Staff Complaint: Xanderdox

[K0NFL1QT]

BYOND Key: K0NFL1QT

Staff BYOND Key: Xanderdox

Reason for complaint: For doctoring a legitimate thread and deleting quality posts.

Evidence/logs/etc: http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3254

Additional remarks: It was shameful to lock that thread, even after the tampering, instead of reverting the deletions and edits and allowing the very legitimate discussion to continue. Crescentise made an excellent breakdown of what and why SSLs are and why they are bad, somebody deleted it and every appreciative reaction post. The topic could have brought to light the poor behaviour of some of the players in question. Now all that is left is outrage at being censored and silenced.

[Garnascus]

Gonna need to see what was actually deleted before I can give an opinion on this. If a forum mod has access to deleted/altered posts is like to see them.

[Guest]

 

This was a board warning issued to Crescentise, because she posted something Xander didn't like/found problematic.

Specifically, in the same topic as the rest of us regarding SSLs. Hm. Are we not allowed to make posts staff don't agree with?

[Garnascus]

Like I said unless I actually see what was deleted I cant tell if sander was right or not to remove it, and I implore anyone not to make a snap judgment, at least not until we have all the evidence clearly played out.

[enkas]

There you go. Though this is probably going to be deleted too.

 

Warning! This post contains, not in order:

- Pointed, personal criticisms. Not ad hominem. Please understand the difference.

- Underlining of rational flaws, formatting not included.

- Sexual things. Hopefully they're not too traumatic for the more innocent among us.

- My opinions. I do hope I am allowed to express them, good forum moderators. Just delete my post if I'm not, there's a good sport. This may not be 'OOC or deadchat' but I assume making remarks about peoples' characters should be done lightly or not at all on forums, now that you both exist. But I'll take my chances.

Let's give you vagina-toting players a taste of the other side. The side where you actually have a vagina, and don't like mashing it against another in fits of passion - not IRL, not on the internet, and certainly not through some other third medium.

We're all nerds, here. Nerds from all walks of life. We all come together to play a 2D spessmen game with overly complex mechanics, but this server also prides itself on being HRP. This is distinguished from MRP, as I understand, striving to write persistent stories through your own characters as well as their interactions with others, and possibly even wider arcs if you're feeling ambitious. Some of us are interested in using different areas for inspiration for all of that. That's cool. If you haven't been living under a rock, you've probably been smacked by Sammac's huge military boner. That's okay. More detailed, specific lore, even if it is a bit dry for my tastes. Jack Fractal is all about synthetics. Cool. I'm a bit more into that, but not nearly enough to even play one. I personally like playing afflictions and aliens. But, see, while I might not share you guys' interests so much, I'm not staunching your flow of creativity.

I'd rather staunch the flow of virtual semen. Fetishes, I mean. Different strokes; I know. Some of you - a lot of you apparently - jerk it to two girls together. O-Okay. Even though the thought irks me, being as straight as the Stanford Linear Accelerator, I won't hate on you for merely having it. I won't hate on you for it just as much as I won't hate on you for other, more uncommon fetishes. But you know one thing that drives people like me - and others - away from this server? Not random criticisms of characters. That will always happen. Good luck erasing that. It's when people start using ss13 as a medium for pursuing these fetishes, and end up staining everything with their love juice. Explanation to come shortly.

"Good golly gosh, Cres, scandalous, are you suggesting that I etc. etc." Yep. ERP is banned, as we all know. Regardless of that, people push the boundaries. Some choice players choose Aurora, of all places, to pursue it. They might not do the nasty on server. Regardless, they are jarring and immersion-breaking in their IC conduct.

XanderDox wrote:

... inquired enough into other characters personal lives enough to know they are both mentally suicidal and lesbian.

That's the 'beautiful' thing about SSLs. You don't need to. Everyone and their mother aboard the Aurora knew Karenza Rivette was regularly spacing herself - I don't remember the exact manner of suicide, but this seems your MO, Callum, since Martin Anderson - over lesbian drama. It's like the old vegan joke. How can you tell if X is a lesbian? She will tell you/hit on you/have it in her flavour text. As if this shit actually happens in real life; you don't get a workplace full of women constantly waving rainbow flags at you. And don't talk to me about 'oh ss13 isn't supposed to be like real life' - I sure fucking hope it is, with regards to lesbianry. Space isn't an excuse for your character to become defined by their sexual orientation. If it is, then I'm even more glad I've stopped playing here.

