Staff Complaint: XanderDox

[Guest]

BYOND Key: OneOneThreeEight

Staff BYOND Key: XanderDox

Reason for complaint: Issuing a board warning for a 12-day-old post. CORRECTION, this was a month-old post.

Evidence/logs/etc: http://puu.sh/j5mQn/00b3397d2b.png http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=26702#p26702

Additional remarks: This is a little bit silly for issuing a board warning for a 12 day month old post in which the discussion died. The thread served its purpose and became ded. It looked like cherrypicking to me.

[nanotoxin]

http://prntscr.com/7umril concerning http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=29034#p29034

Yeah, I'd like to add to that as well.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Guest

[Guest]

Oh boy.

Everyone else not being staff refrain from posting, please.

Edit: Okay, Xander. I get you're on a roll here.

But seriously, what?

[Ryfer]

One thing, and an admin can correct me if wrong, but. Xander, You should probably stop going through past posts and removing stuff that isn't currently causing a problem until the complaint is resolved. It almost looks like you're trying to cause further conflict by doing that.

That said, people who are non-staff can still post if it's relevant to the matter at hand, I believe.

[Guest]

I was going through backup which Admins hadn't gotten too. There was 17 backed up reported posts that hadn't been Cleared or Deleted but still were flagged, just because it happened in the past does not make you innocent of guilt.

And I am generally supposed to inform players if I'm deleting their posts, which is what the message was about.

We don't just look through old posts and stuff, we get a control board that shows us all posts with outstanding reports, just because they are old, does not mean a player is going to get by on doing something against the rules, outstanding reports still get dealt with.

EDIT:

Please note; The reason we got Forum Mods in the first place, was to 1. Clear the backlog for the Server Mods and Admins, and 2. Ensure further backlog isn't created by dealing with reports as they arise.

[Guest]

I was going through backup which Admins hadn't gotten too. There was 17 backed up reported posts that hadn't been Cleared or Deleted but still were flagged, just because it happened in the past does not make you innocent of guilt.

And I am generally supposed to inform players if I'm deleting their posts, which is what the message was about.

We don't just look through old posts and stuff, we get a control board that shows us all posts with outstanding reports, just because they are old, does not mean a player is going to get by on doing something against the rules, outstanding reports still get dealt with.

 

See, now this is a case in which I can say that staff transparency is an issue.

Just today you were given a trial period as a forum moderator, clearing up and deleting reports that weren't initially touched before. This looks like over-zealousness.

And generally speaking, you should probably communicate with other staff regarding advisement with the reports, especially since you just got a new job and operating specialty. I'm not really willing to believe that was actually done, here.

And just because they (the warnings) are there, doesn't mean they're due for clean-up. You probably should've asked before doing anything. You're doing way too much at once and this is going to be a deal-breaker for you. Just because the reports are there doesn't mean you should immediately react to it.

And the 'backlog' doesn't matter if you're screwing up with judgement calls that make no sense.

[Guest]

I consulted Sound Scopes in a broad sense, without inquiring about certain reports on their own I posed questions regarding operating procedure and such.

The reports have stagnated because our staff our busy, we /were/ brought on and implemented directly to counteract the stagnation that had occurred, not touching them... Would be counterproductive? Contacting an Admin every time I need to deal with a reported reply to a topic would be time-consuming and disruptive to whatever the Admin is doing at the time, and would defeat the point of the Forum Mod's existence.

I have done nothing wrong within my role, posts that issues with them, even though they were old, were culled, those who weren't dealt with by the admins and had open reports, and were worthy of warnings, were given warnings.

EDIT:

Regarding the deletion of your reply to Jaker's thread, it was because it was reported for being off topic, and not only did a report come in, but the OP himself wanted everyone to stay on topic.

[F_sphere]

I know policy has changed quite a bit around here since I've left but I heard about this and thought I might add my ol' two cents.

Admins get busy. Really busy. When people start to make a fuss in game, they clean it up. But when these people take it to the forums, too, it's hard for them to stop what they're doing in the game and clean that up too. That's what forum moderators exist, to keep the administrative process flowing smoothly.

It seems to me that if a backlog of complaints is building up, someone isn't doing their job right. And if I were an admin, and things were filling up, and I was too busy to keep an eye on them and handle them, I'd sure as hell want someone to help me out.

I completely understand the frustration of being warned a long period of time after something occurred. Opinions change and emotions cool and suddenly what you did doesn't carry much weight anymore.

