[Resolved] Ban Request: TechnoKat

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Lets slow down here and remember that New York isnt actually the capital of New York.

Jboy from the contents of your posts you continue to drive home additional issues that you have with Technokat-san. You've meandered through several loosely connected points and im only going to home in on the original issue presented.

Garnacus is not the sole member of administration. His opinion is important and valid but it does not automatically justify a ban.

You said yourself that you were an antagonist. You presented yourself as a threat to another antagonist. This antagonist reacted at a level reasonable to ensure you ceased to be a threat. He acted arguably consistent with the situation while keeping the spirit of fair play by allowing your body to be recovered. The only way I could agree that it was out of line is if you were not making yourself a threat.That it was gank is supposed to be: unfair curbstomping. Once again, you consented to retaliation being taken against you when you threatened the safety of another antagonist.

I have to ask, what could technokat-san have done to stop your behaviour ic without killing you? What did you want to happen?

[hivefleetchicken]

To be blunt, can I ask why this ban request even existed in the first place? I don't see a real reason.

To me, it sounds like a valid traitor put themselves on the radar of another traitor's possible threats, leading said worried traitor to want to remove said threat, which then turned into a fight to the death, and the initiating traitor prevailed.

...So, what's the deal? Was there not enough 'RP' before one of you died?

Let's look at this whole shebang with an analogy, based on what I've heard happened from both parties.

Jboy, imagine you're standing in a close-to-empty mall, preparing to rob some unsuspecting person. You see a crazy man walk over to a lady across the building from you, and viciously gut them without relent. What do you do? Call security? Run away? Pretend like you saw nothing? Of course not! You throw a rock at him to get his attention and shout, "GEE, YOU SURE DO LIKE STABBING PEOPLE, HEHEA ," and when he runs up and stabs you too like the crazy person he is, you get mad?

Sure, you got stabbed, but you put yourself on his radar. You /forced/ your way into his path, let him acknowledge you as a threat, and then waited on the sidelines like nothing had happened. Like hell he /wasn't/ going to hunt down this person who has:

A. Seen too much,

B. Is not only a threat to call security but is a threat themselves with their antag items

C. Is readily waiting right there for Techno to conveniently ambush and kill

And, to be fair, maybe Techno could have spiced it up. But only had the conditions been more lenient. With an ERT about and Ana Issek taking control of security, it seemed like this round had gone full Hackie-Mhan-plays-five-nuke-op-wizards-event.

There's a point at which RP can no longer happen to its fullest because if you stay still to type a *me for more than ten seconds, you will get left behind, killed, or trapped by firelocks, and it seems like TechnoKat felt he was in that situation. Whether or not his judgement to see the round as that was false or not, I can't say, but it seems like the round was adequate to those standards, from what you two described of it.

So what you died, it's just a game, you two!It really breaks my heart to see you guys bickering over a single death, and it makes me very slightly suspicious that maybe Jboy is just mad because he didn't get to win as a traitor. But that could just be my time on Archangel speaking.

So, in total, suck it up, guys. It's one death, it wasn't even canon, and the dead person even got cloned, because one of you was nice and faithful enough to let the other back into the round.

[Jboy2000000]

I never made myself a threat. The only thing I did all round was walk outside of cargo as the quartermaster, send Kate one PDA message containing nothing but codes (that should only have proved I could have been an asset to him rather than a thread), and made one, small message on the radio in the bathroom. I was never a threat, I could understand how my radio message made me look like a threat, but Techno was already obviously planning to kill me before I made the radio message, because he had a shotgun ready to kill me before I even made it.

As to what I rather would have had happen? I don't care so much that I was killed, I can accept being killed by antags, or for being an antag, or a mix of both, as long as theres a reason, but like I said, I didn't make myself a threat, and even if my radio message did make a me a threat, he was already ready to kill me before I even did that. I would rather have him talk to me, since it was more likely I would have been an asset to him and whatever he was doing, it wasn't really believable that I was an immediate thread that needed to be Cobane'd in the bathroom at that time it happened.

 

To me, it sounds like a valid traitor put themselves on the radar of another traitor's possible threats, leading said worried traitor to want to remove said threat, which then turned into a fight to the death, and the initiating traitor prevailed.

 

Fight meaning "one opened the door on and put three shotguns shells into them while they were typing?" Like I said above, I didn't make myself a threat, the only did I maybe made myself a threat, was when I said one thing over the radio, and Techno was outside the door, ready to kill me anyway.

