Complaints

[Gollee]

Right, okay, so, complaints.

We have three sub-forums for behaviour problems; Ban requests, staff complaints, player/character complaints.

I have noticed (And I am not the only one) that we have had a vast influx of character complaints for things that are either relatively inane, or should probably have been ban requests.

As a proviso, I am not expressing my stance on any of these complaints, simply on the events reported.

Examples:

These complaints contain actions that conflict directly with the rules, so they should be ban requests; there isn't any murkiness about it, it's a clear cut yes or no whether punishment should be applied.

http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2694

http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2703 ((Only parts of this one, as it involves 3 people))

http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2709 ((EDIT: I am not good at Atmos))

http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2518

Whereas, these ones are low-key to the point of being character quirks or in reaction to minor ingame events, and not really deserving of complaint, though incident reports are possible.

http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2697

http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2589

http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2497

I am feeling that we are making far too many player/character complaints when we really should be using one of the two other areas; I am going to go out on a limb and say that I think this is because we don't want to offend people. My view, on that, is that a complaint is as rude, if not more so, than a ban request, because other people lose their inhibitions due to it being a more politically correct board and spew out all their anger and relatively anonymous rage, turning complaints into 10 page long blood feuds.

I will say this again, I AM NOT COMMENTING ON THE PLAYERS INVOLVED IN OR MAKING THE ABOVE COMPLAINTS, I am looking objectively at the actions involved, rather than names, if you feel that I am not, feel free to PM me, and we can politely discuss it over a pot of earl grey and I am british, and that is therefore amusing.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Guest

[Skull132]

Quick note. Since we're talking about objective assessments, http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2709 is by no means a ban-requestable thing.

No plasma was leaked, and there are no rules which actively stop you from fucking around with the mix loops. No plasma was leaked into the distro loop, as such, it's not grief.

Overall though, yes. Not liking something is not a valid reason to submit a complaint, and I am starting to slowly regret my urging for people to make complaints. Complaints require thought and assessment of a situation in order to be valid. "He didn't RP the way I wanted!" is not grounds for a complaint. "He RP-d in a way that broke the rules!" is. The slugfests that these create are silly (half of them are created for no good reason, either). And as it stands, there are roughly two choices on how to actually fix the issue:

Privatize complaints to be more player->admin->subject dependent, through the use of forms and spreadsheets.

Or simply have my staff run a tighter leash on actually dismissing useless complaints, instead of amusing them for the sake of amusing them.

[Gollee]

Fixed.

[Jamini]

An incident report cannot be made due to antagonist action (evacuation), and my complaint is about a player who is utterly and completely failing to fill the role he signed on as. A whitelisted role.

In fact, quite honestly I don't see any of the three you brought up that are "incident report worthy" as being so. They are OOC issues brought to the attention of staff. Just because you do not agree that they are complaint worthy does not mean they are not complaint worthy.

[Gollee]

though incident reports are possible.

 

if you feel that I am not, feel free to PM me

[Jamini]

I'm saying at least half of this thread has no merit.

Incident Reports are for IC, canon actions only. If an antagonist is involved directly, you cannot incident report.

Player Reports are for poor behavior and improper play. If someone feels another player is doing something that is not right, but not ban worthy, it goes there. If they are wrong in their views then so be it. It is still their right to place a complaint.

Ban Requests are for direct rules violations and obvious bans.

Of the seven threads you brought up, exactly one of them really doesn't fit the criteria of each of those forums. And that is the one regarding the borg and pAI.

[Gollee]

though incident reports are possible.

 

if you feel that I am not, feel free to PM me

[Jamini]

Privatize complaints to be more player->admin->subject dependent, through the use of forms and spreadsheets.

Or simply have my staff run a tighter leash on actually dismissing useless complaints, instead of amusing them for the sake of amusing them.

 

Privatize please. Though really having them open for debate is still my own personal preference.

I don't see the issue with having community members argue and debate. Quite the opposite, it encourages people to speak up and talk about issues that bother them. Regardless of validity of the complaint in question.

Having seen the latter, it serves to really incense people to be (seemingly) dismissed.

[Guest Menown]

All I want is for incident reports to be /private/ ICly. It's annoying seeing 'letters' from people discussing a private matter like it's an open forums.

[Tainavaa]

I agree with Meowy. I'd like it to be like, Internal Affairs-only. And the agent is allowed to disclose information on a need-to-know basis or something.

But IC, I think it should be regarded as private unless told through official/personal channels.

[SgtSammac]

All I want is for incident reports to be /private/ ICly. It's annoying seeing 'letters' from people discussing a private matter like it's an open forums.

 

The amount of times I've wanted to scream this at people is ridiculous.

If someone made an IR about you in real life. You wouldn't see it and be able to read it. You wait until the equiv of the DO/IA sends a formal letter to you or visits you or your manager calls you into the office.

[Eliot Clef]

All I want is for incident reports to be /private/ ICly. It's annoying seeing 'letters' from people discussing a private matter like it's an open forums.

 

The amount of times I've wanted to scream this at people is ridiculous.

If someone made an IR about you in real life. You wouldn't see it and be able to read it. You wait until the equiv of the DO/IA sends a formal letter to you or visits you or your manager calls you into the office.

 

While I understand the reasoning, I think it's a lot more dangerous to deny people the ability to submit rebuttals than it is to simply allow it to happen. Incident Reports leading to Duty Officer visits are fairly disruptive to the people who have to deal with them, and Incident Reports are sometimes quite frivolous and slanted.

Admittedly, I think I've only ever offered rebuttals as slaved synthetics, which I am fairly confident would be tapped for information concerning Incident Reports on their shifts.

[Guest]

All I want is for incident reports to be /private/ ICly. It's annoying seeing 'letters' from people discussing a private matter like it's an open forums.

 

I suppose this is fair, really.

It gives DOs more of a reason to come onboard the station to do some investigations on incident reports, etc etc, rather than discussing it like it's an open board, as stated already.

[Frances]

I am for complaints/IC reports/whatever being public.

Having them being private removes a vast amount of transparency, and can easily give to players the impression that nothing is being done/dealt with (and sometimes that's the case, so I'd rather be able to bump complaints or at least see them.)

[SgtSammac]

I am for complaints/IC reports/whatever being public.

Having them being private removes a vast amount of transparency, and can easily give to players the impression that nothing is being done/dealt with (and sometimes that's the case, so I'd rather be able to bump complaints or at least see them.)

 

Meow said Private in an IC manner, not invisible on the forums.

[Frances]

Meow said Private in an IC manner, not invisible on the forums.

Whoops, I just understood that.

Do people really discuss them like it was gossip? That's sorta silly, I always assumed they were private. Somebody ought to clarify that.

[SierraKomodo]

Meow said Private in an IC manner, not invisible on the forums.

Whoops, I just understood that.

Do people really discuss them like it was gossip? That's sorta silly, I always assumed they were private. Somebody ought to clarify that.

 

There has been a few reports where several people chimed in on the incident.

[Guest]

My take on it is that incident reports are private to everyone but Command/IAA/AI .