But if it's something you should be warned for, you should be warned, to prevent further mistakes. If it happens a month later, then you had a month too cool down before learning what was wrong. But if it took a month, someone's not paying enough attention.

I don't see what Xander did as any error or misjudgment of his duties. I believe he's gone above and beyond what was expected of him to fill a gap someone else left.

[Guest]

I'll also note that a forum warning isn't the end of the world... It doesn't operate in a three strikes BAN way... They are the equivalent to server notes, but on the forums, and you are made aware of them. They are just for staff to check quickly to see how someone behaves on the forum. They do not come with autopunishments or anything like that.

[Guest]

Right everyone hold it and please use the edit button rather than double posting.

Forum mods are something that is new and just started up, there was/is a backlog that needed clearing. Just because it's been left for a long time doesn't mean it shouldn't be looked at.

However the method of how this is handled and the process of how to deal with things is still being worked out.

If needed I can go through all the warnings given and see how valid they are and you are allowed to contest them.

Edit: Sphere & Xander Ninja'd

[F_sphere]

Right everyone hold it and please use the edit button rather than double posting.

Forum mods are something that is new and just started up, there was/is a backlog that needed clearing. Just because it's been left for a long time doesn't mean it shouldn't be looked at.

However the method of how this is handled and the process of how to deal with things is still being worked out.

If needed I can go through all the warnings given and see how valid they are and you are allowed to contest them.

Edit: Sphere & Xander Ninja'd

 

See, this is good. Give people a chance to discuss their warnings rather than try to fault the moderator.

[Frances]

While we're here, I don't really see these posts as being off-topic. They're criticism/discussion pertaining to the thread itself, and are formulated decently enough to be pertinent.

[Guest]

I'll also note that a forum warning isn't the end of the world... It doesn't operate in a three strikes BAN way... They are the equivalent to server notes, but on the forums, and you are made aware of them. They are just for staff to check quickly to see how someone behaves on the forum. They do not come with autopunishments or anything like that.

 

I can't be convinced to believe, this, sorry. I'm under the impression that the proactivity displayed was, well, proactive enough to make me think that it's not based on note-taking, because I'm within the belief that someone's going to start handing out forum bans in the next couple weeks over super old forum conduct that shouldn't be brought up again, because the last thing we need is more gasoline to pour on fires just barely about to burn up the rest of the hot air.

I'm not saying 'set this as a precedent and never bring up old shit ever again or do anything with your job,' because I would rather have the forum mods be on the dot with Hot Topic(s), scrubbing dumbposts out and handing warnings out like candy when they appear. Because. Yes, that's doing your job because you're present and aware of the discussion and the situation. Because, really, I think one thing everyone learned from those threads from a couple weeks ago is to not to touch it ever again.

I'd just like some idea that there is consistency within the staff. Hell, I'd love to know what expectations all of the branches/dept(s) of the staff team are held to, and have that be public for everyone to see for the sake of, wellllll, my favorite word: Transparency!

[Guest]

If you are worried about getting forum banned over a few warnings you have no need.

In order for any forum ban to go through, it must be passed through an admin and with good reason.

In order for them to get to the hot topics they need to have a clean work area to keep on track of it.

We have just taken on new staff, some not even a day old, and put in a new system in place that is still being worked out.

The reason those posts got seen to was because they were already flagged on the system. Xander did not pick and choose posts at random, all had an open report in the mods control panel.

[Jakers457]

The backlog has been cleared and with the new bout of forum moderators, there shouldn't be anymore backlog. With this, you can expect warnings to be punctual from now on. We're in the process of clearing the clutter, and we didn't want to sweep any reports under the rug albeit how long ago they were posted as it would be a bit negligent to do so. Hopefully you understand what I'm trying to say 1138.

EDIT:

While we're here, I don't really see these posts as being off-topic. They're criticism/discussion pertaining to the thread itself, and are formulated decently enough to be pertinent.

 

The particular thread in question was made strictly for requesting and offering critique for certain characters, in my mind, commenting about the posting within the thread isn't what the thread is for and therefor off topic. I'm the OP of the particular thread and I was very adamant about it, it's mainly to keep everything more or less relevant and to keep things more or less, peaceful. Perhaps that makes me seem... anal? But I'd rather people PM me directly if they found issues with my thread rather than posting something other than feedback or a request.