[TechnoKat]

Again, you're denying that you didn't get into the whole antag situation and you had nothing to do with it. You just simply, casually strolled around next to the other obvious traitors during red code, sent an obvious but in your words "not suspicious" PDA message with the whole pass phrase, hid around in many areas, using voice changer, which is the sole reason of silencing+putting you back up in round with less information, so the agent won't ruin the career of my character.

I'll repeat again, no, if you weren't going to start giving out information through radio, I wouldn't even give a shit about you, period. You were a threat, you were in my way, you weren't my target, I got you back up and running, and you still cry about it. ERT was around, Ana the fucking lovable robust catbeast was leading security, why in the world would I want to bicker with them.

"but the rp!", honestly? You weren't going to go nice if I was holding you gunpoint, you were another agent with items that are dangerous.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

As to what I rather would have had happen? I don't care so much that I was killed, I can accept being killed by antags, or for being an antag, or a mix of both, as long as theres a reason,

 

It's good that we can hone back in on the original issue. The argument then, is if he was justified in killing you. I would argue, as would Hive-kun and Techno-san, that he was justified in his action. You got yourself involved in with an antagonist, and they took action against you.

Emoting the firing of the shotgun wouldn't have made any difference, and I refuse to believe that such a thing would satisfy you. I also refuse to believe that him running in and stunning you instead to hold a long speech before the execution would satisfy you. I could be swayed on either of these points, but based on long term observation of your behaviour, these are assumptions I am very comfortable in making.

Let me expand on the reasoning.

 

I would rather have him talk to me, since it was more likely I would have been an asset to him and whatever he was doing

 

I would easily accept this if time were not very short for Technokat-san. Everyone has agreed that an ERT was on the station, and that the situation was very tense. It is completely reasonable to say that he didn't have the luxury of time to tie you up, lock you in the toilets, then monologue at you demanding you join him on his evil scheme.

To argue otherwise is demanding that Technokat-san interpret the situation exactly like you did, and not make his own assessment of the situation and threats. That is not fair to anyone involved; he is an independent entity that is capable of making differing conclusions.

 

like I said above, I didn't make myself a threat, the only did I maybe made myself a threat, was when I said one thing over the radio, and Techno was outside the door, ready to kill me anyway.

 

From both of your previous statements I can't easily believe this. You don't know when Technokat-san became aware of your shenanigans, that's projecting what you believe he did and treating it as fact. I would have to go back through the thread but unless I am mistaken he already gave his version of the timetable of events, in which you were acting extremely suspiciously, sending out coded PDA messages, and otherwise acting very shady which risked the cover and very safety of the other antagonist.

[TechnoKat]

Like I said above, I didn't make myself a threat, the only did I maybe made myself a threat, was when I said one thing over the radio, and Techno was outside the door, ready to kill me anyway.

 

Now that's just wrong. I stood waiting until you do something, I didn't expect the voice changer to slander Victor, hence I moved in. But then again, how did you not even "see" Victor stalking Keener? Or is it because you didn't even mind another agent moving close to you and you thought "oh my plans will always work ehehe".

[Jboy2000000]

I sent one PDA message, that never even got replied to. It was even a "coded message" it was the Syndicate code phrases that I copy and pasted from my notes. The only time I can recall seeing Techno's character personally, was him walking away from the bridge, and me walking up the command hall. Which shouldn't really be suspicious of a QM, its their job to supply the station. If it's code red, I obviously shouldn't be using the radio, but people wander the station all the time in red. If him seeing me outside of cargo and a PDA message that only serves to prove with both work for the exact same people is enough to justify killing someone, why don't nuke ops duke it off as soon as the round starts and kill each other? If thats how it works, they should probably do that, lest one of them be a snitch.

 

Like I said above, I didn't make myself a threat, the only did I maybe made myself a threat, was when I said one thing over the radio, and Techno was outside the door, ready to kill me anyway.

 

Now that's just wrong. I stood waiting until you do something, I didn't expect the voice changer to slander Victor, hence I moved in. But then again, how did you not even "see" Victor stalking Keener? Or is it because you didn't even mind another agent moving close to you and you thought "oh my plans will always work ehehe".

 

My character didn't automatically know you were a syndi member, OOCly, I knew you had to be a tator, ICly, you could have just been so schmo who got tangled up in Kate's powerplay. If that was the case, why would she treat you any different from any other random passerby in the halls? Unlike you, I didn't have any IC reason to believe you were an agent.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Both of you seem to have presented all of the information you had available, and your own interpretations of what this information meant to you during the situation. I would advise that we all wait for input from a member of administration to read through what has already been discussed, and decide if they need more information on a particular instance, or just a further explanation from either one of you on something.