And speaking of Martin Anderson. Your opinions might somewhat align with mine, Dreamix, but don't think I've forgotten the Allison Kingsbury saga. You made the most generically bad character I could possibly dream up, the kind that everyone jokes about. She stuttered. She had something to the effect of 'shy, young, pretty long-haired girl' as her flavour text. She was underaged for her job as a chemist. And she got caught up in the most ridiculous relationship drama I've ever been a part of. She wasn't the suiciding one as I recall, but her behaviour was equally dumb. From what I've seen, you don't play her anymore. Good on you. Keep doing not-Allison things, yo.

Back to you Callum, you horny little upstart, you. Every single one of your characters is used to pursue ERP. The only time I've personally thought 'oh, cool' about your roleplay was when Esmee was being a devoted assistant to Niklaus, and credit mainly goes to Xander for that. Esmee Scott and Berislav Tarik. Karenza and Tina. Ezra and god who was it again I can't even remember. Are you interested in non-erotic creative writing at all? Jesus fuck, just. Wank before an ss13 session, please.

Draculabot, you, too, have been stained with the love juice. Rukia was a lesbian, and did some questionable things. You made Rebecca a highly promiscuous practitioner of polygamy, and then dared get involved with Karenza and Tina. She had her own kind of breakdown, too. You're a great writer, man (as many Aurorans are), but you irritate me on a personal level. After all of that, why are you surprised that people are prejudiced? It's your own fault. I wish you'd use your talent on writing a character that is not promiscuous nor a lesbian. And quit it with the 'I'm a gurl!!11' comments. Dracula is a male vampire. That's why you get misgendered. Get over it, it's not a big deal.

XanderDox wrote:

@Dreamix, that kind of stuff really does not happen...

.. I have played here for a year this coming August, and I do not believe I have ever ONCE, not ONCE seen an SSL. I have never seen...

You're saying 'I won't accept your anecdote', but then you try to use your own to push a position in the thread. If people are ignoring you, this might be why. To clarify myself to the point of redundancy: I'm not personally attacking you.

SSL might stand for Suicidal Space Lesbian, but I believe it encapsulates more than just that. It connotes poor, ERP-driven roleplay. It connotes an absurdly unrealistic female-human-dominated station, with regards to heads of staff as well as certain departments (something more minor, but stands out to me because muh diversity). It connotes IC-OOC cliques in which women shut themselves away in their department and whisper whisper whisper repellently amongst themselves. It connotes disrespect to those who are really suicidal, or lesbians. No, not chucklefuck self-murdering, that's just abuse of game mechanics because you're frustrated. I care when you choose the 'easy', tasteless route (ERP mongering didn't work today? Better fucking kill myself out of frustration) to representing these character traits. And about lesbay - I don't associate SSLism with lesbay so much, personally, but you can see the overlap.

Let's talk about the overlap, shall we? Why do you think people have been accusing Tina Kaekel and Daniela Baranova of this sort of thing? Well, for one, there was that one bad choice the players made together. Sure, I get that. You don't deserve bad rep for that- oh god what is this what is happening are all the sayings really true? I will explain. You see, I personally have tried to roleplay with both characters multiple times per head.

I wanted to get in on this legendary psych roleplay with Daniela. I made an appointment, but of course my character was shoved to the side for one of her old (female) friends. Introduced to her through a third party; another time, another character? What fun roleplay it is being ignored for yet another ol' (female) medbay buddy. Ghosting over her sometimes, I would chance upon intimate chats with yet another old female friend in the psych room, complete with high-school bosom-buddies type behaviour with the dick drawing. From this experience, Rechkalov, why are you surprised? It's not some baseless vendetta perpetuated by your enemies. You earned it.

What about Tina? She's supposed to be this desperate young Wiccan lady, needy, clinging to help and attention from just about anyone. These qualities should make her easy to approach and roleplay with, right? Goodie, time to learn more about pagan stuff- oh. What's that? You're having a little tiff with the local Mary Sue? Okay, let me help. Don't want to open up? Hm, no, you wish to ostracise me, and whisper in delicate agony with her instead. Ugh. Everyone - remember when Tina was a cool Wiccan lady with codependency issues? Me neither. People made her sound so cool, but all I experienced of her was lesbian drama, while her ceremonial knife and needy attitude remained as untouched as the average ss13 player.

You guys could write me off as being butthurt that I didn't get to roleplay properly with your glorious selves. You could say all those times were coincidences. But in light of my own experiences, and the fact that I'm not the only one to think this, you may want to... introspect. A little. And masturbate. Not at the same time. I haven't even mentioned everyone. This post is already monstrously huge.

