Player Complaint: TechnoKat

[Frances]

BYOND Key: FFrances

Player Byond Key: TechnoKat

Staff involved: None (sent an ahelp, didn't get a reply)

Reason for complaint: Extremely belligerent behavior against round antagonists as a warden

Approximate Date/Time: June 9th 2015 at approx 6:00 PM EST

Roughly 2 hours into a heist round, Viktor Kaipov, station warden, decided to equip himself with a hardsuit and energy carbine, and make his way to the Vox skipjack alone. The Vox had previously left the station after a tense incident where one of their own died in medbay and the crew subsequently branded them as hostile, and all of the Vox had consequently returned to the skipjack. Enter Kaipov, who made his way to the skipjack for an unknown reason, with a carbine and full secbelt, and began almost immediately engaging the Vox in combat until he was killed. One thing possibly worthy of note was that the Vox had a hostage on the ship, though little to no discussion of any kind was engaged over station comms regarding the hostage, and nobody on the crew particularly cared about it.

Here are logs encompassing the entirety of the time between Kaipov's arrival and the beginning of the fight:

Chikahhachakika says, "There is a meat."

Chikahhachakika exclaims, "There is a meat in the airlock!"

Chikahhachakika SHRIEKS, "Ya hiAAA ka SKREkahEEE hiKA!"

Timothy Bratton [145.9] says, ";Beats me"

Anupama Jesnin [145.9] warbles, "Qrrquumqrr zix xuqzaooqrr qrrqr. Xuqm !"

LOOC: Mikalhvi: oh nooooo

Chikahhachakika SHRIEKS, "Ti kahi!"

Chikahhachakika yells, "Freeze!"

Victor Kaipov says, "No harm."

Chikahhachakika shouts, "You no come onboard ship!"

Chahihahaha says, " what"

Chikahhachakika talks into the radio headset

Chikahhachakika SHRIEKS, "RAWKkah!"

Victor Kaipov has thrown Void Jetpack (Oxygen).

Chahihahaha asks, " why are you here!?"

Chikahhachakika talks into the radio headset

Chikahhachakika SHRIEKS, "TiAHK!"

Chahihahaha asks, " why are you here!?"

Chahihahaha has been beaten in the chest with stunbaton by Victor Kaipov!

The tiny puncture on the alien stealth suit gapes wider!

A tiny puncture opens up on the alien stealth suit!

Chahihahaha has been beaten with the the stunbaton by Victor Kaipov!

Chahihahaha has been stunned with the the stunbaton by Victor Kaipov!

 

These are some additional LOOC logs which I felt were relevant to the situation:

LOOC: Mikalhvi: Bad Warden. You're not even supposed to leave the brig.

LOOC: TechnoKat: got spaced and landed in here.

LOOC: TechnoKat: then some chiki retard fires spear at me.

LOOC: Mikalhvi: after you beat them with the stunbatoon

LOOC: Mikalhvi: you shot first, Han. Don't play dumb.

LOOC: TechnoKat: try and save me

LOOC: TechnoKat: get me to outpost, limbless.

LOOC: TechnoKat: and dead, after whacking more

LOOC: TechnoKat: should've harmbatonned the cuffed vox instead, eh

 

tl;dr: Warden left the brig for no apparent reason, grabbed a hardsuit and a carbine, flew to the Vox skipjack alone, and started trying to robust the Vox without a word.

[Skull132]

Person was reprimanded for ridiculous warden play a few days ago by myself. So if this checks out, yeah. For the sake of the record.

[Hycinth]

We were ordered out there by the acting captain, and he didn't go alone. I just got hit by a drone and mysteriously tossed into space along the way.

[Frances]

We were ordered out there by the acting captain, and he didn't go alone. I just got hit by a drone and mysteriously tossed into space along the way.

In that case, his pretty poor handling of the situation still comes to stand. He harmbatoned the Vox for no discernible reason, made no attempt to stand down, and complained in LOOC after the fact.

[Hycinth]

We were told to kill, as they'd shown themselves hostile. That's all I can throw in on the matter, as I was busy (unwillingly) exploring space at the time of the events in question.

[Frances]

We were told to kill, as they'd shown themselves hostile. That's all I can throw in on the matter, as I was busy (unwillingly) exploring space at the time of the events in question.

Do you remember who the interim HoS was?

I don't recall the Vox doing anything particularly hostile up to the confrontation with Kaipov, aside from kidnapping a single person who came willingly (and that nobody on station seemed to give two fucks about).