Continuing to go back and forth beyond the rails of discussing the situation that lead to this ban request is harmful to the attempt at dialogue itself, and becomes increasingly more personal and visceral.

[TechnoKat]

A detective going in and talking with a "terrorist" gets some treatment when "negotiations" can be done. Nobody from civilian roles are supposed to walk around red code and hide around, "hide", which you kept doing and caught my attention that cargo was always empty. I didn't know you were traitor OOCly nor' even ICly, until the whole PDA message, which got me interested in stalking you. By then, it was all simple to understand you were the one with a voice changer and probably other dangerous items, which I never risk messing up. The moment Victor heard slander about him and Kate, was unexpected. Victor silenced Keener and since she was not part of any target at all, since ERT and Issek was around, fully armed, mugged her ID contents and called medical to clone.

[TechnoKat]

Dunno what's so fucking ganky when you try and contribute to the round by actually making conflicts and shit, but yeah. Apparently when you disatisfy a snowflake, you'll get punished for every reason they can find. If you try and complain about one? There'll be whole "im staff so im always right" mentality and find a lackluster of explanation why said player shouldn't be dealt with, kinda pissed off I am.

I was noted by Callum during a cult round I got antagbanned, hence' I can't get converted and takes me out of round instantly. Baka/Scopes were the banning ones(though idk why scopes is looking at ban requests as dev) but okay, or maybe someone else with a boner to satisfy them banning someone. Placed ban was on 11th of October, with no warnings given to me or explanation, just simple "notes" they call it, which can be looked by staff only. "final ban, lowrp and gank lololol".

I kept requesting to look at the notes, but so many are quiet.

[Garnascus]

Dunno what's so fucking ganky when you try and contribute to the round by actually making conflicts and shit, but yeah. Apparently when you disatisfy a snowflake, you'll get punished for every reason they can find. If you try and complain about one? There'll be whole "im staff so im always right" mentality and find a lackluster of explanation why said player shouldn't be dealt with, kinda pissed off I am.

I was noted by Callum during a cult round I got antagbanned, hence' I can't get converted and takes me out of round instantly. Baka/Scopes were the banning ones(though idk why scopes is looking at ban requests as dev) but okay, or maybe someone else with a boner to satisfy them banning someone. Placed ban was on 11th of October, with no warnings given to me or explanation, just simple "notes" they call it, which can be looked by staff only. "final ban, lowrp and gank lololol".

I kept requesting to look at the notes, but so many are quiet.

 

Techno I know you have next to no faith in them but staff complaints exist if you think a decision was made against you unjustly and urban appeals exist if you are actually in the wrong. If you are still awake and in game in three hours from now when I get home from work I will personally through each and every note/warning/ban on your account and go from there.

[TechnoKat]

The problem I have now is I don't have those so called "notes" and I don't know the actual staff that banned me without notifying me whatsoever(because i dont think scopes can handle these sort of stuff due to him being a dev), or even updating this ban request. Also note, what I know is that it's a final ban apparently, I won't bother appealing unless there is a way.

I'm currently away myself, if you can wait six hours for me to get on.

[Garnascus]

Unfortunately ill be asleep by then but I'm sure you will be on at some point when I wake up and we can discuss all this then.

[Guest]

(though idk why scopes is looking at ban requests as dev)

I am an admin as well, do not forget that.

http://auroraserver.freeforums.net/thread/1418/moderator-applications-administrators-closed-jul2014 Last post in that thread.

http://aurorastation.org/staff.php

[TechnoKat]

(though idk why scopes is looking at ban requests as dev)

I am an admin as well, do not forget that.

http://auroraserver.freeforums.net/thread/1418/moderator-applications-administrators-closed-jul2014 Last post in that thread.

http://aurorastation.org/staff.php

 

so that gives you the right to ban someone without notifying/explaining, if what callum said was right about you and baka doing so.

[Guest]

No and infact mistakes and miscommunication happen, I was under the impression that you HAD been spoken too about it before the ban was placed, it was also the time when the server went down due to DDoS and we were switching server box's.

I can admit that was some error in communication in that event, but I have no had a single message from you saying "Hey I got banned but no one actually spoke to me about it, could you tell me what is going on?" Not one single message, instead what we got was you acting out on the server and on the forums in forms of being snarky at staff and an increase in shit posting.

So I want to ask, why didn't you talk to me like an adult?