Hopefully that clears up stuff for you, if not feel free to PM me if you've any issues.

[Frances]

The particular thread in question was made strictly for requesting and offering critique for certain characters, in my mind, commenting about the posting within the thread isn't what the thread is for and therefor off topic. I'm the OP of the particular thread and I was very adamant about it, it's mainly to keep everything more or less relevant and to keep things more or less, peaceful. Perhaps that makes me seem... anal? But I'd rather people PM me directly if they found issues with my thread rather than posting something other than feedback or a request.

That would completely bar any public debate or criticism about the thread, which seems like a major impediment to free speech (yes lol).

On paper, people just get to debate a thread in a different location. But in practice, you get OPs turning down or ignoring criticism, and nobody getting to really see it or oppose it. Plus people who aren't the OP do tend to have things to say about threads, too, and you lose all of their input.

[Jakers457]

They may criticize the thread, but with a new thread. That might sound convoluted but I rather keep the critique of characters and the critique of thread. If anything 1138's issues have been heard by me, just trying to think of a way to solve them.

[Frances]

What exactly is the point of creating a new thread? Why can't criticism be posted on the thread itself?

Making an entirely new thread because you have slight reservations about another seems unnecessary and like something that could be perceived as a really exaggerated response.

[Jakers457]

What's the point in creating a new feedback thread when we already one? Because I wanted to make a new one that didn't hold back any punches, but at the same time I didn't want any discussions on said thread. It wanted it to be blunt and to the point, in regards to what the topic was for and that was giving critique on someone's characters. People either request or give feedback, then leave it at that and see what feedback they get for their characters. If they have issues about the thread, then they can simply message me and I'll act accordingly.

The current issue, which 1138 pointed out, is the back log of people requesting feedback and not enough people giving it. That's an issue I've accepted and am currently trying figure out a way to solve that, if there is a solution. Perhaps, making a new thread is unnecessary but I rather keep the 'Character Feedback Thread' about 'Character Feedback' and maybe that's unreasonable but it's worked so far. And repeat myself, people who feel the thread could be better or has some issues, may PM me and then I can discuss with them directly, to get a better understanding. But that's all I'm saying on that matter, I gave my side of why the posts were deleted and there's little reason to continue it on this thread for argument's sake. If 1138 or Tytos have any issues with the deletion, seeing as they were the parties involved, they can feel free to speak to me.

[Frances]

Oh, uh, whoops. I didn't mean to ask what was the point of your thread. I was more confused as to the suggestion you posted - that people that found issues with said thread should start an entire new one, instead of sharing their issues in a post.

[Guest]

Oh, hello.

I was alerted via email that you apparently gave me two board warnings and deleted some threads in which I posted. I don't even know which one the second one was, but the first one was something about security.

I just decided to drop by for a moment to point out that deleting 1-2 month old dead threads and warning people who don't even swing by here anymore is pretty stupid.

Anyhow, considering my conduct and the fact that I don't want to scrub my email every single time you warn me on every single one of my posts. Im just going to ask that you silently do this... whatever you classify it as, without pestering me.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Guest

[Guest]

I didn't look at people's names very often when reviewing and providing warnings for clear ad hominem in attacks, you've visited the forums lately, and thus when something is found that is warning worthy, you will be given a warning, I apologize that you have it setup so these go to your email, you should find a way to change that or close your account.

[Gollee]

I'm on Xander's side on this issue. It's a shitty job, but the forum mods can't just write off reports, it wouldn't be honest, they have to treat them all the same, the fact that you think it's Xander's fault that he has to moderate the reports is... Off.

To be honest, I've probably filed the most reports of anyone on the forums, so if you want to pick a fight with someone, take it up with me, rather than someone who is just fulfilling their job description. I've also reported Inverted's comment, as it is a blatant personal attack.

[Dreamix]

In my opinion, warnings and bans shouldn't be issued by a moderator to posts, that were posted before approving of their mod-apps. Much like "Lex retro non agit" ("A law does not apply retroactively") -law. If admins and mods have not issued a warning to (for example) Delta/1138 two months ago, you shouldn't neither.

[Guest]

The only reason they haven't be dealt with before Dreamix is because staff have been too busy. The rules have always been the rules, just because Forum Mods weren't around before, doesn't mean everyone breaking the forum rules gets away with it.

Also: Moderators do not have the power to issue bans, that must go through an admin.