[Hycinth]

It was the breaking into the captain's office and stealing everything, including the nuke disk and spare ID that prompted the CE, Nasir Khayyam, to order several sec officers out in hardsuits to confront the Vox.

[TechnoKat]

I don't recall harmbatonning the vox to death or something, my intent was set to harm which after realizing I quickly turned into another intent. In a nutshell, we were ordered by acting captain to spread out and confront the vox who damaged the captains office, took everything there was inside and left, later to realize drones are outside, getting me and Hycinth spaced. I landed on the asteroid and wanted to get back to station, until I found their ship just staying nearby mining outpost. I went inside, PDA'd Nasir about course of action and he told me to detain, which I did. The vox however, responded lethally to the stun baton and shot a couple of spikes. The two got detained, I start moving up and suddenly more come out of nowhere. We get into a fight, I was being shot spikes and hit by telebaton to chest I think, I used one of theirs telebaton on the legs, caught trying to cuff one until David comes in the middle of the session, pushing me away and disarming everyone. The vox decided to gang up and corner me, shooting everything they had. I was near death, so I responded with lasering whatever was in the way. The vox however, after capturing me, still insisted to harmbaton me and shoot a couple spikes, then killed me to death by telebaton I think.

And again, I wasn't hunting for the ship, it got in my way.

[Frances]

I went inside, PDA'd Nasir about course of action and he told me to detain, which I did.

Okay. I think this is the big problem here.

You walk into the ship of a large group of individuals who you know are hostile to you. You are alone. Several of these individuals accost you and ask you for the reason of your presence. You are hoping to arrest said individuals and bring them to justice.

What do you think is the best course of action, and why?

[Andrewroo]

I was the first to stand up against him in the ship and I asked him multiple times what he wants on our ship... of course he said to detain us... then he decided to stun me and fire st the others... I was the guy in the stealth suit incase the other Vox players wanna know

[Andrewroo]

I was the first to stand up against him in the ship and I asked him multiple times what he wants on our ship... of course he said to detain us... then he decided to stun me and fire st the others... I was the guy in the stealth suit incase the other Vox players wanna know

 

Ill also add. We negotiated with the officer previously in the round to give up por weapons to him so we werent a threat to the station... that was infact very successful. He didnt attempt negotiations aboard the vox ship.

[Jamini]

Right.

Events as far as I know them:

Heist Round. I was the acting cap at the time, there was no head of security.

Shortly after I arrived I had to go up to the bridge. ( I don't exactly recall why. It was a long night last night ). While I was going up there I heard people cutting and unscrewing things. I went to investigate the captain's office and saw at minimum three Vox looting it.

The Vox explained calmly that the station crew had killed one of their number, and in retaliation they were stealing the captain's office. Since I was unarmed and outnumbered, I left and went down to security. Messaging ahead to the warden that I would need a few officers armed up.

Kaipov, Skyline, and Jillian were present when I arrived. I briefed them quickly and told them to come with me to the captain's office to stop the vox from stealing high-value things like the Auth disk, the spare ID, and the captain's headset.

By the time we got back the Vox had bugged out, with security landing a single lethal on one of them as they fled. Considering they now had an important All-Access ID, I took all three officers present and told them to get suits and try to recover our stolen equipment. I went with them to EVA and gave one of the engineering suits and one of the void jetpacks to Skyline so all three could move freely in space, as well as giving them orders to stick together and attempt to detain rather than outright kill the Vox.

As far as I know from PDA logs, the group got separated when they ran into a drone. Kaipov stumbled on to the Vox shuttle and eventually ended up killed. Jillian got spaced, worked her way back, then went back out on her own accord and got killed. Skyline ended up getting lost for a bit, then came back inside and informed me of a "dead" (SSD) engineer in a solar access who we pulled in.

 

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TL : DR

Vox went and raided a high-level area. Crew sent a group of security (two officers and the warden) after them. Vox won the subsequent fight. Vox players distort the truth and complain about the crew reacting to them as raiders when they had been raiding the captain's office.

[Hycinth]

Jillian got spaced, worked her way back, then went back out on her own accord and got killed

 

Skyline was with me, but yeah. I was probably the only one actually out for blood at that point, due to Victor being killed. Skyline managed to nail me in the face with a rapid fire laser, which let the Vox one shot me into crit with a laser.

Still salty ;-;

[Frances]

Vox players distort the truth and complain about the crew reacting to them as raiders when they had been raiding the captain's office.

What Kaipov did was still outright very poor play as a member of security.

You do not walk alone into a den of antags and start stunspamming the lot out of the blue.

Right?

