to do anything? Because I'm pretty sure everyone was under the impression that laser rifles were only given out to the one guy in an EVA hardsuit so they can shoot carp, not the offchance that a nuke op would appear.
Frances Posted May 31, 2015 Author Posted May 31, 2015 If you send people to explore the surroundings of the station when you OOCly know that nuke ops will be roaming about at the same time, you're pretty much asking for a fight, or at least for the two groups to meet.
TishinaStalker Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 I'm sorry, I really wish I could've said something, but I just couldn't see the metagame. Some HoSes handle things differently, and it's just how the HoS that shift decided to handle the carp situation. If other staff had told me something differently in msay, then I totally would've said something to them. I'm not sure I understand the tone of your post. Do you recognize it as metagame, or do you still disagree? Â I'm not sure yet, really! I would prefer to wait until I hear Serveris because of the fact that carp can spawn in places where you won't know they're there until you go out in EVA. Which creates lurking dangers for engineers. Areas such as: http://gyazo.com/ba51805952a55165be0f579cbc05bad3 http://gyazo.com/0b8e69fc16f1ca47eaaa11be336f7eda And other such locations. As a disclaimer, my opinion on this thread is as a player, not as the administrator handling the complaint.
Frances Posted May 31, 2015 Author Posted May 31, 2015 http://gyazo.com/ba51805952a55165be0f579cbc05bad3http://gyazo.com/0b8e69fc16f1ca47eaaa11be336f7eda Right, that's a threadkiller as far as I'm concerned. These spots can easily be ambushed, which would counter the security EVA sweep (and put ops at an advantage). I guess I just didn't think much since I don't have a lot of experience playing as an op. Complaint withdrawn, unless anyone else has something to add.
Tainavaa Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 In my experience - when carp is around the station - security is pretty on the ball when it comes to hunting and eradicating the pest. I think the fact that it was nuke was inconsequential. I see security going EVA to carp-hunt quite a bit no matter the round. In fact, I personally see to it that the station is cleared of carp in and around its immediate area myself. EDIT: Didn't read the thread, just read the last post. Still gonna keep the content because why not.
Filthyfrankster Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 To add a last comment to this I was the guy in the EVA suit hunting carp, Literally. I come back from an AFK, Get handed a laser rifle, an EVA suit for unathi and be told to kill some fukken carp. Just me, lone survivor. I encountered no nuke ops in space, Just carp. Lots of carp, once I heard reports of armed hostiles in the station, I found the nuke ops entry point by the bridge then all this shit occurred.
Doomberg Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 Consider this resolved unless the author changes her mind. Will leave open for 24 hours for any further comments, as usual.
Frances Posted May 31, 2015 Author Posted May 31, 2015 To add a last comment to thisI was the guy in the EVA suit hunting carp, Literally. I come back from an AFK, Get handed a laser rifle, an EVA suit for unathi and be told to kill some fukken carp. Just me, lone survivor. I encountered no nuke ops in space, Just carp. Lots of carp, once I heard reports of armed hostiles in the station, I found the nuke ops entry point by the bridge then all this shit occurred. My issue wasn't with numbers but with the presence of security at all. It doesn't really matter how many members of sec there are - the moment one of them encounters unknown hardsuits that aren't engineering (and tend to have a bunch of weapons out), they'll inform the rest of security on comms and the station goes on full alert. The counter to this is that these EVA security officers become very vulnerable to capture, which I see as a decent trade-off.
Recommended Posts