From most of what I've seen, those afflicted with the SSL epidemic aren't interested in actually exploring the female psyche, or proper lesbianry, or what actual mental illness looks like. All you seem to want is to find others like you to help each other jerk off. All I want is for you lot to take it elsewhere - to mediums or servers that actually support this shit. If there's any LRP cancer happening around here, in my opinion, it's this right here.

And if I moan about you in deadchat (as I dared to once with someone else), and you get offended, good. It might shame you into roleplaying better.

But, you know, that's not going to happen. Because nobody cares what I think. And because girl-on-girl is soOOOooo hawt.

P.S. Let me take a moment to advocate sex IRL. I imagine that ERP is inferior. You guys should try it.

[Garnascus]

Alright, well first off thanks a bunch for posting that. Quite franky after reading it and thinking about it some i do see quite a lot of personal attacks and R rated material in it. We can argue all day on the validity of the arguments but the way the content is presented seems to be against the rules to me. If I'm wrong in open to discussion but for the moment I dont see a problem with xander removing it.

[Guest]

@Enkas, Evidence is not deleted within Staff Complaints, so its fine.

You are all welcome to make posts staff don't agree with, but you are /not/ allowed to make posts that violate forums rules, I don't care if they're great for discussion, or the funniest jokepost ever, if it's against the rules, its going.

Also, a more correct word for delete, is bin. Few posts are actually deleted from the the forums, most are put into the archive or forum bin for future reference or returning if deemed not in violation of the rules.

Censorship is a thing, if someone is going to post something with vulgarity, attacking players and their characters, then they are going to be given a warning, and their posts removed.

[Garnascus]

I mean I can understand the frustration at a comment being deleted but I really feel like I have to agree with xander here. I can say as a trial server moderator I dont get to pick and choose when I enforce server rules and when I dont. If I see someone breaking the rules in game i speak to them and go from there, no exceptions.

[K0NFL1QT]

None of Cresentises post is a personal attack. And while vaguely defined 'vulgarity' is against the rules, you don't have to delete a post for daring to suggest that some players are way too focused on garnering intimate relationships. Grow up.

[Guest]

@Enkas, Evidence is not deleted within Staff Complaints, so its fine.

You are all welcome to make posts staff don't agree with, but you are /not/ allowed to make posts that violate forums rules, I don't care if they're great for discussion, or the funniest jokepost ever, if it's against the rules, its going.

Also, a more correct word for delete, is bin. Few posts are actually deleted from the the forums, most are put into the archive or forum bin for future reference or returning if deemed not in violation of the rules.

The majority of those outraged are players that left at the Cassy incident, and I find that laughable, censorship is a thing, if someone is going to post something with vulgarity, attacking players and their characters, then they are going to be given a warning, and their posts removed.

 

"You can post whatever you want, but if I as an individual interpret that it's wrong, then I'll do everything in my invisibly bestowed power to shut down a conversation under the guise that it's 'breaching the rules.' What is meaningful discussion anyway? Oh, wait, I just realized I don't like thing, better delete it."

"I find it rather hilarious that the people who were upset belonged to X subgroup, therefore their argument is invalid BECAUSE they belonged to that group and I am infallible in my dealings."

I hope to god you never get into community management with that attitude. This kind of staff misconduct, an adoption of a 'holier-than-thou' attitude and obvious power-tripping is disgusting. And I completely disapprove of it.

[Garnascus]

Can we not devolve this into personal attacks too? Its why that other thread got locked. Honestly I really think you're reading too much into it 1138. He said posts against server rules not what he interprets or doesn't like.

[Guest]

Exactly what Garnascus said. If I hadn't removed it, another staff member would have. People are welcome to their own opinions and thoughts, I really don't care. But once they start violation very clear rules, they are going to have action taken against them.

EDIT: I'm starting to think a majority of those upset didn't actually READ all of what was posted, it is a CLEAR attack on multiple players and characters, and includes multiple sexual undertones, I don't see how any of you could view those as acceptable, especially when the rules clearly outline it's not. By joining the forums, you agree to follow the outlined rules, by violating them, you accept that you will receive some sort of punishment.

[Frances]

While Cresc' post was said in a non-nice way and was more likely to lead to people rabidly defending themselves than facing criticism, I personally feel like deleting users' posts just because they're sassy isn't the direction I want to see this community going. It's definitely part of a specific managerial school of thought, but I'd like people to consider why exactly certain communities don't allow these kind of posts.

As for Xander (and to some association Jakers, can't speak for the two other forum mods as I never saw them post), I'm definitely under the impression that they like to see the forums being run a certain way (mostly as what I've described above). You guys should be lenient with them because they're new to the job, but do consider why they've been chosen and what they've set out to do as well.