[Jamini]

Vox players distort the truth and complain about the crew reacting to them as raiders when they had been raiding the captain's office.

What Kaipov did was still outright very poor play as a member of security.

You do not walk alone into a den of antags and start stunspamming the lot out of the blue.

Right?

 

There was only a single baton hit on harm. (They throw up multiple logs.) That was after the Vox had already threatened him with a lethal weapon. He also did get clearance before going in. (Though I was /not/ aware he was alone and that the ship had all the vox there. I was under the impression he had found the ship abandoned.)

I'm actually curious about this part:

 

Victor Kaipov says, "No harm."

Victor Kaipov has thrown Void Jetpack (Oxygen)

 

It very much looks like he tried to negotiate. Are you certain a spear didn't get fired near him (perhaps as a warning shot) and miss?

It doesn't strike me as an outright gank. Both Vox had plenty of time to talk, and Kaipov himself had talked and acted before acting offensively.

[Frances]

Even as Techno himself said,

 

I went inside, PDA'd Nasir about course of action and he told me to detain, which I did. The vox however, responded lethally to the stun baton and shot a couple of spikes.

 

Really, in my opinion, Techno had no business trying to detain the vox in such a ridiculous manner (consider: if a group of nuke ops were on station and hadn't proven to be outright violent yet, what sort of behavior would an officer ramboing with a stunbaton promote?). This would fall under improper escalation of a fight: you know if you try to arrest a group of antags alone, without as much of a word, you're going to get BTFO.

[Andrewroo]

Like I said.. I was the one who stood at the door and asked him what he wanted... Ill just let you all know... He only said he wanted to detain us. Our response was to tell him to basically GTFO and leave. He probably didnt like our response of not wanting to negotiate and so he stunned me multipe times to ensure I woudnt get up....... and then begins the attack on the other Vox. We werent at all violent towards him in anyway. He had no reason to assume we were violent either... He knew we branded ourselves as traders.

[Jamini]

Even as Techno himself said,

 

I went inside, PDA'd Nasir about course of action and he told me to detain, which I did. The vox however, responded lethally to the stun baton and shot a couple of spikes.

 

Really, in my opinion, Techno had no business trying to detain the vox in such a ridiculous manner (consider: if a group of nuke ops were on station and hadn't proven to be outright violent yet, what sort of behavior would an officer ramboing with a stunbaton promote?). This would fall under improper escalation of a fight: you know if you try to arrest a group of antags alone, without as much of a word, you're going to get BTFO.

 

The Vox had already proven to be a serious threat however. Your complaints of a gank are basically unfounded as they had already raided the station twice and taken multiple high-risk items. Items that Kaipov was tasked, along with the rest of his squad (who got spacelost) to recover.

Kaipov, being overconfident, felt he could take on two of the Vox. He checked in and got permission before doing so. He gave the Vox time to act and did several actions before doing so. He lost because he went in alone in a stupid manner. This is in-line with how his character has historically acted (overconfident in his abilities and occasionally a poor assessment of the risks) and ultimately he paid the price for his actions. (As he did not account for two additional Vox and their human sympathizer.)

 

You don't like his decision. Could he have gone another route? Yes. But does it really warrant a complaint? I very much doubt that.

 

I believe this quote applies here.

[Guest]

I'm too lazy to do it myself. But I suggest everyone read the Gank Rule outline in the General Board for a refresher on what our Administration conisders gank.

[Frances]

Except shouldn't we try to curb overconfident, overaggressive characters, to a point?

Because by that logic, you can write off most of the actions of shitty sec as personality quirks.

Anyway, just a thought. The original context under which the complaint was made was a bit more suspicious, but I don't like how Techno basically complained of gank in LOOC and insulted the involved players after the fact. (He also tried to ask them to make him an AI after he died, for some reason.)

[Japak121]

But isn't this just...Kaipov?

I mean I get that the staff want to curb homicidal janitors and what not, but this character has established history of basically being a shock trooper.

I gotta say also, even though Techno talks alot of smack OOCly and is pretty robust, every interaction I've personally had and have witnessed there character's have are usually very fair and by the book. Things sometimes get out of hand and/or things are miss-communicated, but they rarely ever step outta line on purpose. People just seem to really take it personally that they get robusted even when it's a fair deal. Hell, I've been nailed by Kaipov as an antag quite a few times and my first thought is always 'damn, wish I was that good' or 'i messed up'.

TL;DR - Technokat didn't do anything wrong. It was a mix of miss-communication, crap circumstance, and just how THAT character is.

[tuiee]

Locked and archived following a resolution with Techno.