From your actions recently I wouldn't want to help you, I actually started getting fed up of your snarky attitude and your behavior on the forums from what? A ban you didn't get spoken to about because of inter-staff communication errors, rather than contacting me on the forums/skype/byond/server, you decided to lash out.

Do you realize how fucking insulting it is to have someone go around saying things like you have, when you haven't even attempted to contact me about it?

You called me "just a dev" when I'm the one person keeping the server physically running, going through all the logs of things that people find unfair, managing the website so that you can have this place to do whatever, and helping people on the server with problems, errors, griefers, the FFF the AFAF or whatever. You had no problem when Skull was HeadDev doing it, but oh no wait now that it affected you you bring the question of is this person really allowed to handle bans due to their title of dev (Completely ignoring that it says "Head" before it and that I have been listed as an administrator for over a year now)

So I ask again, why didn't you talk to me like an adult?

[TechnoKat]

No and infact mistakes and miscommunication happen, I was under the impression that you HAD been spoken too about it before the ban was placed, it was also the time when the server went down due to DDoS and we were switching server box's.

 

good to know.

 

I can admit that was some error in communication in that event, but I have no had a single message from you saying "Hey I got banned but no one actually spoke to me about it, could you tell me what is going on?" Not one single message, instead what we got was you acting out on the server and on the forums in forms of being snarky at staff and an increase in shit posting.

 

I was off that time for a week after the ban was placed by then. Yes, I might've been snarky towards staff, but what's wrong with my forum shitposting? Did I somehow manage to make subliminal messages insulting you or something? Or is this ban request full of shitpost, you say?

 

So I want to ask, why didn't you talk to me like an adult?

 

See, that's when I didn't believe you're supposed to be handling bans and sort, so why should I talk to you? I didn't know anything about developers taking over ban requests.

 

From your actions recently I wouldn't want to help you, I actually started getting fed up of your snarky attitude and your behavior on the forums from what? A ban you didn't get spoken to about because of inter-staff communication errors, rather than contacting me on the forums/skype/byond/server, you decided to lash out.

 

Not entirely correct, there's much more you(as in, entire staff) can actually improve on.

 

Do you realize how fucking insulting it is to have someone go around saying things like you have, when you haven't even attempted to contact me about it?

You called me "just a dev" when I'm the one person keeping the server physically running, going through all the logs of things that people find unfair, managing the website so that you can have this place to do whatever, and helping people on the server with problems, errors, griefers, the FFF the AFAF or whatever. You had no problem when Skull was HeadDev doing it, but oh no wait now that it affected you you bring the question of is this person really allowed to handle bans due to their title of dev (Completely ignoring that it says "Head" before it and that I have been listed as an administrator for over a year now)

 

Also good to know, keep up the work, though I don't know why Skull is relevant here now, because I wasn't playing in Aurora that long time ago. Again, why would I contact you when I was more skeptical the whole situation being handled by a dev? Now you made a full explanation, that's fine. That's all I fucking wanted.

Now for the lackluster of explanation about my ban is all I'm looking for. If anyone could, PM me those notes which is entire ban reason apparently.

[Frances]

I get that people are pretty upset at each other (I'm not implying it's without reason, I really don't know at this point).

However, I'm kinda puzzled: despite that, does anybody actually gain anything from being mean or aggressive?

I wish we could recognize that we're all trying to solve the same problem, and that it's going to be easier to accept and solve disagreements if we make an effort to be kind to each other.

[Guest]

Yes we (The staff) have things to work on and it's been stressing me out which is part of the reasons why mistakes/miscommunication were made, at least on my part.

The time of your ban is also around the time you got an increase of reports of shitposting. My analytical mind automatically put 2&2 together as the increase of shitposting came from the frustration of being banned. If it wasn't then sorry there is that lack of/miscommunication between players and staff that has been made known recently.

I will send you a PM with the information you requested.

With all that said I would like to close and resolve this specific thread as the action has been taken and you have a way of contacting someone to find out what is going on.

I apologize for the fuckfest this has been.

--Frances why you ninja post

As for what we are gaining by being aggressive, frustration out of our system.

Techno is frustrated that he didn't get contacted before the ban was placed.

I'm frustrated that I'm a little overworked due to problems that will be solved soon (See: http://www.aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=4035 & http://www.aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=50#p40366 )Aurora isn't the only server I manage the hardware for and this network downtime has brought a lot of hassle at the wrong time.

Might not be the most productive way of sorting out an issue on either end, but we are getting somewhere (I hope)

[Guest]

Alright, long overdue, Techno got antag banned for actions in a round while this complaint was active, the thread wasn't updated.

I'm marking this as resolved.