(Also, I'm 95% certain that the reason why forum mods were made in the first place is because none of our current admins want to deal with drama on the forums - and potentially become hated as a result. That's a random thought and isn't meant to imply admins do a bad or good job on the forums, so take it as you will. My personal opinion, however, is that admins should be able to man up, dive into issues, and face ensuing criticism. But maybe they're all too busy.)

[Garnascus]

The problem with being lenient is you get accused of cherrypicking and playing favorites, the problem with not being lenient is.....this happening.

[K0NFL1QT]

Not all criticism directed at a named individual is an attack. To say that is the equivalent of responding 'muh feelings' when someone provides a detailed analysis and judgement of your merits and faults. And in this case, one that clearly took a long time to write and formulate. To simply press 'delete' and go on with nothing said is completely disrespectful.

It's criticism, and it's necessary. If a post is against the rules, state openly that it is so and quote the offending portions. That way the community knows what's been done and why. You don't just delete it and all references and responses to it, as if it never happened. You're not Auroras secret Info Police. A forum mod is a glorified spam deleter. Myself and a couple others thought that the post contained some good and valid points worth discussing, but in completely doctoring the thread and silently erasing the post and everything related to it you completely shut down any reasonable debate we could be having over the actual points.

[Garnascus]

Id argue you shouldn't be arguing and debating outside forum rules in the first place.

[Frances]

Id argue you shouldn't be arguing and debating outside forum rules in the first place.

The forum rules were written very loosely, in part to specifically allow that type of goon/4chan debating. Of course, staff can decide to be more severe, but the only relevant rule here is "don't be a dick", which is an extremely vague guideline. Also, let's not forget rules are just the means to an end, not the end themselves.

[Garnascus]

I dunno France's im kinda conflicted. I agree that the rules are kinda loose but the content of that post seemed pretty R rated to me. Do we need 4chan/goon style debating? Is it unreasonable to ask for some decency in discussion? I see your point though, I do think the post had some good points which unfortunately had to be deleted. Its not exactly something in celebrating ill be honest.

[Guest]

Not all criticism directed at a named individual is an attack. To say that is the equivalent of responding 'muh feelings' when someone provides a detailed analysis and judgement of your merits and faults. And in this case, one that clearly took a long time to write and formulate. To simply press 'delete' and go on with nothing said is completely disrespectful.

It's criticism, and it's necessary. If a post is against the rules, state openly that it is so and quote the offending portions. That way the community knows what's been done and why. You don't just delete it and all references and responses to it, as if it never happened. You're not Auroras secret Info Police. A forum mod is a glorified spam deleter. Myself and a couple others thought that the post contained some good and valid points worth discussing, but in completely doctoring the thread and silently erasing the post and everything related to it you completely shut down any reasonable debate we could be having over the actual points.

 

1. We're not glorified spam deleters, spam is actually handled by Skull132 or SoundScopes, because it generally goes along with an IP Permaban from the forums. We are here to enforce the rules.

2. We are not required to publicly give the reason why a reply is removed, we simply must inform the poster of the comment that its been removed and why, this is either done via PM, or within the warning system.

3. Silently erasing? Shall we make an announcement to the entire community every time something needs to be removed?

[Frances]

2. We are not required to publicly give the reason why a reply is removed, we simply must inform the poster of the comment that its been removed and why, this is either done via PM, or within the warning system.

The reason why you're not required is because a lot of posts can be deleted for very asinine reasons.

When a group of posts from multiple users gets deleted, a courtesy "cool off guys, these messages were deleted because of X and X" is appreciated. Otherwise, you're not really doing a very good job.

What would also be cool would be to go the extra mile and work with the people whose posts you're deleting to explain to them how they could reformulate their posts in a manner you find acceptable. Otherwise, it's very discouraging for some people that in the end may be well-intended.

[Guest]

Once Tenenza wakes up and is able, we will be looking into this and reviewing the currently locked topic involved.

[Tenenza]

An additional linked thread has been created for the compilation of posts regardings XanderDox's actions. The binned posts themselves will be either moved there, or restored and a copy left there at the request of their posters.

Linked thread: http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=3263

[K0NFL1QT]

Has there been any resolution yet?

[Guest]

Yes, there was also a delay in posting it here because of a hacker that managed to find a bypass to our system.

Now the person in question was only given forum mod as a trial, looking at the actions taken and how specific situations were handled the admins decided to end the trial.

Xanderdox is no longer a forum moderator.

At the request of their posters, the binned posts may also either be moved http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=3263&start=10, or will be restored and a copy placed in the linked thread.